PS2 vs Dreamcast Graphics

[Armoured Priest]

It is, except for the bit where the PS2 controller has 10 buttons whilst the Dreamcast has only 4 face buttons + 2 analog triggers, and only 1 analog stick where as when the PS2 took off games requiring more than one analog stick became commonplace.

The Dreamcast is a good console, but it died before it's generation really took off and the other consoles have far too many games for me to even put the Dreamcast anywhere near the other consoles libraries.

Does beg the question, if the DC had survived, and Sega felt a need, was there anything stopping them from doing an updated controller...its not like Sega hadn't done this very thing twice before (6-button controller, and Nights Saturn Analog controller). Sony did it as well, the original PS1 controller had no analog input at all.

[sheath]

Does beg the question, if the DC had survived, and Sega felt a need, was there anything stopping them from doing an updated controller...its not like Sega hadn't done this very thing twice before (6-button controller, and Nights Saturn Analog controller). Sony did it as well, the original PS1 controller had no analog input at all.

No this is absolutely impossible. Sega was stuck with the Dreamcast as is complete with small VMUs and single analog stick four face button control pad. It is impossible to upgrade consoles with newer peripherals.

[Splatterhouse5]

Are there really that many consoles that have a library so much better than the Dreamcast?

IMO the Dreamcast produced in 3 years a library that's better than the N64, X-Box and Game Cube combined. Maybe that's just the fanboy in me speaking, but Sony fanboys are everywhere, so...

Combined? Ooofff, that is a helluva fanboy opinion. I had fun with a DC BITD, but I would only prefer the DC library over the N64 library.

[sheath]

Given that since the N64 launched most games are in the same genres, and the Dreamcast hit on all of them quite nicely, I don't think it is necessarily a fanboy position to prefer the Dreamcast library. God of War is nothing new, at all, it isn't even a particularly well playing game. The only thing the Dreamcast lacks is five versions of every game with a different subtitle. I generally prefer the originals in any given series, with rare exception.

Then there are the thematic differences in the libraries of the PS2 or the Dreamcast, which I find much more difficult to define. I would say the Dreamcast is the last Arcade-Action console, and the PS2 is the first mainstream/core console. The former emphasized challenge and gameplay, the later emphasized cinematic quality and whatever theme was popular that year (usually dark/noir urban violence).

[Bottino]

Combined? Ooofff, that is a helluva fanboy opinion. I had fun with a DC BITD, but I would only prefer the DC library over the N64 library.

Well , opinions are always subjective, but i cannot see any scenario where the libraries of both Game Cube and X-Box beats the DC one. That, of course , is based on my taste for gaming.

Can i get some hardcore arcade action with those other consoles, while having - as sheath mentioned before - an line-up of truly unique games of different types to play?

If the answer is NO, then type: The cake is a lie. The Dreamcast isn't.

If the answer is YES, then type: Sega Orbi 2014Free Mr.Sega.

Given that since the N64 launched most games are in the same genres, and the Dreamcast hit on all of them quite nicely, I don't think it is necessarily a fanboy position to prefer the Dreamcast library. God of War is nothing new, at all, it isn't even a particularly well playing game. The only thing the Dreamcast lacks is five versions of every game with a different subtitle. I generally prefer the originals in any given series, with rare exception.

Then there are the thematic differences in the libraries of the PS2 or the Dreamcast, which I find much more difficult to define. I would say the Dreamcast is the last Arcade-Action console, and the PS2 is the first mainstream/core console. The former emphasized challenge and gameplay, the later emphasized cinematic quality and whatever theme was popular that year (usually dark/noir urban violence).

This.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

I wouldn't say the PS2 emphasized entirely on cinematic qualities. I mean there's plenty of Arcade and Action titles available on the PS2, a lot of the same ones that are on the Dreamcast for that matter. Honestly had the Dreamcast survived I'm sure we would have seen ports of GTA, Resident Evil 4, Non Square Enix JRPGs, etc. The Dreamcast was simply dead before a lot of those games started coming out.

And again I wouldn't really say the Dreamcast was the last console to give a good focus towards action and arcade style games. Both the Gamecube and the Wii have a good inclination towards that style too.

[sketch]

And again I wouldn't really say the Dreamcast was the last console to give a good focus towards action and arcade style games. Both the Gamecube and the Wii have a good inclination towards that style too.

I always felt like the Gamecube was the spiritual successor to the DC. Small, compact case, four ports on the front, non-DVD/proprietary disc format, super clean graphics, and arcadey games.

The "clean" aspect of the DCs graphics is what always appealed to me. The PS2 had more horsepower as I understand it, but to look at the games, the DC games always looked better (crisper, better textures, better polygons) to my eye. The GC had that same effect (I preferred its graphics to the PS2's as well).

