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Thread: PS2 vs Dreamcast Graphics

  1. #61
    Master of Shinobi Bottino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post
    I just don't see anything wrong in providing a reality check for stuff like that.
    Saturn and DC are usually more blindly defended in this board than the Mega Drive itself and, over the years, I developed a "problem" with that. Other consoles libraries are often entirely dismissed to praise Saturn or DC and I don't see the point.
    There's nothing wrong with that, but it looks like it's a felony to write an carefree opinion like mine, even with myself joking about it.

    As far as i know, there's not much on those consoles that sparks my attention for them and i wouldn't trade the three of them combined for my Dreamcast; and i'm not dismissing anything , but i simply don't have the time( or money ) to own every console made by man as i can barely play the ones that i do own and enjoy the most. That's just my way of approaching things and my opinion about the Dreamcast ( which is my favorite console after the Mega Drive ).

    Is it biased? Sure, but i'm not trying to be the owner of the truth here nor i'm implying that everyone has to agree with me. As i stated before, opinions are subjective and should be treated that way.

  2. #62
    I remain nonsequitur Shining Hero sheath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post
    I sense a lot of fanboysm here...

    To say that you prefer the DC library over any other given console is one thing... Maybe a very Sega passionate opinion, but still valid as an opinion.
    [snip] Xbox and Gamecube, as I have not compared their libraries with the Dreamcast and generally consider them self sufficient. [/snip]
    I think my statement about the Dreamcast library was a little more nuanced than "it is better, [Console Y]'s library sucks".

    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post
    Now, it's a mindless comparison IMO but since sheath once again showed his ultimate hatred against Sony/Playstation...
    DC vs PS2:
    Racing is worlds better on the PS2. Some stuff like F1 and Rally games (which are very important for many racing fans) is heavily one sided in favor of the PS2.
    In quantity, and if you have a wheel with pedals, the PS2 definitely has more quality Racers in each Racing-genre type. Daytona Online is an acquired taste, mainstreamers can't handle the default analog sensitivity. Sega GT is hit or miss with people, I enjoy it quite a bit. MSR is usually praised. F355 Challenge should be in the running for best Racing simulator of the generation, its only minus is ONE CAR type. Hydro Thunder, Speed Devils, TXR, and others were good in the same sense most racers are good. Could somebody prefer Dreamcast Racers over PS2 ones and still be a rational human being? I think so.

    Maybe not if we are exclusively comparing the games with the best Racing Wheels plus Pedals for each system, the PS2 probably has more of those than I have ever seen used or talked about. I used my Interact non-force feedback wheel with pedals for a good line time but with stock controllers or third party controllers I think the Dreamcast has an edge over PS2 at least for a few years after the Dreamcast's discontinuation. Those analog triggers, and the MUCH HIGHER analog sensitivity of the Dreamcast stick, made playing Dreamcast much more simple with the stock Dreamcast gamepad than with any wheel I sampled.

    The less said about the types of PS2 Racers mainstreamers exclusively talk about the better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post
    Fighting is worlds better on the PS2. Tons more of great 2D games and the same for 3D.
    While I might argue that the Dreamcast is better for racers in some ways, it is with the rest of the genres that I have to point out, 2 years versus 11+ years of software support is an absurd comparison. I personally draw the line of comparing anything on the Dreamcast to the PS2 at the 5 year mark, when the Xbox 360 launched anyway. Even then, I have frequently compared physics and AI of F355 challenge to Forza 3, and man F355 is a freaking contender (again, just one car).

    On to Fighters. Again thanks to Sony I can only speak for the US library, and thanks to the absurd popularity I can't speak for every Fighter ever released. Crap versus quality is the first thing that comes to my mind for the PS2. Emulation and compilations fill the crap category mostly, but at least most of them are considered "Arcade perfect" today right? Ugh. At least PS2 controllers didn't have lag to further sully that vaunted status. PS2 Joysticks are also plentiful and very competent.

    From what I have seen only 3D Fighters were in the mainstream and retail eye during the PS2's nominal life (2000-2005). If somebody were to tell me that the PS2 received every 2D and 3D Fighter ever made in various compilations I would not doubt it. I also would not be surprised if my informant could not tell me if there were glitches in video, audio or gameplay introduced by said compilation. I would be even less surprised if two or three enthusiasts of PS2 Fighter Compilations completely failed to agree whether any version of any game was actually Arcade perfect.

    I would be happy to be proven wrong, I do change my opinions. It seems like the Dreamcast is the last platform to see actual Arcade ports/adaptations of 2D Fighters before the emulation onslaught began. I can't speak much for Capcom or SNK 2D Fighters on the Dreamcast. I figured Marvel vs Capcom was a very good conversion, I liked it in the Arcades and didn't notice any different. MvC2 was designed for Naomi, so obviously it ran well on Dreamcast, but I didn't care for it as much as the first version. Street Fighter Alpha 3 and Street Fighter 3 has failed to appeal to me in any version. I think we have discussed before that Alpha 3 on Dreamcast shares the same flaws to Arcade perfection as the Jpn Saturn version (resolution, sample frequency).

    For 3D Fighters, Virtua Fighter 3tb was blasted by the media, but I have never seen a concise or comprehensive comparison with the Model 3 original that proves any flaws. Multi-tiered environments, relatively accurate motion captures martial arts moves, great frame based animation, this game was well ahead of its time. Dead or Alive 2, I thought, was very good for what it was aiming at. DoA2 is better than a ton of other "me too" 3D Fighters out there to be sure. I have seen hardcore 3D Fighter fans claim that the counter system is broken, and breaks the game, but I have yet to see that happen. The counters are frame based, and high-mid-low based. From what the average gamer is expected to be capable of, this is just a step lower than what Virtua Fighter 2 and 3's counters require, which is far from easy for most.

    Soul Calibur is really not all that Namco/Sony fans claim. The single player modes can be beaten by tapping weak and strong attacks while not even looking at the screen. This is NOT an exaggeration. Supposedly with two dedicated players Soul Calibur becomes much better, I just haven't seen it.

    On to the PS2, Tekken Tag Tournament. I have seen TTT praised to no end, I have also never seen anybody play it for long. I have played it briefly and cannot stand it for the same reason I cannot stand the first three Tekken games. Dial a combo is an obvious sign of technical inferiority when compared to a frame based system like Dead or Alive or Virtua Fighter. Tekken hadn't grown up by the time the PS2 launched, and I haven't bothered to look at the later released sequels. I have one of them because it has the Arcade versions of Tekken 1-3 playable. The Soul Calibur games on the PS2 are just as flawed as the Dreamcast/Arcade games, but uglier and with more characters (yay).

