Quantcast

Page 183 of 187 FirstFirst ... 83133173179180181182183184185186187 LastLast
Results 2,731 to 2,745 of 2798

Thread: PS2 vs Dreamcast Graphics

  1. #2731
    Death Bringer Raging in the Streets Black_Tiger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Vancouver
    Age
    43
    Posts
    4,676
    Rep Power
    105

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SonicTheHedgehog View Post
    Some people when comparing the Megadrive/Genesis against the SNES and the DC against the PS2 forget that they were released 2 years and 1 month and 14 months before those 2 rival consoles. If the Megadrive/Genesis had been launched in Nov 1990 instead of Oct 88 and the DC in March 00 instead of Nov 98 they probably would of outclassed the SNES & PS2 in every way. Mabee not by a huge margin but both the MD/GEN & DC would of had the edge. It seems Sega's problem was as much with timing as it was with anything else.

    What do people on here think the MD/GEN & DC would of been had they launched later? I think the DC CPU would of been up clocked to 300mhz to match the PS2 as well as 32mb main ram. The GPU prob would of been like the KYRO gpu with 16mb vram instead of 8mb. Audio ram probably would of been doubled and they probably would of used DVD's instead of GD Roms although probably not had DVD movie playback.

    I think the MD/GEN would have had a 10mhz clocked CPU with a few more audio channels and double the audio ram aswel as sprite scaling, more colours on screen from a larger colour palette aswel as larger sprite sizes with more on screen and double the vram.
    The Neo Geo was released 6 months before the Super Famicom. There's much more to consoles' success than release dates. You're also asking if Sega's consoles would have neen more successful if they weren't cheaper than the competition or if they were even more dxpensive than them.

    The 32X and Sega-CD already exist and didn't put Nintendo out of business.
    Quote Originally Posted by year2kill06
    everyone knows nintendo is far way cooler than sega just face it nintendo has more better games and originals

  2. #2732
    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    British Columbia
    Posts
    3,798
    Rep Power
    62

    Default

    Finally back. As this will be the last 1.5 months of me posting in this thread(for now), I gotta do my last batch of multiquotes with posts as far back as November. Then I'll show you guys what I've discovered in the meantime.
    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

  3. #2733
    Nameless One SonicTheHedgehog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Cardiff, Wales
    Age
    36
    Posts
    76
    Rep Power
    9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Tiger View Post
    The Neo Geo was released 6 months before the Super Famicom. There's much more to consoles' success than release dates.
    The Neo Geo was released at more than 3 times the price of the Megadrive/Snes which both launched at $199.99. I was asking about the potential specs of the 2 Sega machines had they been released later and stated that i thought they would of outclassed the 2 competitors from a specs standpoint. I never said they would of sold more/less or been more or less successful just that they would of ouclassed the 2 competitors from a tech standpoint.

    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Tiger View Post
    You're also asking if Sega's consoles would have been more successful if they weren't cheaper than the competition or if they were even more dxpensive than them.
    Not once did i ask that so stop making things up. I asked what the specs would have been had the release dates been later.

    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Tiger View Post
    The 32X and Sega-CD already exist and didn't put Nintendo out of business.
    What has that got to do with a hypothetical late 1990 specced MD/Genesis or a March 2000 DC that i was asking about? Please don't derail the thread. The Playstation outsold the N64 and the PS2 outsold the XBox. The Wii also outsold the Xbox 360 & PS3 so i nor anyone else i assume needs to be told that the success of a console isn't determined by specs.
    Last edited by SonicTheHedgehog; 01-28-2020 at 09:15 AM.

  4. #2734
    Death Bringer Raging in the Streets Black_Tiger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Vancouver
    Age
    43
    Posts
    4,676
    Rep Power
    105

    Default

    The Genesis was cheaper than SNES. Launch prices don't mean anything when consoles fon't happen to launch at the same price.

    The timing that actually happened allowed Sega to gain steam and have a stronger library before competition arrived.

    If the Genesis came out around the same time as thd SNES and TG-16 still never took off, it wouldn't have hone anywhere and Sega would have soon exited the console business.
    Last edited by Black_Tiger; 01-28-2020 at 10:35 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by year2kill06
    everyone knows nintendo is far way cooler than sega just face it nintendo has more better games and originals

  5. #2735
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingSports Talker
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Posts
    44
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SonicTheHedgehog View Post
    I think the MD/GEN would have had a 10mhz clocked CPU with a few more audio channels and double the audio ram aswel as sprite scaling, more colours on screen from a larger colour palette aswel as larger sprite sizes with more on screen and double the vram.
    What are you basing this on? That Sega wanted to deliver your specs, had planned to, but just couldn't? And 2 years would have gave them time to do it? It also could have gone completely in the opposite direction; they could have released a slightly upgraded megadrive (larger master palette) and everything else as-is. What they 'could have' and what they 'would have' are two very different things. I mean, competition is what drives advancement in technology. PCE started it, MD was a response to it, and the SNES was a response to both.

