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Thread: TMNT Hyperstone Heist Big Apple 3AM Hack

  1. #46
    Wildside Expert SpaceHarrier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thief View Post
    However on GameFAQs, Prism Kikaku is shown to be the developer of SNES version King of Dragons. So maybe that's why we finally have more then 3 enemies on screen as the norm from a Capcom SNES beat 'em up?
    Explanation lies elsewhere...
    EDIToh, and yeah, that's right. We mustn't forget the massive borders taking up a ton of screen space in SNES beat' em ups. Must save on that processing power.
    lol
    (Go compare with SNES's Final Fight games -> no borders maybe why less enemies? Since you know, SNES is overpowered! xD)

  2. #47
    Outrunner Vludi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thief View Post


    Of course it's the best SNES beat em up! It's one of very few beat'em ups that go over the lame SNES 3 max enemies on screen BS. And the only SNES Capcom beat'em up to do so (thought in FF3 there are 2 spot were I seen it up to 4 because smaller enemies were used for these two scenes. Wish the whole game used smaller sprite, Capcom! You knuckle heads!!!). However on GameFAQs, Prism Kikaku is shown to be the developer of SNES version King of Dragons. So maybe that's why we finally have more then 3 enemies on screen as the norm from a Capcom SNES beat 'em up?

    I really hate how all Capcom SNES games use much too big enemies that prevents the game from going over the 3 max enemies on screen limit. Really hurts these beat'em ups in my opinion. The only Capcom beat'em up that I can stand on the SNES with the 3 enemy limit is Knights of the Round. As even with the 3 enemy limit, it's still feels like a solid beat'em up. Though I've also noticed hack n' slash games don't suffer as much from fewer enemies on screen as the grapple Final Fight clones.
    I guess King of Dragons was ported by a different team, the graphics were good despite the tiny resolution/sprites, the music was great (not too different from the great FM arcade music), the gameplay tried the best to be faithful to the arcade, it's day and night compared to shit like Captain Commando port or SNES Final Fight games.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vludi View Post
    it's day and night compared to shit like Captain Commando port or SNES Final Fight games.
    Totally agree. Arcade King of Dragons is awesome and no port can be near close, but snes port was pretty good. I like it. (And hate no port for Megadrive!!!)

  4. #49
    Master of Shinobi midnightrider's Avatar
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    ^Especially considering most of Capcom's arcade games used the M68000 at the time.

    Personally I like the unarmed beat 'em ups more than hack 'n slash anyway. Usually many more moves at your disposal, including grabs.

    Btw, you won't see maximum enemies in the SoR series on anything short of Mania difficulty. Another thing to note, if SoR2 only has 6 enemies maximum, that's on top of 2 player characters(which could consist of a duo of Max and Axel, the 2 largest), and, at times, 3 breakable objects. The SNES Final Fights have any combination of 3 enemies/breakable objects, where you won't see another enemy on screen until you break a barrel/crate.

    One more thing of note, on top of the sprites getting larger, the animation keeps getting better too. Animation is something else that requires good amounts of sprite use, so Streets of Rage just keeps looking better and better, honestly.
    Last edited by midnightrider; 01-19-2015 at 03:37 PM.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vludi View Post
    SoR3 supports max 5 enemies, SoR2 supports max 6 enemies on screen, SoR1 11-12 from what i remember, Growl supports like 10 enemies with similar sprites to SoR1. On SNES King of Dragons supports like 6 or 7 enemies max but with slowdowns and microscopic resolution/sprites.





    I've always wondered... it's possible to make a 3-players co-op SoR1 hack? since it handles so many sprites it wouldn't be a big problem right?
    This is a cool subject to discuss.

    SOR1 runs at 30 fps though.

    SOR3 is the most impressive IMO. The characters are bigger than in SOR2 and they have a simple but neat sprite movement applied to their chests in order to give you the impression that they're actually breathing. Some stages also have some neat animation details. Also, I think it has better enemy variability than on SOR2.

    But I actually came here to cite Alien Storm on the MD as another example.
    At 5:13 in this video you can see: 2 characters + 8 enemies on screen:



    Six of those enemies aren't that big but I still find it impressive for a 1991 game (it came out a bit before SOR1) and it runs at 60 fps without any instance of slowdown IIRC.

    It's sad to see that and then go to the later western developed beat'em ups which were designed primarily for the SNES and then ported to the Genesis. The Death and Return of Superman, for an example, has only THREE enemies on screen and it's 1P-only.
    TMNT has that 4 enemies limitation which hurts the gameplay a bit IMO. 5 or 6 would have been great.

  6. #51
    Master of Shinobi midnightrider's Avatar
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    Well, you do get 5 or 6, if the mousers/laser bots count. Earlier in the thread bgvanbur mentioned that TMNT already hits the 80 sprite limit. However, if Project Y can display the 10 enemies, wouldn't that smash the hell out of that limit?

    Also, what am I missing? If SoR1 is half speed, why don't I feel that as I'm playing it?