    I haven't delved much past the mainstream stuff on the PS2 though, they are the ones that stand out in the sea of PS2 releases after all. In a library that massively hugely large there must be something seriously worth playing. Powerstone, a launch Dreamcast title, has yet to be beaten for uniqueness, polish or seriously solid multi-tiered 3D Fighting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post
    Action Adventure is waaaaay better on the PS2, some sub-genres are totally absent on the DC.
    This is the PS2's mainstay genre, stuck like a broken record in dark/noir themed games or Japanese fantasy. Agreed. My inclusion of what few similar Dreamcast games was simply to compare graphics and sound, which I find very comparable (aside from resolution, which fails the PS2 frequently).

    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post
    FPS is worlds better on the PS2.
    FPS sort of jumped around on consoles. Xbox basically took that generation and the next, while some console exclusives were fan favorites on other platforms. Time Splitters is a Sony fan favorite. Soldiers of Fortune, Unreal Tournament 3, Quake 3, and Outtriggers are pretty much all the Dreamcast has to offer. The Clancy games and Hidden And Dangerous are actually quite good despite their poor graphical optimizations though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post
    TPS is worlds better on the PS2.
    This might require a thread of its own. Over the entire 11+ year PS2 library? Sure, why not. Defining "Third Person Shooter" would be necessary first. Obviously though, the PS2 has a freaking metric ton of these with various poor to okay standards for gameplay mechanics, with GTA on the extremely poor end.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post
    Beat'em ups are worlds better on the PS2.
    Defining Beat em ups is necessary before this can even be discussed. I consider the Devil May Cry and God of War games Action Adventure for example. Bouncer, Beat Down, Final Fight Street Wise, and what few other straight Beat-em ups on PS2 I can think of off hand are far inferior to Dreamcast Beat-em ups like Dynamite Cop, Zombie Revenge, or especially Shenmue's beat-em up aspects. If we are including DMC and God of War, I far prefer Soul Reaver on Dreamcast to any other version, Berserk and Drakonus to almost any modern game with similar "Zelda 3D" mechanics.

    I am still trying to give God Hand a solid chance at best beat-em up ever, all I see so far is wanna-be Tarrintino garbage and quasi-Action-RPG upgrades.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post
    3D platformers is better on the PS2, hands down.
    None of the PS2's 3D platformers are anywhere near as fast, nor do they require as much controller accuracy, as the Sonic Adventure games. In quantity I agree this is a mainstay PS2 genre. Finding a game that is actually especially worth playing in that genre on the PS2 requires what I consider excessive love for cinematics, "humor" or some other theme instead of the main game itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post
    Whatever RPG is waaaay better on the PS2.
    If you mean to say that Grandia 2 or Skies of Arcadia are obviously inferior to any PS2 RPG, I wish you luck. jRPGs aren't my thing really, but Square-Enix RPGs were old to me after the NES days. I'd say the Xbox has a better argument for best RPGs of that generation, and they are all Bioware RPGs. Again, not really a genre I see in very high esteem. Obviously jRPGs is a big deal for the PS2 though, and I do not intend to dismiss that. My main point is, how does "series X" really negate what few jRPGs the Dreamcast saw in its artificially short life.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post
    Scrolling Shooters are better on the PS2, several great exclusives.
    Side/Vertically scrolling? Hasn't the Dreamcast been kept "alive" by these almost exclusively over the years? Did the PS2 ever get Ikaruga? Eh, I'd like to know what you mean here, but I have been tired of this genre for a very long time and don't really intend to argue the Dreamcast's overall library superiority anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post
    Flight games are much better on the PS2.
    Aero Wings and Aero Wings 2 along with Airforce Delta and a couple of really bad flight games versus the entire PS2 library might fall short, I agree. For simulation I would always compare the Aero Wing games against anything of that generation at least, I even compare them to Microsoft Flight Simulator. So far I haven't found any Namco Flight game superior in anyway to Air Force Delta either. I keep trying, because I love to be hooked by this genre, but Namco's offerings just don't seem to hit that sweet spot for me. Obviously I am an absurd fanboy now, because everything Namco makes in any genre is gold.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post
    Light Gun games are slightly better on the PS2.
    There are obviously, more light gun games on PS2. Virtua Cop 2 and House of the Dead 2 are pretty much it for Dreamcast, and I wouldn't try to claim that they are better than whatever Time Crisis versions are playable on PS2.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post
    Compilations are a no-go on the DC and there's tons stuff on the PS2.
    Yep, aside from Atari and Williams stuff available on previous consoles, the Dreamcast wasn't really a compilation system, thank goodness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post
    ...
    So, uh, you must be hugely biased or totally mindless to ditch the PS2 library... You can always rise the fanboy cards of "quality rate" or "Oh, this one Sega game is better than the other 100 games in the same genre" or "When both were alive the DC had the edge in this genre" but it will never change the fact that the PS2 library is actually way more rounded, has tons more of great exclusives, tons more of arcade ports...
    You may hate the hundreds of "cinema" and "atmospheric" games that the PS2 has, it's OK. Just don't imply that there aren't also hundreds of arcade-style games in its library, 'cause it's a huge lie.

    I was also kind enough to consider all EU/JP-only DC games valid for the comparisons 'cause otherwise it would be even worse.
    I also chose to ignore the fact that the peripherals support completely suck on the DC in comparison with the other consoles and mostly to the PS2. In genres like Flight and Racing sims you'll NEVER have on the DC the same sort of highly precise peripheral options that you can have on the PS2, for an example.
    At least for the Dreamcast CDRs are readily available from all regions. Ditching the PS2 library is stupid, obviously.

    Generally, for me, I would prefer to go back to the Dreamcast than any other later platforms for Arcade-Action genres. That would include 3D Fighting games, Racers, and the more unique genre blenders the Dreamcast library has.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post
    Like I said, preference is one thing and everyone is entitled to his own. Just don't come saying shit about a whole platform or console library based on two or three games 'cause that's overly ridiculous.
    My only points are that the PS2 offers a distinctly different experience than the Dreamcast did in its very short life. Also, the PS2 seems to get a free pass all the time for sucking graphically because somehow it is performing better while looking like complete ass. I intend to call that out every time I am involved in the conversation. Secondly to that, the PS2 is not as strong in the same way, at least, as the Dreamcast is in its best genres. Obviously the Dreamcast doesn't have as great a representation in each genre, or as many sequels to each popular game.

