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Thread: Classic fighters and their sequels

  1. #1
    Master of Shinobi
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    Sunglasses Classic fighters and their sequels

    Do you guys think most sequels to games in the fighting genre almost totally surpass their predecessors or do you think stuff like Street Fighter II and Virtua Fighter 2 for instance can hold up on their own?
    Last edited by Jeckidy; 04-24-2014 at 12:02 PM.

  2. #2
    Road Rasher Bibin's Avatar
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    Well, at least in Street Fighter's case, each proper sequel (not counting things like Champion Edition, Hyper, etc) use a modified version of the paradigm the series represents. Street Fighter 2 plays very differently compared to Street Fighter Alpha 3, which is very unlike Street Fighter 3: Second Impact. While the inputs and principles are similar, if not the same, the different engines very intentionally change the way the game is played. Street Fighter 3's parry mechanic completely changes the effectiveness of projectiles, while the Alpha series introduces airblocking and different styles of using your super meter.

    For that reason I'd say the sequels successfully broaden the ground covered by the series, while the sub-sequels expand upon and rebalance the games. There are so many SF2 versions because of 1) profits and 2) patches weren't a thing for home consoles at the time.

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    ToeJam is a wiener Hero of Algol Guntz's Avatar
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    For SNK fighting games, it's very dependent on the series.

    Fatal Fury, it's largely agreed the various sequels are far superior to the first (Fatal Fury Special, Real Bout 1/Special/2, Garou Mark of the Wolves), but the original has some unique features hardly seen in other fighting games, like 1 and 2 player Vs an opponent and a sort of Mike Tyson's Punch Out design with a few playable characters and each opponent having a unique attack or trick to being defeated.

    Samurai Shodown peaked with 2, though there are those who feel the odd numbered entries are best.

    King of Fighters is best in '98 and 2002, but some say the earlier titles are better for being more pure and having fewer women and children. I like 2003 for its active tag team system, it makes the game feel more like a 3 on 3 game than just 3 out of 5 separate matches.

    Art of Fighting isn't cared about much, but 2 and 3 are considered the best. I don't like the games much.

    Nobody openly admits to liking World Heroes (ADK). I liked 2 the best.

    Last Blade 1 and 2 are both great.

    SNK/ADK's other miscellaneous fighters like Savage Reign, Kizuna Encounter and Ninja Master's are all quite good but nobody remembers them.

  4. #4
    Master of Shinobi
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    Funny thing about Street Fighter. I played SF Alpha 2 the other day, and I could beat the game effortlessly with Ken using the exact same tactics I can use to beat SF4.

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    8 & 16 bit guy Outrunner Bloodreign's Avatar
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    I'm probably one of the few who like World Heroes, I honestly like World Heroes Perfect the most though as it felt like a normal fighting game.

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    Antiquing Hedgehog Lord QuickSciFi's Avatar
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    Once they start adding 3D and such, the gameplay mechanics automatically makes it a completely different game.

    As for Mortal Kombat; nothing beats MK2. When they fucked up the way you play Liu Kang (and others) in MK3, I gave up. The same thing happened between MK vs. DC Universe (where you get somewhat of the old Liu Kang), only to be fucked-up in MK9 (which is still an excellent game, nonetheless).

    With Street Fighter, I find the Alpha series the most beautiful. That Frankenstein of a thing that passes for 2.5D on the PS3 can suck it.

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    ESWAT Veteran DarkDragon's Avatar
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    Third Strike is easily better than Double Impact and the first one. I only play Third Strike and dont bother with the first 2.

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    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-Training Like G's Avatar
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    Sorry for bumping such an old thread, but as I can't create a new topic, this was the closest I could find.

    Yoshiki Okamoto (producer of Street Fighter 2) just posted on his Japanese YT channel an interesting explanation on why Capcom insisted on making sequels to their 2D fighting games when many other publishers like Sega and Namco were already developing 3D fighters.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mF-CZPLarA

    He mentions that the majority of Capcom's revenue at the time came from 2D arcade games. And in Japanese amusement centers of this era, there was a competition between manufacturers for floor space in the front rows near the entrance (where most players would gather to spend their quarters). Usually, the most popular machines would stay longer on the front, and Capcom had already got a big share of floor space with their CPS-2 cabinets running SSF2 and SSF2T.

    Despite popularity, when newer cabinets got released, they would be put on the front rows, sending the older ones to the back.
    Even though Capcom was satisfied releasing one Street Fighter game per year (SF2-CE-Turbo-Super), once its competitor SNK started launching a new fighting game every other month, the Street Fighter makers could not afford to wait seeing their cabinets being pushed back to the deep rows of arcade centers, and kept on making several fighting series and sequels (Darkstalkers alone had 5 arcade versions released in 3 years!!).

