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Thread: PS2 vs Dreamcast Graphics

  1. #3541
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118 View Post
    Honestly I'm not sure the polygon counts are what's having the biggest impact on performance on Dreamcast. If you pay attention a lot of those drops happen when there's any kind of Transparency somewhere on screen or about to come on screen. Once that transparency is no longer on screen, the frame rate jumps back up.
    Youre probably right on that. The dc had the most accurate transparency method in the generation and was self sorted but it was really slow. You will probably chop your framerate if you cover your screen with a transparent quad or two. Thats why it had that special punch through mode where it was said it was nearly as fast as its opaque performance. Had other troubles like having huge polygons cutting across multiple tiles on screen would also affect performance. Not using mipmaps could also hurt if the texture is huge.

    I remember someone on the homebrew front tried to do bloom and tried to mostly offload it directly to the gpu(pvr)which is very cool as it frees up the cpu big time. He actually based it on a document written by tri ace describing how bloom worked on ps2 in star ocean. He quickly found while doable it takes a big toll, though there might be way to speed it up further.

    Based on:"Practical Implementation of SH Lighting and HDR Rendering on PlayStation 2" GDC 2005
    (http://research.tri-ace.com/)

    Feature

    Everything is completed on PVR.

    It operates at a maximum of 30 fps.

    hdr01.png

    Creates a 128 * 96 bloom texture in a single render using a 512 * 128 work buffer.

    PVR can only draw 32 * 32. Arrange them in order to create a frame. The drawing order is determined at the time of initialization.
    KOS draws from the left side to the right side of the frame. Therefore, you can use the left side, which has already been drawn, as the texture of the polygon on the right side.

    hdr02.png

    1. Render the frame into a 640 * 480 texture.

    2. Extract the high-brightness part from the frame.
    Reduce to 128 * 96, extract RGB (128-255) pixels by inversion / addition / inversion, then add the same texture to double the color. The RGB (0-255) pixels are complete.

    3. Apply Gaussian blur.
    Move to the right and use the previous texture. Apply a bilinear filter, shift it by 1 pixel, semi-transparently combine it, and apply a 3 * 3 Gaussian blur.
    Reduce this and apply 3 * 3 blur again, and repeat to create three textures of different sizes.

    4. Completion of bloom texture.
    Make the three textures 128 * 96 size and add and synthesize. Use this for Bloom textures.

    5. Tone mapping and final rendering
    The color of the first 640 * 480 frame texture is doubled by additive synthesis, and RGB (0-127) is changed to RGB (0-255).
    Bloom texture is added and synthesized from above, and it is completed.

    Point

    PVR is not good at translucency. Use fewer tiles!

    Use user clips so as not to straddle tiles!

    Since it is not a Twiddled texture, do not perform bilinear filtering as much as possible!


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    Ranger Mission 2004 Atomiswave/Dreamcast game has a nice look, one of the most advanced to use Dreamcast Powervr2. Try later Faster than Speed.

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    Ferrari F355 challenge ( more info) - dreamcast

    Last time I did the cars, player car was almost 2,500 triangles with out tires, highest lod cpu car was almost 1,900 triangles without tires. Now its the tracks turns. interesting high detailed tracks, especially coupled with the fact the game has been hacked to force 3rd person view even in splitscreen. Finally got around in doing this.

    Motegi - 16,241 triangles


    monza - 44,159 triangles


    long beach - 42,814 triangles

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    I love the Dreamcast but the controller really let's it down more than anything in my opinion, one analogue stick which gets slippery fast, a terrible d pad and generally uncomfortable design. The graphics are worse on the Dreamcast but the VGA cables definately make them cleaner than the PS2.

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    polygons Per frame.

    Half Life ps2/DC
    unreal tournament impossible 7k per frame as SegaRetro said
    Quake 3 revolution (Quake 3 Arena 10-15k per frame ?)
    Soldier of fortune DC/PS2
    Fur Fighters
    MDK2
    4x4 evolution
    stunt gp
    Faster than speed
    Evil Twin ?
    MotoGP 2000

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    RingOut 4x4 - Sega Naomi

    Very pretty game, a few stages uses render to texture reflection, rare to see on dc based hardware. In general the cars are 3,000 triangles (at highest low lod about 1.3k triangles) about, always 4 of them on screen except for boss stage. stages seem to range from 5k to over 20k triangles. Hi lods have interior modeled.Naomi lib game.