    Whether one finds that a significant difference will obviously depend on tastes and other things.

  3. #63
    It's that time again! Road Rasher HalfBit's Avatar
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    Very well said. Good job.
    My favorites for both:
    Ps2:god of war, gta 3, psychonauts
    Dc: Jet grind radio, unreal tournament, rayman 2.

  4. #64
    It's that time again! Road Rasher HalfBit's Avatar
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    And yes, I don't have a ps2 but based on what I've heard I think I would rather play those 3.

  5. #65
    Death Bringer Raging in the Streets Black_Tiger's Avatar
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    Whatever RPG is waaaay better on the PS2.
    If you mean to say that Grandia 2 or Skies of Arcadia are obviously inferior to any PS2 RPG, I wish you luck. jRPGs aren't my thing really, but Square-Enix RPGs were old to me after the NES days. I'd say the Xbox has a better argument for best RPGs of that generation, and they are all Bioware RPGs. Again, not really a genre I see in very high esteem. Obviously jRPGs is a big deal for the PS2 though, and I do not intend to dismiss that. My main point is, how does "series X" really negate what few jRPGs the Dreamcast saw in its artificially short life.
    What about El Dorado Gate? Is there even anything like that for PS2?
    Quote Originally Posted by year2kill06
    everyone knows nintendo is far way cooler than sega just face it nintendo has more better games and originals

  6. #66
    Hero of Algol TrekkiesUnite118's Avatar
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    Sheath here's some PS2 games that were released up to 2005 (honestly 2006 would be more fair here as that's when the PS3 came out, but whatever) in each genre:


    2D Fighters:

    Street Fighter Anniversary Collection (Ports of Hyper Street Fighter 2 and Street Fighter 3 Third Strike)
    Marvel vs Capcom 2
    Capcom vs SNK 2
    King of Fighters 2000
    King of Fighters 2001
    King of Fighters 2002
    King of Fighters 2003
    King of Fighters XI (if we count 2006)
    Guilty Gear X
    Guilty Gear XX

    None of those are emulation collections, if we include those we can add a lot more to that list. And that's only the ones I know of off the top of my head, there's probably a lot more.

    3D Fighters:
    Soul Calibur 2
    Soul Calibur 3
    Virtua Fighter 4
    Virtua Fighter 4 Evolution
    Tekken 4
    Tekken 5
    Tekken Tag Tournament
    Dead or Alive 2 Hardcore
    Virtual On Marz
    Dragonball Z Budokai 1-3 (These were surprisingly fun)

    Again this is just what I know of, there's probably more. Diss Soul Calibur and Tekken all you want, they are still solid fighters with legitimate fans. It's not just Sony fans either for Soul Calibur. There's plenty of Sega, Nintendo, and Microsoft fans who will vouch for that series quality.

    First Person Shooters:

    Call of Duty
    Call of Duty 2: Big Red One
    TimeSplitters
    Time Splitters 2
    TimeSplitters: Future Perfect
    Quake 3 Arena
    Medal of Honor: Frontline
    Medal of Honor: Rising Sun
    Medal of Honor: European Conflict
    Red Faction
    Red Faction 2
    007 NightFire
    Half-Life
    Battlefield 2: Modern Conflict
    Unreal Tournament

    And there's really a lot more than that. The 360 had Halo, Halo 2, and Half-Life 2 but a lot of the other games it had were on PS2 and Gamecube as well.

    For Third Person Shooters:

    Resident Evil Code Veronica
    Resident Evil Outbreak 1 and 2
    Resident Evil 4
    Ratchet and Clank Series (These could also fall into 3D Platformer and Action Adventure if you ask me)
    Star Wars Battlefront
    Socom 1-3
    Grand Theft Auto III, Vice City, and San Andreas

    There's probably more for this too, this is just what I know of.

    3D Platformers:
    Sonic Heroes
    Shadow the Hedgehog

    You're whole complaint here seems to be that there's nothing like the Dreamcast Sonics, so those two should satisfy that itch should satisfy your itch. Yeah the PS2 port is the worst of the 3, but we're only talking about the PS2 here. There's a whole lot more platformers on the PS2 as well that I'm not going to go into listing.

    Shmups:
    DoDonPachi DaiOuJou
    Gradius III and IV
    Gradius V
    Silpheed: The Lost Planet
    R-Type Final
    Raiden III
    Thunder Force VI (Yeah it's outside our time window, but it's still worth mentioning if your going to bring up Dreamcast homebrew releases.)

    There's a bunch of others to bring up here as well, I'm just drawing a blank from memory.

    As for RPGs, it's not really about the PS2 games being better than the Dreamcast ones, it simply has to do with there being so many more of them. Grandia 2, Skies of Arcadia, Sakura Wars, etc. are all great, but the PS2 has ones that are just as good and a whole lot more of them. And that's not even looking at the Final Fantasy Series. As good as Bioware's Xbox offerings were, I feel their RPGs really hit their stride with Mass Effect.

    KoTOR Is great, but it lacks in side quests and end game content that a lot of JRPGs are known for. If I remember correctly in KoTOR you will hit the level cap towards the end not because you are actually at the max amount of EXP you can gain, but because you run out of enemies to fight and none of them ever respawn. Mass Effect has this issue too if I remember correctly, but it's good at keeping plenty of enemies for you to fight right up to the end so you don't realize that the issue is there as easily. Mean while I still have plenty of side quests I can go back and do for almost all my PS2 JRPGs.

  7. #67
    I DON'T LIKE POKEMON Hero of Algol j_factor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post
    Fighting is worlds better on the PS2. Tons more of great 2D games and the same for 3D.
    I don't agree with this. I feel that the Dreamcast had more worthwhile fighters that were unique to the system, like Power Stone and Tech Romancer. Those SNK compilations seem iffy on the PS2, and when I played MvC2 for PS2 it felt a bit "off" compared to the Dreamcast version. Soul Calibur 2 is very weak compared to the Gamecube or Xbox version, and I didn't care for the third one that much at all. Guilty Gear XX is outmoded by the later Wii versions, Virtual On Marz is crap, and I just can't bring myself to care about games like The Rumble Fish (yawn). I love fighters, but the only PS2 one in my collection to this day is VF4, and nothing's on my want list, either. I'm sure you'll have a list for me, but I've seriously never seen any reason to be impressed by the PS2 in this category.

