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Thread: Mega Man X & Sega Genesis

  1. #346
    Outrunner EPSYLON EAGLE's Avatar
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    Praise to Tiago SC!

  2. #347
    Zebbe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamahl View Post
    Don't get me wrong, I love the song and it fits the game like a glove, but you really need to be ok with hearing some grating metallic sounds to enjoy it.
    War-like Requiem from the same game is a much better option if you want to show off "non-grating" metal on the genesis, or if you just want to show off the chip then one of the jazzy songs is a much better choice.
    I personally don't have a big problem with the grating metallic sounds, I'm more concerned about the FM drums not having enough power in them. But I still love the song and the last boss theme is also quite epic and sounds great, yeah.
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  3. #348
    Hero of Algol
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    I just hope he finishes the game.
    If at one point he had it running with XGM, I hope it's not too difficult to keep compatibility and just have two versions at the end of the development cycle.

    The version with Savage Regime's soundtrack is much better; the new rendition is technically OK but very annoying to listen to.

  4. #349
    Raging in the Streets Sik's Avatar
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    Making two versions of a game is a pain in the ass, especially when you need to make assets for both (・_・) (and if he gives in and asks for two versions with different sound drivers, what's gonna stop people from asking for different versions with 320px and 256px width, or with and without enhancements, etc. — this isn't Sonic 3 Complete with its build-a-ROM form)

  5. #350
    Death Bringer Raging in the Streets Black_Tiger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sik View Post
    Making two versions of a game is a pain in the ass, especially when you need to make assets for both (・_・) (and if he gives in and asks for two versions with different sound drivers, what's gonna stop people from asking for different versions with 320px and 256px width, or with and without enhancements, etc. — this isn't Sonic 3 Complete with its build-a-ROM form)
    Since he already made most of the game with XGM, with music, sound and voice effects, do you think he should just stick with it then?
    Quote Originally Posted by year2kill06
    everyone knows nintendo is far way cooler than sega just face it nintendo has more better games and originals

  6. #351
    Hero of Algol
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    Yeah, at this point I'd argue that developing a non-XGM version is actually the most time consuming effort.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't all the tracks already done by SR previously?

    Recomposing all tracks for a newly developed audio driver (which would be naive to suppose bug free or even stable at this point) doesn't seem logical if people are concerned with the amount of work involved (not that the developer himself have voiced such concern though).

  7. #352
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingNameless One retronostalgia's Avatar
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    It sounds like the reason that he re-wrote the sound driver, even though SR's tracks are excellent, is that he was running into limitations with the XGM driver. Specifically, it sounds like the XGM driver only allows for mono PCM sound effects, with no functionality for stereo or FM sound effects? I'm not an expert on this but if that's true then it's understandable.

  8. #353
    Hero of Algol
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    It's not that simple nor that reasonable.

    The YM2612 limits you to mono PCM playback, to begin with. So let's not imply it's a limitation introduced by the audio driver.
    The YM2612 also limits you to one PCM channel (and you sacrifice one FM channel to play PCM samples).

    The biggest advantage of XGM is that it allows you to have up to four PCM channels by multiplexing the single PCM channel that the YM2612 offers. And it also gives you far better PCM playback quality than the vast majority of the audio drivers from back in the days.

    Now, we're being told that XGM is being dropped because the developer wishes to have stereo FM sfx and the XGM doesn't support FM sfx (that's my understanding).
    OK great. But you also have to consider that when you're using FM channels for sfx you're also muting some music channels to allow that.

    With that in mind, I really don't think it's a great idea. If anything, the previous demos and Xeno Crisis are out there to show how good a game using XGM can sound, especially with SR tracks.

    Now, if you prefer to go back to the days of poor PCM playback with no concurrency support and FM sfx cutting off the music, that's OK too; but that's far from being an improvement IMHO regardless who's composing your soundtrack.

  9. #354
    Raging in the Streets Sik's Avatar
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    Technically PCM can be hard-panned just like all FM channels (this is how Phantasy Star II does the panning on the tom-toms) but yeah, it's not separate PCM streams for left and right channels.

    Also I kinda doubt that most tracks had been converted to XGM already.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post
    With that in mind, I really don't think it's a great idea. If anything, the previous demos and Xeno Crisis are out there to show how good a game using XGM can sound, especially with SR tracks.
    It also eats up a shitton of space. Also from what I recall there was some animosity about Xeno Crisis not having FM sound effects, and I know that people complain about the quality of the sound effects in Darius (which also uses XGM).