    High LOD ( Cinematics, gameplay when camera is very close, Replays) : 2,992 triangles


    Low LOD( gameplay when camera is far): 1,296 triangles


    Stage ( its actually missing some small props so its likely slightly higher) : 22,122 triangles

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    Mobile Suit Gundam : Federation vs Zeon - Naomi/Dreamcast

    Another naomi lib game. This one was easier to extract. In general the mobile suits range from 2,000 to 2,700 triangles. If they use separate weapons they have a seperate posed hand with the weapon included. Stages are very low around 3k to 4k triangles in general. The ships and mobile armor range from 1,3k to 2.6k triangles.

    Gundam rx-78 : 2,333 triangles


    Red Comet Zaku 2 : 2,422 triangles


    GunCannon - 2,598 triangles


    Zgok - 2,524 triangles


    Zeon ship - 2,428 triangles


    Space ground stage - 3,814 triangles


    Canyon stage - 3,167 triangles

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    Can't rep but thank you!

    Life?!...What console is that on?

    [PSN] Segata-S //[Switch] FC-SW 3892 5228 2895 //[XBL]Dogi99

    Remake Geist Force!


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    World Series Baseball Naomi / Super Major League - Naomi
    Its based on Sega Wow entertainments World Series Baseball 2k1 on dreamcast, uses same models but slight differences. That game is then based off wows dynamite baseball. Pretty game but very annoying to get the models, Extreme amount of Lods for every body segment then morphing for hands + lod for it.

    Baseball player ( highest lod) : 2,570 triangles



    Stadium : 14,519 triangles

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    SlashOut - Naomi - Amusement Vision

    Nice detailed stages visible from end to end. Regular enemies sub 1,000 triangles. 4 player game. a pain , has alot of lod models.

    Slash ( player character , High lod) : 1,555 triangles


    Stage 1 , Ciliego Cathedral : 15,913 triangles


    Stage 1 , Boss room : 7,306 triangles

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    Sega Marine Fishing - Dreamcast/ Naomi

    Nice looking game though slightly higher than i anticipated . The underwater part the meshes are probably duplicated and layered on top of each other because ingame the used a separate layer to fake water caustics. The assistance and boat driver pretty much have the same body as the fisherman. naomilib game

    Fisherman (player) - 2,447 triangles


    Mako shark - 1,198 triangles


    Stage 1( coral reef, below water) - 45,412 triangles


    stage 1( coral reef , above water) - 8,390 triangles


    fishing boat - 1,730 triangles


    fishing lure - 482 triangles

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    Dynamite Cop : Asian Dynamite - Naomi

    Extremely well modeled despite the modest polygon counts. Wasnt able to pull the stages or enemies but its probably not too different from the player characters. Reskin of Dynamite Cop on dreamcast

    Wolf Hongo ( cutscene model) - 4,995 triangles


    President daughter (cutscene model) - 3,681 triangles


    Bruno(player) Jihad costume - 1,048 triangles


    Caroline (player) jianshi costume - 970 triangles


    Jennifer - 994 triangles

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    Mazan : Flash of the blade - Naomi - Namco

    Was always impressed with this game, nice presentation wouldnt look out of place on ps2. The actual polygon counts are very low but namco made sure to give most human models fingers and modeled faces always, very clever modeling. Faces use morph targets, even faces on monsters.

    Main Character(light bringer?) - 1,312 triangles


    Final Boss(soul stealer?) - 1,260 triangles


    Maiden saved first stage - 1,633 triangles


    Boss 1( sister of saved maiden, Cat demon) - 1,106 triangles


    Spider Demon - 1,314 triangles


    Headless swordsman - 842 triangles


    small demon of hell - 684 triangles


    river segment of second stage - 6,264 triangles

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    Sega Bass Fishing (dreamcast version)

    Fisherman(player) - 1,971 triangles


    boat - 1,656 triangles


    lure -922 triangles


    special lure - 832 triangles


    area 2 topside - 29,313 triangles


    area 2 underside - 22,610 triangles


    area 09 (topside+underside+ reflections) - 28,944 triangles

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    Ring : terrors realm - dreamcast

    I thought i had posted this up months ago but i guess not. so here you go. Despite being based off the ring series the nemies are actually demons and apes.

    Meg ( real life) - 1,108 triangles


    Meg ( Virtual Reality) - 1,156 triangles

    NPC (virtual reality) - 1,050 triangles


    Regular enemy( demon) - 910 triangles

    Sadako (final boss) - 846 triangles


    CDC building( lobby) - 11,080 triangles


    cdc room - 5,976 triangles


    Rooftop( final boss) - 6,710 triangles

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