  6. #2736
    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    British Columbia
    Posts
    3,798
    Rep Power
    62

    Default

    Time to bring back this can of worms

    Quote Originally Posted by Cloofoofoo View Post
    Sigh you're clearly wrong . To even get pod to work at 60 fps it requires codebreaker codes to change the physics timers. What more proof do you need? This is it's gamecode! It doesn't run 60 fps without hacks to unlock the frame rate code AND CHANGE the physics timers.
    Meaning the physics calcs was hardcoded for 30 fps and changing that to 60 fps makes it run too fast without adjustments.
    How about this,

    I'm not gonna say you are wrong about this or vise-versa, but what do you think of all the sources online that says the game runs at 60 FPS, both when it was first released and people looking at it retroactively?
    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

  7. #2737
    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    British Columbia
    Posts
    3,798
    Rep Power
    62

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SonicTheHedgehog View Post
    Some people when comparing the Megadrive/Genesis against the SNES and the DC against the PS2 forget that they were released 2 years and 1 month and 14 months before those 2 rival consoles. If the Megadrive/Genesis had been launched in Nov 1990 instead of Oct 88 and the DC in March 00 instead of Nov 98 they probably would of outclassed the SNES & PS2 in every way. Mabee not by a huge margin but both the MD/GEN & DC would of had the edge. It seems Sega's problem was as much with timing as it was with anything else.

    What do people on here think the MD/GEN & DC would of been had they launched later? I think the DC CPU would of been up clocked to 300mhz to match the PS2 as well as 32mb main ram. The GPU prob would of been like the KYRO gpu with 16mb vram instead of 8mb. Audio ram probably would of been doubled and they probably would of used DVD's instead of GD Roms although probably not had DVD movie playback.

    I think the MD/GEN would have had a 10mhz clocked CPU with a few more audio channels and double the audio ram aswel as sprite scaling, more colours on screen from a larger colour palette aswel as larger sprite sizes with more on screen and double the vram.
    I know you already explained this, but the Genesis didn't need better specs to be a success. The Genesis sold more than the SG-1000/Master System/Sega-CD/32X/Saturn/Dreamcast combined. It also sold more than the N64 and GameCube.

    What you said for a late 1990 Genesis sounds about right. 12-bit colour palette, 4x the colours on-screen, more PCM channels, double the VRAM and RAM, more background layers, transparency effects, larger sprites.

    Perhaps someone else can answer you about a March 2000 Dreamcast.
    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

  8. #2738
    The Future Is Yesterday Hedgehog-in-TrainingRaging in the Streets SegataS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    My Chair
    Posts
    4,321
    Rep Power
    54

    Default

    Keep the DC launch as 9/9/99. One thing Stolar did really well with the marketing leading up to launch and there is a reason why that date is still remembered. It was brilliant. What I would change it make it the global release, not just the US release. An extra year for development on games. 1 extra year to beef up the hardware a little bit. Maybe not by much but a little. I won't get into dual analog or DVD even tho I would wish them to be added.

    Life!? ... What console is that on?



    [PSN] Segata-S //[Switch] FC-SW 3892 5228 2895 //[XBL]Dogi99


  9. #2739
    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    British Columbia
    Posts
    3,798
    Rep Power
    62

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    No, but a game likes Conkers Bad Fur Day on the OG Xbox could
    Could you find a video to show if this is the case or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by SegataS View Post
    Feel this way about Metroid Prime 3, Mario Galaxy and Sonic Colors on Wii. In HD they could be a launch 360 game. Now, of course, these released years after 360 launched but put them in 2005 they could maybe pass. GOWII is a def showpiece for PS2.
    Kinda ironic considering the Wii was released a year after the 360



    Quote Originally Posted by SegaAMD View Post
    there are several sources, this one says 800 polygons (in max lod 1.200) far from 4,000, not even soul reaver 2 Raziel achieves that count.

    https://www.ign.com/articles/2001/01...andrew-bennett
    Don't start strawmaning. I showed with several captures the count was 3300.


    If you think 3D Ripper is giving me too high of polycounts, lets take a look at the PS1 version that I captured with 3D Ripper.




    Against a wall with no detail. 25,000 PPS



    The character in the PS1 version is 300 polygons. Does this seem reasonable for a PS1 game? Absolutely.




    At the canyons. 54,000 PPS



    The exact same polycounts.


    Now lets look again at the Dreamcast version.




    Against the same wall. 400,000 PPS



    The vastly improved character. 3300 polygons.


    Are you really gonna tell me you see no difference in the polygon density?:

    PS1:



    Dreamcast:

    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

  10. #2740
    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    British Columbia
    Posts
    3,798
    Rep Power
    62

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SegataS View Post
    Keep the DC launch as 9/9/99. One thing Stolar did really well with the marketing leading up to launch and there is a reason why that date is still remembered. It was brilliant. What I would change it make it the global release, not just the US release. An extra year for development on games. 1 extra year to beef up the hardware a little bit. Maybe not by much but a little. I won't get into dual analog or DVD even tho I would wish them to be added.
    Segata I feel you likely have reasonably good vision, can you see a difference in polygon density between these screenshots?