    FPS is worlds better on the PS2.
    The controller is certainly better, but in general PS2 is mostly not worth bothering with, it's almost all very inferior ports of games that look and play better on Xbox. I guess the PS2 does have Killzone, I never got around to playing that one. Oni was rubbish though.

    Beat'em ups are worlds better on the PS2.
    This genre was almost completely out of favor. I'm struggling to come up with anything decent for the PS2 except for God Hand (which is great). The Bouncer was awful IMO. Dreamcast didn't have much either, but Dynamite Cop and Zombie Revenge are both quite solid. I'd call this one a draw, with neither system doing all that great.

    3D platformers is better on the PS2, hands down.
    I think this one really depends. The PS2 had a ton of Jak and Ratchet games. If you like those two series (and I group them together because they have a very similar feel), PS2 wins. If not, Dreamcast wins, because PS2 has little else. I did enjoy Tokobot Plus but that's about it.

    Scrolling Shooters are better on the PS2, several great exclusives.
    Like what? This statement honestly surprised me. I think this is the one genre that most people would say is better on DC. I love Gradius V, but Dreamcast had a lot of good stuff.

    Compilations are a no-go on the DC and there's tons stuff on the PS2.
    I'm not sure there's any on the PS2 that are actually worth getting. Midway Arcade Treasures, for example, was a bit borked on the PS2. Of course I haven't done in-depth comparisons of every compilation, but if it's on another system that is generally more solid (GC/Xbox/Wii), going for the PS2 version feels like a gamble. Of course, Dreamcast doesn't really have anything either.

    The rest I agree with.


    You just can't handle my jawusumness responces.

  8. #68
    Hero of Algol
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    Daytona Online is an acquired taste, mainstreamers can't handle the default analog sensitivity. Sega GT is hit or miss with people, I enjoy it quite a bit. MSR is usually praised. F355 Challenge should be in the running for best Racing simulator of the generation, its only minus is ONE CAR type. Hydro Thunder, Speed Devils, TXR, and others were good in the same sense most racers are good.
    I never dismissed those games and I actually think that DC's Daytona was a very good game.

    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    Could somebody prefer Dreamcast Racers over PS2 ones and still be a rational human being? I think so.
    Of course.


    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    Maybe not if we are exclusively comparing the games with the best Racing Wheels plus Pedals for each system, the PS2 probably has more of those than I have ever seen used or talked about. I used my Interact non-force feedback wheel with pedals for a good line time but with stock controllers or third party controllers I think the Dreamcast has an edge over PS2 at least for a few years after the Dreamcast's discontinuation. Those analog triggers, and the MUCH HIGHER analog sensitivity of the Dreamcast stick, made playing Dreamcast much more simple with the stock Dreamcast gamepad than with any wheel I sampled.
    My point here would be just to remind you that, to the opposite of what you suggested in your previous post, the PS2 platform offers options to have you playing your Racing games with both force feedback and 300+ degrees of wheel rotation, just like on the arcades. THAT is something the DC does not allow you to do.
    OTOH, as I've said in many other occasions, the stock/default controllers of the DC are more precise than the shitty Dual Shock 2 controllers (and the same can be said about Saturn vs PS1).


    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    While I might argue that the Dreamcast is better for racers in some ways, it is with the rest of the genres that I have to point out, 2 years versus 11+ years of software support is an absurd comparison.
    Oh, sure, of course... We're in 2014 but we MUST act like if we're stuck in 2001/2002 for the rest of our lives 'cause in that way you can provide us with a libraries comparison where you dismiss a lot of PS2 games and get a free pass for that?
    It's just not happening.


    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    I personally draw the line of comparing anything on the Dreamcast to the PS2 at the 5 year mark
    That's your very own world; thankfully, we're not restricted by that 5 year mark in 2014, when this discussion is happening right now. You know about sites like gamefaqs and ebay, right?


    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    On to Fighters.
    Good.

    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    Again thanks to Sony I can only speak for the US library, and thanks to the absurd popularity I can't speak for every Fighter ever released.
    Oh, so it's all Sony's and PS2 success' fault? Cool.


    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    Crap versus quality is the first thing that comes to my mind for the PS2.
    Funny that you had just admitted that you have a limited knowledge about the PS2 to library. Go figure...


    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    Emulation and compilations fill the crap category mostly, but at least most of them are considered "Arcade perfect" today right? Ugh. At least PS2 controllers didn't have lag to further sully that vaunted status. PS2 Joysticks are also plentiful and very competent.
    Last time I checked the DC stock controllers weren't all that "magic" with Capcom fighters.

    While mocking the PS2 compilations, take some time to read this:
    "The Dreamcast version is the worst of all possible versions. It offers nothing over the Neo-Geo versions other than the unlockable image gallery and the arranged soundtrack mode. Inputs are delayed, Terry's stage lags the game and some versions show problems with sound effects delaying as much as 2 seconds from when they should play. Some of Terry's voice samples are also not the ones from the game, but from as early as Real Bout Fatal Fury Special. If possible, select the original soundtrack option instead of the arranged soundtrack, and play on the original GD-ROM to lessen these effects. Even with these adjustments, this is the worst option for play; even playing on an emulator will be more satisfying."

    "The Japanese Playstation 2 and Xbox 360 versions are the best home console versions. The controls are very tight and the game play is perfect. On the PS2 version during play the words 'Guard Cancel' do not flash on the screen like the other versions do. On the 360 version it fixes that problem. The training mode for PS2/360 are superior to all other versions, they allow for recording and playback of the training dummy's actions. So for practicing setups and other single player training, the PS2/360 versions are the best, even better than the pure Neo-Geo versions. Another thing to take notice is that both the PS2 and 360 versions run at a faster framerate than the original arcade MVS/AES versions. Only takes a bit to adjust to the speed difference and shouldn't cause any problems when running tournaments. The online play over Xbox Live is better than previous SNK releases, but is still bad nonetheless. GGPO/Supercade/Arclive are your better options for online play. The PS2 version also contains the arranged soundtrack, while the 360 version does not (as it is based directly on the original Arcade version)."
    http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Garou:_Mark_of_the_Wolves


    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    From what I have seen only 3D Fighters were in the mainstream and retail eye during the PS2's nominal life (2000-2005).
    "Nominal life"? What's that?
    Maybe "the PS2's adjusted lifespan according to sheath in order to be able to compare it with the quickly unsupported Dreamcast"?


