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Thread: Why did Snes sold more games than Genesis?

  1. #271
    I DON'T LIKE POKEMON Hero of Algol j_factor's Avatar
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    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to goldenband again.


    You just can't handle my jawusumness responces.

  2. #272
    I remain nonsequitur Shining Hero sheath's Avatar
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    Laugh it up guys, you still haven't proven anything. Even Accolade vs Sega case is primarily about software piracy (see the document trekkies posted) and whether or not a platform holder has the right to manufacture FOR ITS OWN PLATFORM. Yet there is no mention of a multi year exclusivity agreement anywhere in the arguments by any side. There is an implication at point that Sega might have possibly used the manufacturing rights to oppose the games being made for other platforms, but that is always the argument by the guys who attempted, and failed, to make games for free for the Genesis.

    Keep trying guys, but you still haven't proven anything.
    "... If Sony reduced the price of the Playstation, Sega would have to follow suit in order to stay competitive, but Saturn's high manufacturing cost would then translate into huge losses for the company." p170 Revolutionaries at Sony.

    "We ... put Sega out of the hardware business ..." Peter Dille senior vice president of marketing at Sony Computer Entertainment

  3. #273
    Hero of Algol TrekkiesUnite118's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    Right, after that enlightening and not at all insulting
    There was no insult in that thread, it was simply my asking you not to derail that thread with your agenda.

    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    duplicitous account,
    Ya caught me. Everyone who disagree's with you is clearly just me on an alternate account.

    BEHOLD MY TRUE FORM!

    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    here is another of my horrible previous posts about Sega before and after Sony's influence on the industry:
    http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthr...l=1#post684150
    Fun fact. You edited that post after my initial reply.

    And again it doesn't prove anything. You were implying that Sega's development studios shifted to making nothing but sequels after the Dreamcast, but that's not the case. While they made some sequels to their successful games, they made a lot of new original IPs as well which you conveniently left out of that post by cherry picking specific info.

    Here's a list of Sega's new and original IP's they've made since the Dreamcast cancellation:

    Billy Hatcher and the Giant Egg
    Super Monkey Ball
    Sega Superstars + Sega Superstars Tennis
    Feel the Magic XX/XY
    Blood will Tell
    Valkyria Chronicles
    Yakuza
    Binary Domain
    Hero Bank
    Rhythm Theif
    Project DIVA
    Rise of Nightmares
    Border Break
    Ghost Squad

    And then there's these they made in collaboration with other studios and own the IPs as a result:
    7th Dragon
    Sands of Destruction
    Resonance of Fate
    Let's Tap
    Renegade Ops
    The Cave
    Condemned
    Crush
    Bayonetta
    Madworld
    Anarchy Reigns
    Infinite Space
    Vanquish
    Alpha Protocol

    That comes out to about 2 new IPs a year. That really doesn't look like only producing sequels to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    Laugh it up guys, you still haven't proven anything. Even Accolade vs Sega case is primarily about software piracy (see the document trekkies posted) and whether or not a platform holder has the right to manufacture FOR ITS OWN PLATFORM. Yet there is no mention of a multi year exclusivity agreement anywhere in the arguments by any side. There is an implication at point that Sega might have possibly used the manufacturing rights to oppose the games being made for other platforms, but that is always the argument by the guys who attempted, and failed, to make games for free for the Genesis.

    Keep trying guys, but you still haven't proven anything.
    From the Legal Brief:

    Prior to rendering it own games compatible with the Genesis console, Accolade explored the possibility of entering into a licensing agreement with Sega, but abandoned the effort because the agreement would have required that Sega be the exclusive manufacturer of all games produced by Accolade.
    This isn't a casual blog post, it's a legal brief. The language in these is chosen very carefully to make sure there's no chance of misinterpretation. How it's worded, is how it's to be literally interpreted.

  4. #274
    I remain nonsequitur Shining Hero sheath's Avatar
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    Two new games a year isn't a change?

    Also, it is obvious that you cannot produce the evidence you claim makes me a "dumbass". The Accolade case surely does_not. Neither do any of the actually produced games of any of Sega's third party licensees. Well actually, I can see one possible argument for Sega's "exclusive" requirement, but some games ended up on other platforms before 2 years and others in the same year.