    That explains a lot why these guys pushed so many sequels in such a short space of time, and even if it may have led to oversaturation of the fighting game market, it was undoubtedly the golden age for this genre.

    I highy recommend Okamoto's channel, some (not the majority, unfortunately) of his videos are English-subbed, and it is a great piece of gaming history by the legend himself!

    Now, answering the topic, I do not think fighting game sequels are necessarily better, there are several examples of timeless classics, still found today on people asking for the rerelease of Marvel VS Capcom 2, or those complaining that Street Fighter Alpha 2 did not have an online mode in the Anniversary Collection (like Alpha 3 did).
    Last edited by Like G; 08-12-2021 at 09:31 PM.
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    Heat Guy WCPO Agent Lync's Avatar
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    Not all sequels are an improvement.

    The best example to me is SNK's Art of Fighting series.

    AoF for 1992 is a fine game. It may be long-in-the-tooth today, but every series has to start somewhere.

    AoF2 was bigger, brighter, smoother but way too difficult to enjoy. For the amount of polish SNK put on this sequel, it's a shame it was spoiled by such a brutal AI. I would expect this facing Geese Howard, but not every single match leading to it! And even just unlocking that boss battle, yuck.

    AoF3 similarly bigger, brighter, smoother... but could they have assembled a more pitiful group of characters? And a story never meant much to a 2D fighter until SNK, however how could they come up with something so uninspiring? And cherry on top with such a boring final boss... I feel like AoF3 is the pedestrian's 2D fighter.

    That's my pick anyways.

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    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-Training Like G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lync View Post

    AoF2 was bigger, brighter, smoother but way too difficult to enjoy. For the amount of polish SNK put on this sequel, it's a shame it was spoiled by such a brutal AI.
    To this day I still wonder which one, AoF2 or Mortal Kombat 2, should get the prize of "Most Disgraceful AI in Gaming History". Those games were no fun in 1-player mode. At least in AoF1 and MK1, you could beat the arcade mode by just becoming a good player.
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    Isolated Warrior Master of Shinobi Dirt Ball Gamer's Avatar
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    The last time I played Geese Howard he kickt my fucking ass. It was shameful.

  12. #12
    Master of Shinobi
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    Quote Originally Posted by Like G View Post
    To this day I still wonder which one, AoF2 or Mortal Kombat 2, should get the prize of "Most Disgraceful AI in Gaming History". Those games were no fun in 1-player mode. At least in AoF1 and MK1, you could beat the arcade mode by just becoming a good player.
    Personally, AoF2, easily. It's very hard to 1cc MK2 but it's beatable with continues. AoF2 just makes me feel like banging my head against a wall.

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    The Future is Yesterday Hedgehog-in-TrainingESWAT Veteran Leynos's Avatar
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    Street Fighter turned to shit for me once it went 3D with IV and V sucks. Mortal Kombat was fucking awful post-16-bit era until the reboot. Isn't Tekken 5 or 6 shit on by fans? Soul Calibur got worse after II. Guilty Gear always got better. KOF got bad with some entries. I don't think MVC3U is as good as 2 but a damn good game. MvCI is a pile of shit and killed the series.

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    8 & 16 bit guy Outrunner Bloodreign's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silanda View Post
    Personally, AoF2, easily. It's very hard to 1cc MK2 but it's beatable with continues. AoF2 just makes me feel like banging my head against a wall.
    Baraka, Scorpion, Sub-Zero, Reptile, Jax, and Johnny Cage can lure the CPU into the cheesiest of traps, over and over again. Kintaro can also be jump kicked repeatedly if timed right, Khan can literally be standing kicked right out of his charge attack even. The Genesis version of MK2 has the easiest version of Kintaro, those same timed jumpkicks work, and Scorpion and Sub-Zero can spear and freeze him over and over right as he gets up, every single time (that also carried over to the 32X MK 2 as well).


    AoF 2 on the other hand, came from a time when SNK fighters were very stiff in how they controlled, and timing. SNK seemed to relax that starting with KoF 96, and especially KoF 97, where the CPU didn't constantly block and counter every single thing you threw at it (unlike KoF 94 and 95). The early Fatal Fury's, and in some ways, World Heroes suffers the same issue, though I have seen people cheese the CPU in WH with simple low kicks.

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    Master of Shinobi Mega Drive Bowlsey's Avatar
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    As much as I love Super Street Fighter II, for me the pinnacle of perfection with regards Street Fighter was the Alpha trilogy. With regards Mortal Kombat the first two games are the best for me, but I played the hell out of Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 as a kid and still really like it. I lost interest in the MK games after Deception.

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