    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    If somebody were to tell me that the PS2 received every 2D and 3D Fighter ever made in various compilations I would not doubt it. I also would not be surprised if my informant could not tell me if there were glitches in video, audio or gameplay introduced by said compilation. I would be even less surprised if two or three enthusiasts of PS2 Fighter Compilations completely failed to agree whether any version of any game was actually Arcade perfect.
    You once again show off all your lack of knowledge about the PS2 library.


    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    I would be happy to be proven wrong, I do change my opinions.
    I see...


    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    It seems like the Dreamcast is the last platform to see actual Arcade ports/adaptations of 2D Fighters before the emulation onslaught began.
    That's not true. At all.
    Companies want to make money as easy and quick as possible, and it wasn't a religious dogma which kept them from doing the "emulation onslaught" earlier but the lack of CPU resources in the previous gens... Even so, several compilations of the 5th gen era (including the sacred Sega Saturn) were already emulated sets of ROMs; "coincidentally" the ones from the older/less powerful arcade boards and consoles.
    Oh, but I still need to prove you wrong about the DC being "the last platform to see actual Arcade ports/adaptations of 2D Fighters". Here we go:
    Capcom vs SNK 2
    Guilty Gear X
    Guilty Gear X2
    Guilty Gear XX Slash
    Guilty Gear XX #Reload
    Guilty Gear XX Accent Core
    Guilty Gear XX Accent Core Plus
    Marvel vs Capcom 2
    NeoGeo Battle Coliseum
    The King of Fighters 2000
    The King of Fighters 2001
    The King of Fighters 2002
    The King of Fighters 2002 Unlimited Match
    The King of Fighters 2003
    The King of Fighters XI

    None of those games are emulated AFAIK. And there are more...


    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    I can't speak much for Capcom or SNK 2D Fighters on the Dreamcast.
    I hope Sony hasn't something to do with it...


    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    I figured Marvel vs Capcom was a very good conversion, I liked it in the Arcades and didn't notice any different. MvC2 was designed for Naomi, so obviously it ran well on Dreamcast, but I didn't care for it as much as the first version.
    Both games are great and excellent on the DC.


    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    Street Fighter Alpha 3 and Street Fighter 3 has failed to appeal to me in any version. I think we have discussed before that Alpha 3 on Dreamcast shares the same flaws to Arcade perfection as the Jpn Saturn version (resolution, sample frequency).
    The DC version is usually far more criticized for its V-ISM timing issues and supposedly altered hit boxes.


    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    For 3D Fighters, Virtua Fighter 3tb was blasted by the media, but I have never seen a concise or comprehensive comparison with the Model 3 original that proves any flaws.
    "The DC version was a rush job by Genki, the makers of the Shotokou Battle games. The graphics are somewhat like the arcade version but for a real poor stage port just check out the desert stage "
    "the island stage is also unlike the arcade one if I remember correctly."
    "In its Model 3 guise, VF3 not only used quadratic polygons but no texture mapping for the character models, which instead got their details purely through shader and lighting effects. To my knowledge, nobody has ever produced a side-by-side comparison of VF3tb, although I've heard many times of limb joints being comromised the most as a result of Genki's decision to lower the polygon count and utilise textures - even though Sega claimed in advance of the Dreamcast's release that it could easily match and even out-perform Model 3. Backgrounds in the console version are similarly poor, with several of the levels receiving a major overhaul. A few other criminal mistakes include the frame rate briefly dropping before opening rounds (when the camera zooms in) and shadows that would flicker and even break up when layered over uneven floor surfaces, much like the problem that plagued all 3D in the Saturn conversion of Virtua Fighter."
    http://www.assemblergames.com/forums...3-Arcade-Vs-DC



    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    Tekken hadn't grown up by the time the PS2 launched, and I haven't bothered to look at the later released sequels.
    I played Tekken 6 the other day with a friend of mine on a Xbox 360... ahahah, boy, is it broken.
    Characters are unbalanced as hell and most of the moves animations are very similar if not identical to the ones found in PS1's Tekken 3. No, I'm not kidding...
    You have all those "amazing looking" backgrounds filled with explosion and waterfalls but the gameplay itself is pretty shallow, repetitive, unbalanced and broken IMO.


    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    I haven't delved much past the mainstream stuff on the PS2 though, they are the ones that stand out in the sea of PS2 releases after all. In a library that massively hugely large there must be something seriously worth playing.
    Being a Sega fan and having advocated the mediocre VF3tb port, it surprises me that you didn't mention VF4 Evo for the PS2:


    Out of the "PS2 sea":





    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    This might require a thread of its own. Over the entire 11+ year PS2 library?
    What's the problem? Are we living in 2014 or 2001?

    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    Defining "Third Person Shooter" would be necessary first.
    Oh, that's another stubborn excuse to avoid a direct comparison...
    I usually use the categorization provided by gamefaqs. As bad and flawed as it is, it's surely better than having to circle jerk wasting days in forum discussions trying to find a "consensus" about the definition while having people like ABF in the game.
    Here are the lists for reference (feel free to start a new thread to discuss genre definitions, I just think it's a pointless and useless discussion for the most part; besides being boring as hell):
    http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps2/list-80
    http://www.gamefaqs.com/dreamcast/list-80


    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    Obviously though, the PS2 has a freaking metric ton of these with various poor to okay standards for gameplay mechanics, with GTA on the extremely poor end.
    Yeah, we all know that having lots of games to choose from is always a bad thing and automatically turns all great games in that library equally mediocre...


    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    Defining Beat em ups is necessary before this can even be discussed.
    Oh, sure... Geez...
    Here are the lists for reference:
    http://www.gamefaqs.com/dreamcast/list-160
    http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps2/list-160


    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    I consider the Devil May Cry and God of War games Action Adventure for example.
    Gamefaqs too! Yay! Can we avoid the weeks of nonsense genre definition discussions then?


    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    Bouncer, Beat Down, Final Fight Street Wise, and what few other straight Beat-em ups on PS2 I can think of off hand are far inferior to Dreamcast Beat-em ups like Dynamite Cop, Zombie Revenge, or especially Shenmue's beat-em up aspects.
    By which stretch of imagination would you include Shenmue in this discussion?
    Oh, let's compare the fighting segments of the RPGs with games like, uh, Virtua Fighter 3tb... What about that?

    Seriously now, Dynamite Cop and Zombie Revenge are nothing special IMO; though you managed to list a pretty bad selection of PS2 Beat'em Ups.
    I'd take The Warriors over them, easily. You'd still have stuff like Berserk, Sengoku Basara 2 Heroes, Warriors Orochi 2 or Gauntlet: Dark Legacy or God Hand. And others...