    If you want to post a stupid gif as a response, maybe you should look to see if I supported my statement later. I am the one being accused of flooding threads and ignoring facts after all.
    "... If Sony reduced the price of the Playstation, Sega would have to follow suit in order to stay competitive, but Saturn's high manufacturing cost would then translate into huge losses for the company." p170 Revolutionaries at Sony.

    "We ... put Sega out of the hardware business ..." Peter Dille senior vice president of marketing at Sony Computer Entertainment

  5. #275
    Raging in the Streets A Black Falcon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    Laugh it up guys, you still haven't proven anything. Even Accolade vs Sega case is primarily about software piracy (see the document trekkies posted) and whether or not a platform holder has the right to manufacture FOR ITS OWN PLATFORM. Yet there is no mention of a multi year exclusivity agreement anywhere in the arguments by any side. There is an implication at point that Sega might have possibly used the manufacturing rights to oppose the games being made for other platforms, but that is always the argument by the guys who attempted, and failed, to make games for free for the Genesis.

    Keep trying guys, but you still haven't proven anything.
    I'm still waiting for your list of things Nintendo did during the 4th generation. The only significant thing I can think of is their content restrictions, which they mostly dropped in 1994 after the Mortal Kombat debacle and the introduction of the ESRB.

    I know you keep ignoring this point, but seriously, you can't be asking for proof that Sega abused its monopoly as Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft all did, when SEGA NEVER HAD A MONOPOLY IN THE FIRST PLACE!


    As for Accolade, once again, that lawsuit is exactly the kind of thing Nintendo also did, in its lawsuit against Atari Games (Tengen). Suing to block unlicensed games is copying NES-era Nintendo procedure. By behaving just as Nintendo did towards third parties who tried to get around their restrictions, they were of course being just like Nintendo.

  6. #276
    Hero of Algol TrekkiesUnite118's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    Two new games a year isn't a change?
    I'm not saying they didn't reduce their amount of new IPs. I'm saying that they didn't stop making new IPs. You claimed that they became nothing but a sequel factory:

    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    they all ended up shifting into the more modern mode of "nothing but sequels."
    You're implying that Sega doesn't make new IPs anymore, that's not true. The Dreamcast and Saturn Era was a bit of a bizarre explosion of creativity from Sega, no one denies that. But they didn't drop all of that to just make sequels. It's called they're a smaller company now with more to lose. So they make more safe bets to stay afloat while investing in fewer, but stronger, new ideas. So they may not be pumping out 5+ new IPs a year like they used to, but they still put out a decent amount of new ideas. If you look back at those Console days, they also put out tons of sequels to help fund their new ideas. They were just a little more liberal with what games they greenlit. For every Jet Set Radio there were mounds of generic light gun games and arcade driving games.

    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    Also, it is obvious that you cannot produce the evidence you claim makes me a "dumbass". The Accolade case surely does_not. Neither do any of the actually produced games of any of Sega's third party licensees. Well actually, I can see one possible argument for Sega's "exclusive" requirement, but some games ended up on other platforms before 2 years and others in the same year.

    If you want to post a stupid gif as a response, maybe you should look to see if I supported my statement later. I am the one being accused of flooding threads and ignoring facts after all.
    Please, tell us more about how official court documents don't count and how factual evidence has personally slighted you.

  7. #277
    I remain nonsequitur Shining Hero sheath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118 View Post
    Please, tell us more about how official court documents don't count and how factual evidence has personally slighted you.
    Why don't you use this official court document to prove anything you have claimed? I mean specifically, where is the line that says Sega demanded exclusive rights even on PCs in the licensing agreement? Here is where I don't get you internet personalities. You should all want to know more, but you get so obsessed with vilifying somebody that you rarely, if ever, prove everything.

    In my ideal world we would all be discussing the development tools available today versus back then.
    "... If Sony reduced the price of the Playstation, Sega would have to follow suit in order to stay competitive, but Saturn's high manufacturing cost would then translate into huge losses for the company." p170 Revolutionaries at Sony.