    And at this rate I'm surprised you aren't also screaming to go with Mega SD support for "high quality tracks" or whatever.

  10. #355
    Hero of Algol
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sik View Post
    It also eats up a shitton of space. Also from what I recall there was some animosity about Xeno Crisis not having FM sound effects, and I know that people complain about the quality of the sound effects in Darius (which also uses XGM).
    Xeno Crisis has been universally praised by its sound quality; I don't doubt there are complaints but certainly that's a very small minority.

    Darius didn't receive much coverage to begin with but the explosions do sound bad and all the sfx doesn't seem to be things that would require/best suit samples.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sik View Post
    And at this rate I'm surprised you aren't also screaming to go with Mega SD support for "high quality tracks" or whatever.
    You're obviously exaggerating the situation.
    Early demos used XGM and SR tracks, people like them.
    Now we had a change and looks like most people think it's a downgrade, so they're voicing their opinions accordingly.

  11. #356
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingRoad Rasher
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post
    It's not that simple nor that reasonable.

    The YM2612 limits you to mono PCM playback, to begin with. So let's not imply it's a limitation introduced by the audio driver.
    The YM2612 also limits you to one PCM channel (and you sacrifice one FM channel to play PCM samples).

    The biggest advantage of XGM is that it allows you to have up to four PCM channels by multiplexing the single PCM channel that the YM2612 offers. And it also gives you far better PCM playback quality than the vast majority of the audio drivers from back in the days.

    Now, we're being told that XGM is being dropped because the developer wishes to have stereo FM sfx and the XGM doesn't support FM sfx (that's my understanding).
    OK great. But you also have to consider that when you're using FM channels for sfx you're also muting some music channels to allow that.

    With that in mind, I really don't think it's a great idea. If anything, the previous demos and Xeno Crisis are out there to show how good a game using XGM can sound, especially with SR tracks.

    Now, if you prefer to go back to the days of poor PCM playback with no concurrency support and FM sfx cutting off the music, that's OK too; but that's far from being an improvement IMHO regardless who's composing your soundtrack.
    Pretty much this.

    I can only think that size must be an issue. Honestly, that should be the only issue. But I mean, if you're gonna re-write an engine at least make it better than what you're replacing. It's not like the hard panned dual mono of the Genesis is desirable (it's horrible for music, especially for listening with head phones).

  12. #357
    Hero of Algol Kamahl's Avatar
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    I remember people complaining about the Megaman X4 sfx on youtube, but that's unrelated to the sound driver. You could grab the original SNES sfx instead and be done with it.
    Honestly Tiago's music also sounds fine to me, more than it being a downgrade I worry about him wasting way too much time tweaking FM parameters and tinkering with his driver to get things sounding just right instead of finishing an already challenging project.

    I've had many personal projects ruined by that type of stuff.

  13. #358
    Outrunner
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sik View Post
    Also from what I recall there was some animosity about Xeno Crisis not having FM sound effects
    If Xeno Crisis deserves any criticism (and that is indeed *if*) then it’s surely not in the audio department. The game sounds phenomenal.

  14. #359
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingNameless One retronostalgia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post
    It's not that simple nor that reasonable.

    The YM2612 limits you to mono PCM playback, to begin with. So let's not imply it's a limitation introduced by the audio driver.
    The YM2612 also limits you to one PCM channel (and you sacrifice one FM channel to play PCM samples).

    The biggest advantage of XGM is that it allows you to have up to four PCM channels by multiplexing the single PCM channel that the YM2612 offers. And it also gives you far better PCM playback quality than the vast majority of the audio drivers from back in the days.

    Now, we're being told that XGM is being dropped because the developer wishes to have stereo FM sfx and the XGM doesn't support FM sfx (that's my understanding).
    OK great. But you also have to consider that when you're using FM channels for sfx you're also muting some music channels to allow that.

    With that in mind, I really don't think it's a great idea. If anything, the previous demos and Xeno Crisis are out there to show how good a game using XGM can sound, especially with SR tracks.

    Now, if you prefer to go back to the days of poor PCM playback with no concurrency support and FM sfx cutting off the music, that's OK too; but that's far from being an improvement IMHO regardless who's composing your soundtrack.
    Interesting, thanks for the info.

    Regardless of how it's done, what I'm rooting for is just for the project to succeed and be finished, one way or another... and if the source code ever gets released, that'd be even cooler. :-)

  15. #360
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingNameless One retronostalgia's Avatar
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    Another option besides XGM and rolling-your-own sound driver: "AMPS 2.0": Anyone in the know have an opinion on this?

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