    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    I am still trying to give God Hand a solid chance at best beat-em up ever, all I see so far is wanna-be Tarrintino garbage and quasi-Action-RPG upgrades.
    I'm amazed how fast and easily you can trash the games which are not in the DC side.


    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    None of the PS2's 3D platformers are anywhere near as fast, nor do they require as much controller accuracy, as the Sonic Adventure games.
    Oh, of course... I suppose that the parts with scripted cinematic jumps in Sonic Adventure don't bother you at all since it's all Sega goodness.
    I also suppose you have played each and every PS2 3D platformer to be able to claim that.


    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    In quantity I agree this is a mainstay PS2 genre.
    Oh, your traditional quantity tag! HIII!


    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    Finding a game that is actually especially worth playing in that genre on the PS2 requires what I consider excessive love for cinematics, "humor" or some other theme instead of the main game itself.
    Yeah, all of them absolutely suck:







    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    If you mean to say that Grandia 2 or Skies of Arcadia are obviously inferior to any PS2 RPG
    No, no... If you pay attention, the beginning of the line was always used to name the genre. I just meant to say "be it Action RPG, Console-style RPG, ...".


    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    Side/Vertically scrolling? Hasn't the Dreamcast been kept "alive" by these almost exclusively over the years?
    And???

    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    Did the PS2 ever get Ikaruga?
    Humm, Ikaruga is the *only* great and must have shooter of that gen...
    What about DoDonPachi Dai-Ou-Jou, Gradius V, Ibara, Espgaluda, Mushihimesama, R-Type Final, Raiden III...? Did they get a port to the Dreamcast?



    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    Aero Wings and Aero Wings 2 along with Airforce Delta and a couple of really bad flight games versus the entire PS2 library might fall short, I agree. For simulation I would always compare the Aero Wing games against anything of that generation at least, I even compare them to Microsoft Flight Simulator. So far I haven't found any Namco Flight game superior in anyway to Air Force Delta either. I keep trying, because I love to be hooked by this genre, but Namco's offerings just don't seem to hit that sweet spot for me. Obviously I am an absurd fanboy now, because everything Namco makes in any genre is gold.
    Or you're absurdly biased just caused you seem to hate anything Namco. And anything Sony. And anything Playstation.
    Or it's just all very funny since AirForce Delta is nothing but an Ace Combat clone and the third game in the series is actually available on the PS2.
    Too bad that Iron Aces isn't a patch for Secret Weapons Over Normandy though...


    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    There are obviously, more light gun games on PS2. Virtua Cop 2 and House of the Dead 2 are pretty much it for Dreamcast, and I wouldn't try to claim that they are better than whatever Time Crisis versions are playable on PS2.
    Namco, yeah, they suck. And Sony platforms are just Namco games after all...


    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    Yep, aside from Atari and Williams stuff available on previous consoles, the Dreamcast wasn't really a compilation system, thank goodness.
    Yeah, it sucks to have these options available:
    http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/~ab443/arcade_games.htm



    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    At least for the Dreamcast CDRs are readily available from all regions.
    Missing music tracks and other stuff at times, right? Good.


    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    Generally, for me, I would prefer to go back to the Dreamcast than any other later platforms for Arcade-Action genres. That would include 3D Fighting games, Racers, and the more unique genre blenders the Dreamcast library has.
    I'm anxious to see you listing those "more unique genre blenders the Dreamcast library has".


    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    My only points are that the PS2 offers a distinctly different experience than the Dreamcast did in its very short life.
    The experience that you get from a console depends on the selection of games you have in your personal collection from the whole library.
    In such aspect, I fail to see how the DC can offer me such a not-on-the-PS2 experience. OTOH, I can easily see that the Dreamcast wouldn't be able to offer all the experiences available in the immense and rounded PS2 library.


    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    Also, the PS2 seems to get a free pass all the time for sucking graphically because somehow it is performing better while looking like complete ass. I intend to call that out every time I am involved in the conversation.
    I'm pretty sure you have called that out every time since I became a member of this forum.
    Also, in this very thread others have already pointed to the PS2 blurry/bad graphics in many games.

    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    Secondly to that, the PS2 is not as strong in the same way, at least, as the Dreamcast is in its best genres.
    I'd love to see you giving us some actual examples and being able to support your claims given that you say you don't know the PS2 library very well.



    @j_factor
    My only point in this discussion was to provide a wider perspective than the "PS2 library is all crap, DC's all awesome" that sheath seemed to be promoting once again and that Bottino kinda brought up when he stated that DC library was better than the N64, GC and Xbox libraries combined.

    My DC vs PS2 comparison is just a comparison between the two systems libraries. Of course, and usually, the games which were released both for the PS2 and the Xbox were better on the later; mostly for the sake of its superior hardware AFAIK.
    But since sheath called out the DC and PS2 libraries comparison, dismissing the later (as he usually does and did again in his reply) I found that it was necessary to go a bit deeper and try at least to analyze the major genres, comparing one platform against the other.

    About the compilations, I also find that most of them are actually bad or mediocre.
    But I think that Namco Museum: 50th Anniversary and Street Fighter Anniversary Collection are well worth getting. Namco Museum: 50th Anniversary for all the games available in the same package and Street Fighter Anniversary Collection for the accuracy and extras.
    The same criticism we have against most of those compilations can be had against the GC and Xbox versions in a minor extend but still with the PC or more recent Xbox 360 ones having more accurate and solid versions.
    Also, as a side note, don't forget that Atari Anniversary Edition on the DC is nothing but emulated ROMs, featuring less games than the PS1 version and lacking the TATE option that some of those games had in previous compilations for the 5th gen consoles. Just like the PS2 compilations we're criticizing...
    I hope to have addressed your other questions in my last reply to sheath.
    Last edited by Barone; 01-14-2014 at 03:23 AM. Reason: typos, crazy stuff

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    Have updated and fixed some stuff.
    There's also some interesting discussing regarding fighting games here:
    http://www.digitpress.com/forum/show...eamcast-vs-PS2

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    Outrunner Splatterhouse5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bottino View Post
    I see that my obviously biased and light-hearted opinion was taken way too seriously.
    Hehe...I took the comment as light-hearted, but it did instantly make me weigh my preferences on each library. I started thinking "which of these libraries would I rather be stuck with?". I can squeeze a lot of fun out of all of those libraries, but if I HAD to pick one (out of DC, XB, N64, and GC), the original Xbox would get my vote.

    This topic is making me want to play Psychonauts, Crimson Skies, and SW:KOTOR again.

  11. #71
    I DON'T LIKE POKEMON Hero of Algol j_factor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post
    @j_factor
    My only point in this discussion was to provide a wider perspective than the "PS2 library is all crap, DC's all awesome" that sheath seemed to be promoting once again and that Bottino kinda brought up when he stated that DC library was better than the N64, GC and Xbox libraries combined.
    Yeah, I don't find myself agreeing with sheath or Bottino here. :/

    My DC vs PS2 comparison is just a comparison between the two systems libraries. Of course, and usually, the games which were released both for the PS2 and the Xbox were better on the later; mostly for the sake of its superior hardware AFAIK.
    But since sheath called out the DC and PS2 libraries comparison, dismissing the later (as he usually does and did again in his reply) I found that it was necessary to go a bit deeper and try at least to analyze the major genres, comparing one platform against the other.
    I don't think the PS2 library should be dismissed. But I do think that one can prefer the Dreamcast library overall for legitimate reasons, and not just pro-Sega and/or anti-Sony bias.

    About the compilations, I also find that most of them are actually bad or mediocre.
    But I think that Namco Museum: 50th Anniversary and Street Fighter Anniversary Collection are well worth getting. Namco Museum: 50th Anniversary for all the games available in the same package and Street Fighter Anniversary Collection for the accuracy and extras.
    The same criticism we have against most of those compilations can be had against the GC and Xbox versions in a minor extend but still with the PC or more recent Xbox 360 ones having more accurate and solid versions.
    I have Namco 50th for the Gamecube. I honestly haven't played it a ton, but it seems pretty solid. But I can't help but wonder if it would be better to just ignore the 50th Anniversary version in favor of the individual volumes for PSX. SF Anniversary I haven't played, but I'm somewhat curious about. "Hyper" SF2 sounds kind of weird...

    Also, as a side note, don't forget that Atari Anniversary Edition on the DC is nothing but emulated ROMs, featuring less games than the PS1 version and lacking the TATE option that some of those games had in previous compilations for the 5th gen consoles. Just like the PS2 compilations we're criticizing...
    Atari Anniversary has the same number of games on PSX and DC, just two of them are different. They both have 12 games. Doesn't matter though, all of the above are included on Atari Anthology for PS2/Xbox along with others. I'm not really that interested in any version of this compilation. The only thing I want to see is if there's some way, with any version, to play Crystal Castles with a trackball. I can't find any confirmation one way or the other, but I think the answer is probably no. It would be a lot of work and expense to find out for sure.


    You just can't handle my jawusumness responces.

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    Quote Originally Posted by j_factor View Post
    I don't think the PS2 library should be dismissed. But I do think that one can prefer the Dreamcast library overall for legitimate reasons, and not just pro-Sega and/or anti-Sony bias.
    Of course. I've said it here before.
    The cleaner graphics, the VGA output and/or exclusive games/best versions of games are all very good reasons to do so.


    Quote Originally Posted by j_factor View Post
    I have Namco 50th for the Gamecube. I honestly haven't played it a ton, but it seems pretty solid. But I can't help but wonder if it would be better to just ignore the 50th Anniversary version in favor of the individual volumes for PSX.
    If you have a TATE setup, the PS1 versions are definitely the way to go. I also think that the PS1 versions run in the same resolution or in a closer one to the original arcade games (it can be preferred if you have a SD CRT TV). I also don't know about proper peripheral support in some old games. I really doubt that you'll find more precise analog support for the Poli Position games in any other platform or paddle controller support to those old breakout-esque games.


    Quote Originally Posted by j_factor View Post
    Atari Anniversary has the same number of games on PSX and DC, just two of them are different. They both have 12 games.
    Oh, sorry for that. I messed up when I wrote it...
    The different games available in the DC version are already available in other PS1 Atari compilations. The different ones available in the PS1 version aren't available for the DC.


    Quote Originally Posted by j_factor View Post
    Doesn't matter though, all of the above are included on Atari Anthology for PS2/Xbox along with others. I'm not really that interested in any version of this compilation. The only thing I want to see is if there's some way, with any version, to play Crystal Castles with a trackball. I can't find any confirmation one way or the other, but I think the answer is probably no. It would be a lot of work and expense to find out for sure.
    You can definitely play Crystal Castles using the Nyko track-ball (yes, it's a proper analog mode since it uses the mouse protocol) if you have the Midway Presents Arcade's Greatest Hits: The Atari Collection 2 for the PS1 (http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/197939-mi...hits-the-atari).
    Again, if you have a TATE setup or use a SD CRT TV or have the Playstation Analog Joystick or have the Paddle/Volume controllers, the PS1 compilations will bring you closer to the arcade experience than the more recent collections. The Atari Anniversary Collection Redux doesn't have TATE support though.
    Last edited by Barone; 01-14-2014 at 10:22 AM.

  13. #73
    I remain nonsequitur Shining Hero sheath's Avatar
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    Is this the quote that got me two walls of flame from a buddy?

    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    Given that since the N64 launched most games are in the same genres, and the Dreamcast hit on all of them quite nicely, I don't think it is necessarily a fanboy position to prefer the Dreamcast library. God of War is nothing new, at all, it isn't even a particularly well playing game. The only thing the Dreamcast lacks is five versions of every game with a different subtitle. I generally prefer the originals in any given series, with rare exception.

    Then there are the thematic differences in the libraries of the PS2 or the Dreamcast, which I find much more difficult to define. I would say the Dreamcast is the last Arcade-Action console, and the PS2 is the first mainstream/core console. The former emphasized challenge and gameplay, the later emphasized cinematic quality and whatever theme was popular that year (usually dark/noir urban violence).
    I think this, and a sub paragraph where I trash God of War in comparison to Legacy of Kain Defiance were my only comments about the PS2's library. That is a far cry from "Dreamcast is magic, PS2 Suxxors." My comparisons up until these walls of "flame the strawman fanboy" aimed at me were comparing the graphics as the OP says. My tone was directly in reaction to "PS2 is much more stronger, Dreamcast couldn't have kept up anyway." I was actually just having fun with it until now.

    PS2 wins because it has more games in every genre and more sequels in every series, and there is nothing degrading about sifting through 100 games to find 10 that are great, the end. Also, to my five year point, which gets flamed every time I bring it up, I was not saying I would not consider later games. I was just being open about the fact that I stopped looking at the PS2 after the Xbox 360 came out. Aside from a couple of multiplatform games I just haven't seen much on the PS2 since then. I haven't seen the Japanese library AT ALL, and that actually is Sony's fault.

    My reasoning for keeping direct game comparisons, especially graphical comparisons, within five years of each other is not some knee jerk fanboy reaction bent on keeping the losing system in the comparison. You won't even see me disallow a comparison because of it coming out too much later. I simply will not tend to make those comparisons for what I consider very good reasons. I wouldn't compare Revenge of Shinobi to Shinobi III and make any conclusions about the hardware based on Revenge of Shinobi's performance. I wouldn't compare Ridge Racer to RR Type 4 and make conclusions about the hardware based on Ridge Racer 1. That is essentially what Sony fans are doing when they put Yakuza 2 up against Shenmue 2. I find it a flawed comparison, the more realistic comparison is Grand Theft Auto 3 versus Shenmue 2. But if people want to compare games that many years apart while assuming that the Dreamcast game is maxing out the system in every way I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

    On the Fighting games, I thought I chose my words carefully enough but apparently not. The PS2 wins hands down in quantity, and the persistence of Emulation in the compilations is a point against in my mind. Please stop running my statements to the absurd, I do not dismiss games because they are piled in with mediocre titles. PS2 rules for SNK? Fine, I trust you to make that unilateral assertion. For Capcom? Sure, although I will still enjoy Powerstone more.

    On Antaemia's VF3tb comparison, for one thing the shadows were fixed for the US release. -edit- It looks like they break up because they don't appear on the sides of stairs just the tops. I don't know what he is talking about for the Desert Stage or Island Stage. Keep in mind this is the same guy who wrote dissertations about the Saturn version of VF3 prototype being near Arcade perfect.

    @0:27 and 0:51


    @ 0:50 (he doesn't turn the camera to the same part as the video above


    @ 6:00 and


    I already compared Dead or Alive 2, really I find it fine on both systems, the Jpn version of the Dreamcast game has all of Hardcore's extras. I prefer Dead or Alive 2 over Dead or Alive 1, 3 or 4 and I haven't played the latest one. That must make me an Xbox hater too. I bought and still own Virtua Fighter 4 and Evo, they are in no way as graphically impressive as the Naomi 2 Arcade original even though AM2 said they would have "no problem" with the PS2. The textures are ultra low detail and color, the aliasing is EVERYWHERE, the background models look like toys and some parts of the characters look like they are non-textured lit polygons with celephane wrapped around them. Free pass for Sony's "polygon monster"? Sure why not.

    My Namco hatred must be seriously selective as I like Ace Combat 3 when I couldn't stand Air Combat or Ace Combat 1 or 4 (PS2). I don't like Namco's Racers, but I'd play Splatter House, Rolling Thunder 2, StarBlade (any, even PS1) and Cybersled over their more popular mainstream titles any day. I also can't get into Air Force Delta Storm on Xbox for some reason. I'm not even saying that Air Force Delta on Dreamcast is a better game, just that I can't put it down when I start playing. The Aero Wings games are better simulators though.

    Genre Blenders: (This list is not an invitation to further denegrate me for have an opinion, and in no way negates unique PS2 games)
    Powerstone (True 3D Fighting, Platforming)
    Sonic Adventure (3D Platforming, 3D Adventure, Rail Shooter, 3D Shooter)
    Sonic Adventure 2 (3D Platforming, 3D Adventure, 3D Shooter)
    Armada (Overhead Shooter, RPG)
    Seventh Cross Evolution (RPG, Life Simulator?)
    Toy Commander (Arcade Flight/Sea Missions, Puzzles, Play as Toys in a house)
    Draconus Cult of the Wyrm (Action, 3D Fighting, RPG, Fantasy Story Based)
    Ecco the Dolphin DoF (2D/3D Adventure, Under Water Exploration, Puzzles)
    Jet Grind Radio (3D Skating/Tricks/Stunts, Memory Games for Tagging)
    MDK2 (Third Person Shooter, Puzzles/Inventions)
    Omikron The Nomad Soul (Futuristic City Simulator, RPG)
    Powerstone 2 (3D Fighter, Platformer, Party Game)
    Red Dog Superior Firepower (Third Person Vehicle Shooter, Puzzles, Exploration, Weapons Upgrades)
    Samba De Amigo (Music Game, Marracas)
    Shenmue (3D City Simulator, Beat-em Up RPG)
    Shenmue 2 (3D City Simulator, Beat-em Up RPG)
    Seaman (Life Simulator, AI)
    Typing of the Dead (Keyboard Shooter)
    Virtual On Oratario Tangram (Arena Fighter, Third Person Shooter, 3D Fighting)
    Ooga Booga (True 3D Fighter, Arena Fighter)

    Arcade - Action Games:
    Dynamite Cop
    Expendable
    House of the Dead 2
    Incoming
    Pen Pen Tricelon
    Power Stone
    Psychic Force 2012
    Cannon Spike
    Virtual On Oratario Tangram
    Zombie Revenge
    Charge N Blast
    Death Crimson OX
    Outtrigger

    Now I will reiterate my perception of the thematic differences of the Dreamcast and PS2 libraries. I think the Dreamcast was the last console to emphasize Arcade Action titles as a main selling point of its library, and the PS2 is the first modern "Core/Mainstream" console.
    Last edited by sheath; 01-14-2014 at 11:26 AM.

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    Stuck in the Past Shining Hero The Jackal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gogogadget View Post
    It is, except for the bit where the PS2 controller has 10 buttons whilst the Dreamcast has only 4 face buttons + 2 analog triggers, and only 1 analog stick where as when the PS2 took off games requiring more than one analog stick became commonplace.

    The Dreamcast is a good console, but it died before it's generation really took off and the other consoles have far too many games for me to even put the Dreamcast anywhere near the other consoles libraries.
    That wasn't what I was getting at. Of course Sony had the advantage there - I'm sure Sega would of put out a revised pad some where down the line ala the 6 button MD one; who really knows though.

    I was talking more of a personal preference - I like the shape of the PS2 pad for instance, but I can't stand the sticks or dpad. The Dreamcast's, for me, were much better.

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    Death Bringer Raging in the Streets Black_Tiger's Avatar
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    The stock DC pad worked fine for 3D games for me, even after being spoiled by the Saturn 3D pad.

    Since Saturn-to-DC pad adapters were cheap, easy to find (at EB), fully compatible and available long before the system was discontinued, 2D DC games played as well as possible.
    Quote Originally Posted by year2kill06
    everyone knows nintendo is far way cooler than sega just face it nintendo has more better games and originals

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