    "We ... put Sega out of the hardware business ..." Peter Dille senior vice president of marketing at Sony Computer Entertainment

  8. #278
    Hero of Algol TrekkiesUnite118's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    Why don't you use this official court document to prove anything you have claimed? I mean specifically, where is the line that says Sega demanded exclusive rights in the licensing agreement?
    I quoted it and bolded it for you right here:

    http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthr...l=1#post685965

    No, it's not talking about piracy, it's very clear that Sega would be the sole manufacturer of all of Accolades games. Meaning only Sega could make the games Accolade developed. So if Accolade wanted to make Zero Tolerance under a Sega License and then decided to put it on the SNES, guess what? Only Sega can manufacture Zero Tolerance. There's no other way to interpret that, it's very clear and carefully worded to avoid that. It's an official Legal Brief after all. If they meant only Genesis games, they would have said the following:

    ...the agreement would have required that Sega be the exclusive manufacturer of all GENESIS games produced by Accolade.
    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    you internet personalities...
    Yep that's what I am. Isn't it great?

  9. #279
    I remain nonsequitur Shining Hero sheath's Avatar
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    "... If Sony reduced the price of the Playstation, Sega would have to follow suit in order to stay competitive, but Saturn's high manufacturing cost would then translate into huge losses for the company." p170 Revolutionaries at Sony.

    "We ... put Sega out of the hardware business ..." Peter Dille senior vice president of marketing at Sony Computer Entertainment

  10. #280
    Hero of Algol TrekkiesUnite118's Avatar
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    I really don't care what stu said, I'm laying out for you what the official court document says and it's very clear in black and white. They don't write these things casually to be interpreted in multiple ways. They write them to be very clear and specific so there's no room for interpretation.

  11. #281
    I remain nonsequitur Shining Hero sheath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118 View Post
    I really don't care what stu said, I'm laying out for you what the official court document says and it's very clear in black and white. They don't write these things casually to be interpreted in multiple ways. They write them to be very clear and specific so there's no room for interpretation.
    Quote the line then, trollies, where Sega actually requires a 2 year exclusive agreement. You can't can you? Quote it.
    "... If Sony reduced the price of the Playstation, Sega would have to follow suit in order to stay competitive, but Saturn's high manufacturing cost would then translate into huge losses for the company." p170 Revolutionaries at Sony.

    "We ... put Sega out of the hardware business ..." Peter Dille senior vice president of marketing at Sony Computer Entertainment

  12. #282
    Hero of Algol TrekkiesUnite118's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    Quote the line then, trollies, where Sega actually requires a 2 year exclusive agreement. You can't can you? Quote it.
    I quoted the exact line where it stated that Sega had exclusive manufacturing rights to ALL of Accolades games. Just because they didn't state 2 Years doesn't make the evidence any less accurate or damning to the fact that Sega tried similar practices to Nintendo. Once again, you're asking for something so specific to distract from the fact you've been proven wrong.

    Let me put your argument into a different light so you can see how silly it has become.

    Sheath: "Person A isn't as Evil as Person B! They never Brutally murdered people!"
    Me: "Actually person A murdered people too as these court documents prove. So they were just as Evil."
    Sheath: "But did they Spit on the bodies when they were done!?"
    Me: "Um, I don't know?"
    Sheath: "SEE! THEY WEREN'T AS EVIL AND YOU CAN'T PROVE IT!"

    See how silly that stance is now?

  13. #283
    I remain nonsequitur Shining Hero sheath's Avatar
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    Which developer did Sega murder then?

    I am also not apposed at all to barone's recent wall o quotes:
    http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthr...l=1#post685946


    In which of these comments do I claim Sega was the model of benevolent corporate nonsense and never did anything wrong? Can any of you be honest for once?

    By the way, barone's responses expose his love of Sony especially, and his belief that Sega failed to support its products as anti-competitively as Nintendo and Sony.
    Last edited by sheath; 09-25-2014 at 12:15 AM.
    "... If Sony reduced the price of the Playstation, Sega would have to follow suit in order to stay competitive, but Saturn's high manufacturing cost would then translate into huge losses for the company." p170 Revolutionaries at Sony.

    "We ... put Sega out of the hardware business ..." Peter Dille senior vice president of marketing at Sony Computer Entertainment

  14. #284
    Hero of Algol TrekkiesUnite118's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    Which developer did Sega murder then?
    ...

    I think you've missed the point.

  15. #285
    Outrunner
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    What does that have to do with the court document that Trekkies is referring to? I posted from a quote taken from Alan Miller, who was one of Accolade's founders, not from court document. Do try to keep up!

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