[sheath]

Since this thread is obviously going to repeat the same cycle. Some more vids from the Dreamcast Appreciation thread:

Silent Hill 3 Cutscenes (Actual PS2 Footage?) From 4:39:


Silent Hill 3 actual Gameplay: @1:40


Metal Gear Solid 2 Shell Core Gameplay:


What do the three videos above have in common? Indistinct texture mapping with lighting effects to supplement the lack of detail, reasonably high detail main character models.

Shenmue 2 Gameplay:


Headhunter Gameplay:


I would also like to say that the Draconus and Berserk videos I posted earler seem to be clearly better in everything texture mapped and lit polygonal 3D aside from possibly some of the main character's facial animations.

God of War is scripted throughout, so it is too bad that there isn't a Dreamcast game that amps up the polygon counts through eliminating gameplay like that. Shenmue basically invented quick timer events, and even it doesn't jump graphic engines during those scenes. I wish the rest of the Soul Reaver Trilogy was also released on Dreamcast, I'm sure Defiance would have made for an interesting comparison.

Sony fans will never recognize that God of War is a Legacy of Kain Defiance rip off through and through.

[o.pwuaioc]

The GC had that same effect (I preferred its graphics to the PS2's as well).

Well, the GC was actually more powerful than the PS2.

[HalfBit]

Alright, first. Glad this thread is turning out XD
Second: specs. Dreamcast CPU can run 10.5 million polys per second but the gpu limits it to 7 million.
So, if gran tourism 4 ran at 4 million, with effects etc. than dreamcast could probably run it. Although, longer loading probably because of ram limits.

[sheath]

Actually, Dreamcast loading would be shorter and more frequent due to RAM limitations. For a Racing game this shouldn't factor though, only for open city games and sandbox games. The GD-ROM drive is actually quite fast as well at filling up the 16MB RAM + 8MB VRAM. I would say that it should be able to fill both in less than 12 seconds, which would be a land speed record for PS2 Sandbox games.

[sketch]

Well, the GC was actually more powerful than the PS2.

I've read articles arguing both sides (saying PS2 or GC was more powerful). They are very different architectures as I understand it, with the PS2 being difficult to utilize properly. However, regardless of which is more powerful (I'm certain the tech-oriented around here can debate that for days on end), I can only tell you what my eyes say, which is that the GC graphics looked "cleaner" to me (generally speaking), in much the same way the DC graphics looked "cleaner". The PS2 graphics never looked that great to me on the whole, and it wasn't just a matter of "power". The PS2 was likely more powerful than the DC, as it came out later, but I still preferred the DC's output.

[Yharnamresident]

No arguing necessary, the GCN is more powerful in almost every aspect. I think the PS2 has higher bandwidth(?), but other than that, it is surpassed in every category.

[Team Andromeda]

Yeah, that has nothing to do with the fact that those games are years older

The DC systems is older, so it was always going to lose out and be less powerful . GT3 A Spec came out a year after F355 and wiped the floor with F355 on every technical level

Are you comparing a 2005 release with games from 2000?

A Spec came out in 2001 , MGS 2 demo came out with ZOE in 2001 , DMC also came out in 2001 and well those were 3 games that started to show off the power of the PS2 . Also, no one talks about it but ESPN International Track & Field in 2000 really was the 1st to show off the higher number of polygons on the PS2 and completely destroyed the DC version and also SEGA own Athlete's game too.

By the time the PS2 "took off" with actual software that needed Dual Analog sticks, it was for games with shoddy AI cameras that forced the player to play Actor and Director. FPS wasn't the PS2's strong suit for YEARS remember, and pressure sensitive face buttons are a complete joke.

The lack of buttons on the DC pad and the lack of a 2nd Stick was a total cock up on SOJ part and everyone knows it deep down . I hate the PS2 pad though

Look at how good Le Mans 24 Hours looked on Dreamcast four years earlie

4 Years ? GT 3 came in out in '2001' a year after and unlike Le Mans run at 60 fps . Will give big credit to Le Mans for dynamic lighting and weather which was away ahead of its time and something not even the likes of Forza 5 handle

I would also like to say that the Draconus and Berserk videos I posted earler seem to be clearly better in everything texture mapped and lit polygonal 3D aside from possibly some of the main character's facial animations.

DC was brilliant at textures but lost out in Polygons . Also the PS2 can handle Shenmue like games and one only needs to play SEGA's own Yakuza 1 and II to see that - Yakuza 2 is a stunning technical achievement on the PS2

[Gogogadget]

Are there really that many consoles that have a library so much better than the Dreamcast?

IMO the Dreamcast produced in 3 years a library that's better than the N64, X-Box and Game Cube combined. Maybe that's just the fanboy in me speaking, but Sony fanboys are everywhere, so...

I'd say it beats out N64 but for some reason I just hate that console, X-Box and Gamecube i'd rather have over a Dreamcast.

The Dreamcast is a good, unique console but I just see it as the weakest link if it's part of that generation, mostly due to the fact that it never really got it's fair share and was discontinued far too soon.