  7. #52
    Outrunner Vludi's Avatar
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    Pretty cool about Alien Storm, i remember seeing 6 enemies max in single player.

    Quote Originally Posted by midnightrider View Post

    Also, what am I missing? If SoR1 is half speed, why don't I feel that as I'm playing it?
    I noticed that SoR1 was 30 fps since the first time i played it. Look for example the first 2 seconds in level 5, it looks at 60 FPS and when Adam jumps in it turns 30 FPS.



    Growl is 60 FPS though, which is impressive.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by midnightrider View Post
    Well, you do get 5 or 6, if the mousers/laser bots count. Earlier in the thread bgvanbur mentioned that TMNT already hits the 80 sprite limit. However, if Project Y can display the 10 enemies, wouldn't that smash the hell out of that limit?
    I didn't read that 10 enemies claim by any of the Project Y team members or WM. Did they actually said that? Or is it just some random wishful assertion by guys like tbp?

    About the sprite limit in TMNT, two things:
    - The 2P mode has 2 characters + 4 enemies on screen; so in 1P mode it should not be impossible to have the 5 enemies.
    - The characters are probably segmented in many very small sprites which fit the SNES sprite system better. If it was designed around the MD's sprite system you'd be able to combine several different sprite sizes in order to compose your characters; that would probably save you enough sprites to add one or two enemies (the ninja ones) without blowing up the sprite limit.


    Quote Originally Posted by midnightrider View Post
    Also, what am I missing? If SoR1 is half speed, why don't I feel that as I'm playing it?
    Some people don't feel the 30 fps difference as much as others, but to me it's quite annoying actually. And the game itself is quite slow paced already.
    You'll always have that slight trail of afterimages while moving your character in SOR1.

  9. #54
    Master of Shinobi midnightrider's Avatar
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    I've seen it mentioned in the thread here, and at another forum, that Project Y was supposed to have twice the enemies of SoR3, which has been noted in this topic as being 5.

    Is there a good explanation of what exactly sprites are somewhere? Like are they square blocks of pixels(32x32 pixels is not very large, and it would take maybe 60 at that size to cover Max alone), or what?

  10. #55
    ESWAT Veteran Da_Shocker's Avatar
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    I would love to see a SCD hack I mean lord knows it needs more quality games. Wait the 32X really needs more quality games form every genre. A 4 player beat em up on the 32X would make me have wet dreams for years.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zoltor View Post
    Japan on the other hand is in real danger, if Japanese men don't start liking to play with their woman, more then them selves, experts calculated the Japanese will be extinct within 300 years.

  11. #56
    Master of Shinobi evilevoix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Da_Shocker View Post
    I would love to see a SCD hack I mean lord knows it needs more quality games. Wait the 32X really needs more quality games form every genre. A 4 player beat em up on the 32X would make me have wet dreams for years.
    That would indeed rule.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Da_Shocker View Post
    I would love to see a SCD hack I mean lord knows it needs more quality games. Wait the 32X really needs more quality games form every genre. A 4 player beat em up on the 32X would make me have wet dreams for years.
    Or, even better, a Super 32X CD version!

  13. #58
    Wildside Expert bgvanbur's Avatar
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    5foot.png

    Modified heist with simple level edits for more enemies (no changes to game engine). 5 plain foot at beginning of first area on easy or normal, later on 5 katana foot, remaining baddies removed for the area until the last part. You can combine the two areas by defeating some or none of the first foot before going to second group of foot. It seems 5 plain foot is fine for single player, has some flicker for 2 player, and 5 katana foot has some flicker even on single player (extra sprites for katana). The game engine has a coded limit of 9 enemies, so if you walk through the two groups the 10th foot soldier never gets added (and you will only get 9 points) and you will notice foot soldiers present but not drawn due to sprite limit (and since the game engine is smart enough to stop computing sprites after the sprite limit is reached turning off the sprite limit in an emulator has no effect here). If you run through the first group which has 2 foot on the left and 3 on the right, you get enough distance on the 2 foot on the left that they get dropped and you will get 8 points for killing them (typically the game has hard stops every once in a while so this isn't a very useful technique but interesting none the less). If you keep running you can lose them all since this modified area has no hard stops.
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...tmnt_5foot.bin

  14. #59
    WCPO Agent EPSYLON EAGLE's Avatar
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    Great bgvandur, now this game begs for voices clips fix patch.

  15. #60
    Bite my shiny, metal ***! Hero of Algol retrospiel's Avatar
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    Great to see you're back working on this!!

    Btw, Pyron recently released a patch that fixes the game's palette issues: http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/2330/

    Maybe you could use this as a basis for your work ?
    The Mega Drive was far inferior to the NES in terms of diffusion rate and sales in the Japanese market, though there were ardent Sega users. But in the US and Europe, we knew Sega could challenge Nintendo. We aimed at dominating those markets, hiring experienced staff for our overseas department in Japan, and revitalising Sega of America and the ailing Virgin group in Europe.

    Then we set about developing killer games.

    - Hayao Nakayama, Mega Drive Collected Works (p. 17)

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