    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

  11. #2741
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingRoad Rasher
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    309
    Rep Power
    5

    Default

    I'm also a fan and soul reaver is one of my favorite games but we need to be scientific here to get to the truth, the main advantage of the PS2 SR2 was precisely to make 3000 polygon chars, I am surprised you believe that the Dreamcast version of Soul reaver 1 has more polygons than the PS2 SR2. with 20K% certainty that this capture is not accurate as the devs themselves put Raziel from DC version as a char of approximately 1k polygons. 1,200 Poly to be more precise is the number found when extracting the model directly from GD rom
    Last edited by SegaAMD; 01-28-2020 at 08:44 PM.

  12. #2742
    Nameless One SonicTheHedgehog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Cardiff, Wales
    Age
    36
    Posts
    76
    Rep Power
    9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Tiger View Post
    The Genesis was cheaper than SNES. Launch prices don't mean anything when consoles don't happen to launch at the same price.
    You're not really making much sense now. And they both launched at pretty much the same price of 189 & 199 dollars.

    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Tiger View Post
    The timing that actually happened allowed Sega to gain steam and have a stronger library before competition arrived.

    If the Genesis came out around the same time as thd SNES and TG-16 still never took off, it wouldn't have hone anywhere and Sega would have soon exited the console business.
    You don't know that and again this has nothing to do with the question i asked. You're wrongly making an assumption about WHY i asked the question when instead im just looking for answers to the question.

    Quote Originally Posted by turboxray View Post
    What are you basing this on?
    Assuming Sega were told to delay the design by 2 years and to improve it as best they can. And again no assuming wether that would be the best idea ever or an atrocious idea im just interested in hearing peoples opinions on what the specs might be.
    Last edited by SonicTheHedgehog; 01-28-2020 at 09:04 PM.

  13. #2743
    Death Bringer Raging in the Streets Black_Tiger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Vancouver
    Age
    43
    Posts
    4,676
    Rep Power
    105

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SonicTheHedgehog View Post
    You're not really making much sense now. And they both launched at pretty much the same price of 189 & 199 dollars.



    You don't know that and again this has nothing to do with the question i asked. You're wrongly making an assumption about WHY i asked the question when instead im just looking for answers to the question.



    Assuming Sega were told to delay the design by 2 years and to improve it as best they can. And again no assuming wether that would be the best idea ever or an atrocious idea im just interested in hearing peoples opinions on what the specs might be.
    When the SNES launched the Genesis was much cheaper. If it wasn't, it would have faired much worse.

    When the SNES launched the Genesis had a library of 100 - 200(?) games. If it didn't it would have faired much worse.

    If, when the SNES launched, your Genesis launched as well. But instead cost more and had a library of 8 games and no Capcom ports at launch or going forward... with SFII about to happen... Sega would have been out of the console business within a couple years.

    They would have had no name or brand recognition, as a generation of kids will have grown up with only NES and the word Nintendo would be synomynous with video games.

    Why would kids or parents take a risk on a strange system from a "no-name" company that doesn't look any better than Nintendo's?
    Quote Originally Posted by year2kill06
    everyone knows nintendo is far way cooler than sega just face it nintendo has more better games and originals

  14. #2744
    The Future Is Yesterday Hedgehog-in-TrainingRaging in the Streets SegataS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    My Chair
    Posts
    4,321
    Rep Power
    54

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post
    Segata I feel you likely have reasonably good vision, can you see a difference in polygon density between these screenshots?


    Yes. Is that Soul Reaver on PS1 and DC? Blind guess.

    When I say beef up the hardware a little. I imagine like 24MB in ram rather than 16. Not expecting a CPU change or anything.

    Life!? ... What console is that on?



    [PSN] Segata-S //[Switch] FC-SW 3892 5228 2895 //[XBL]Dogi99


  15. #2745
    Nameless One SonicTheHedgehog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Cardiff, Wales
    Age
    36
    Posts
    76
    Rep Power
    9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Tiger View Post
    When the SNES launched the Genesis was much cheaper. If it wasn't, it would have faired much worse.
    Thats you're Opinion that im neither agreeing or disagreeing with and it's not an answer to the question i asked.

    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Tiger View Post
    When the SNES launched the Genesis had a library of 100 - 200(?) games. If it didn't it would have faired much worse.
    Thats you're Opinion that im neither agreeing or disagreeing with and it's not an answer to the question i asked.

    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Tiger View Post
    If, when the SNES launched, your Genesis launched as well. But instead cost more and had a library of 8 games and no Capcom ports at launch or going forward... with SFII about to happen... Sega would have been out of the console business within a couple years.
    Not once did i mention price, library size or what games would come to the machine. And none of what you just mentioned is an answer to the question i asked.

    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Tiger View Post
    They would have had no name or brand recognition, as a generation of kids will have grown up with only NES and the word Nintendo would be synomynous with video games.
    Thats you're Opinion that im neither agreeing or disagreeing with and once again it's not an answer to the question i asked.

    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Tiger View Post
    Why would kids or parents take a risk on a strange system from a "no-name" company that doesn't look any better than Nintendo's?
    I can give you many reasons why they would and wouldn't but i was asking a question that you still havn't answered.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 2 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 2 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •