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Thread: Baloo. Feeble minded moderating, par for his course.

  1. #16
    Master of Shinobi Zz Badnusty's Avatar
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    Let's see here: We have a moderator misconstruing a topic to be about censoring the internet, and then he censors the internet by shutting down a discussion. It sure isn't the first time he's done it. (completely failing to understand what a discussion was about)
    He would sure censor the internet if someone starting using n****r in their speech.
    But this was never about censoring; it was about my opinion and experience with the phrase butthurt. It wasn't about being offended, it's not about being angry.I felt no anger or offense. It's about how weak and juvenile the phrase butthurt is when it repeatedly comes up in gaming forums.
    It is not surprising that some of you would take up a crusade to relish in your continued use of the phrase.

    Did Baloo give red cards to Treckies or others for intentionally trying to derail the subject or for intentionally posting mean and spiteful images?

  2. #17
    Pirate King Phantar's Avatar
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    You know, I have no idea what discussion you're talking about, but for someone complaining about a juvenile Phrase, you’re acting pretty immature yourself. A thread gets locked, a thread where, as you say yourself, several people derailed it or acted spiteful . Did Baloo delete any posts. Did a moderator edit any of your Statements against your will? Are the posts you made in that thread still there? Well, than that's not censorship! If people keep shitting into a Swimmingpool, and the pool supervisor closed the pool because people kept shitting in it, I wouldn't call it censorship because he kept people from shitting wherever they want.

    Also, being pissed about a moderator and thus deciding to publically call him out? I now many other forums (or subreddits) Where such behavior would get you banned instantly, and yet here you are, complaining about perceived censorship on this forum? Talk about frigging irony...
    The funny thing about an oxymoron is, even if you remove the ox, there'll always be a moron. The Question Remains: Y?

  3. #18
    Raging in the Streets goldenband's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melf View Post
    No more than any other forum. I do find it interesting that many people complain about the quality of the forum, as though they really care, yet they have no problem simply leaving if they don't agree with what's posted. So much for caring.
    Unfortunately a bunch of posters are mainly here to shit-stir and cause problems, and don't really care about the forum (or even Sega for that matter). A couple have even said so outright -- that they're amused by creating forum drama & actively seek opportunities to incite it, and it's what they're here for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Melf View Post
    Maybe if more people reported posts or even volunteered to mod, things wouldn't be so "bad." Instead, I see tons of complaints for every one report, and no one wants to help out. It's like the people who spend years complaining about a particular game not being reviewed, but they won't review it themselves. Complaining is just so much easier.
    Indeed -- doing anything worthwhile takes effort, while complaining and shit-stirring are mindless. However, I've gotta say that multiple mods have complained when people report posts, and basically said they resent being asked to babysit, so there's some mixed messages going on there.

    Personally I would've been more than happy to see the thread locked when Segadream started praising the Nazis (!), but I also understand Zz Badnusty's irritation at repeatedly being misrepresented.

  4. #19
    The medium-sized mang. Raging in the Streets Lastcallhall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldenband View Post
    Unfortunately a bunch of posters are mainly here to shit-stir and cause problems, and don't really care about the forum (or even Sega for that matter). A couple have even said so outright -- that they're amused by creating forum drama & actively seek to create it, and it's what they're here for.



    Indeed -- doing anything worthwhile takes effort, while complaining and shit-stirring are mindless. However, I've gotta say that multiple mods have complained when people report posts, and basically said they resent being asked to babysit, so there's some mixed messages going on there.

    Personally I would've been more than happy to see the thread locked when Segadream started praising the Nazis (!), but I also understand Zz Badnusty's irritation at repeatedly being misrepresented.
    But there's nothing to misrepresent. I could understand if ZZ was upset about the use of the n word, or any other racial or homophobic remark - some word that's original intent was meant to slander, oppress, denigrate, or otherwise insult someone else based on prejudice. Butthurt doesn't even fall into that same category. ZZ's feeling were hurt, and to my knowledge that's not against the law in most civilized countries. The entire thread was only inviting teasing and mockery because it's a non-issue, period. You can't expect to go around saying, "My feelings are hurt because I misinterpreted the meaning of word X, now no one should enjoy or use it EVAR," without experiencing some backlash.

  5. #20
    Raging in the Streets goldenband's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lastcallhall View Post
    But there's nothing to misrepresent.
    Yes, there is: Zz never called for anyone to "censor" anybody. Reread his first post in the original thread, it's 100% a polite request for people to think about what they're saying, and nothing more -- yet people (including Baloo) kept claiming that he was demanding to "censor the Internet". That's a misrepresentation, if not a straight-up lie.

    (EDIT: To be clear, I don't think Baloo was lying -- just reading too casually, or with preconceptions. But I think other posters were deliberately misrepresenting Zz's post because they instantly went into "Waah waah nobody tells me what to say!" mode at even the barest thought of being asked to see other people as human beings and check their own verbiage.)
    Last edited by goldenband; 07-26-2015 at 06:30 PM.

  6. #21
    The medium-sized mang. Raging in the Streets Lastcallhall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldenband View Post
    Yes, there is: Zz never called for anyone to "censor" anybody. Reread his first post in the original thread, it's 100% a polite request for people to think about what they're saying, and nothing more -- yet people (including Baloo) kept claiming that he was demanding to "censor the Internet". That's a misrepresentation, if not a straight-up lie.

    (EDIT: To be clear, I don't think Baloo was lying -- just reading too casually, or with preconceptions. But I think other posters were deliberately misrepresenting Zz's post because they instantly went into "Waah waah nobody tells me what to say!" mode at even the barest thought of being asked to see other people as human beings and check their own verbiage.)
    Censorship means to suppress or otherwise discard in favor of other politically correct terms, right? I'm asking a serious question here. Because, that's how - and I can't/won't speak for Baloo - it comes across: an (forced) invitation to suppress a term that one feels uncomfortable hearing, in order to push across a politically correct mindset which we all know doesn't work on the internet. I'm not one to get into flame wars (often), but this is ridiculous. The topic could have been brought up in a better way, such as an open discussion on what we all think the term means, it's implications in society, etc. Instead there's this veneer of a guilt trip laid over the whole first post, as if anyone who doesn't jump onto the PC bandwagon automatically makes them vulgar assholes.

  7. #22
    Raging in the Streets goldenband's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lastcallhall View Post
    Censorship means to suppress or otherwise discard in favor of other politically correct terms, right? I'm asking a serious question here.
    Eh, I think it's ahistorical to talk about "censorship" when there's no threat of force behind the action. If Zz Badnusty were everyone's boss, or even a site mod, it'd be one thing. But he has no power to force anyone to do what he's requesting; he's not threatening to get people fired, let alone to imprison them or worse. He simply said, basically speaking, that he thinks the term sucks on multiple levels and wishes people would reconsider using it.

    Calling something like that "censorship" is melodramatic whining from overprivileged man-children, IMHO. And the biggest irony of all is that they end up resembling the SJWs they so often decry! "Waah, waah, it's censorship when someone tells me they wish I didn't say 'butthurt'" sounds an awful lot like "Waah, waah, you're oppressing me by not respecting my magical unicorn otherkin two-spirit identity" from here.

  8. #23
    The medium-sized mang. Raging in the Streets Lastcallhall's Avatar
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    I can see your point. Still, there were better ways for both sides to go about this on the original thread, and making a second thread to complain about something that should have been done privately speaks more to me about the OPs original intent as he won't let the issue die a quiet death, or at the very least handle personally between he and Baloo.

    All I'm saying is that if you're going to start complaining about every wrong thing someone says on the internet, you damn well better have skin thicker than Amber Rose.

  9. #24
    Hero of Algol
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldenband View Post
    Yes, there is: Zz never called for anyone to "censor" anybody.
    Indeed but, please, don't ignore these phrases yourself:
    "As for your homophobic, ass rape,hemorrhoid internet dude bust; please consider a more thoughtful means of expressing your dismissal of other people's opinions."
    "Maybe you'll grow up one day and understand, Quickscifi."
    "It says plenty about all of you " grown adults " who apparently relish in using a phrase such as butt hurt."
    "Keep on rolling in your own feces."
    "Other than simple mindedness, I'm not sure why you guys feel this is a matter of being offended.
    I pointed out that the phrase is childish and in poor taste, and can carry needlessly disparaging connotations.
    Good excuse to further lower yourselves."
    "Kamahl, at age 25 you should begin to try to converse like an adult.
    Of course the internet gives us a playground to fuck around, and if you really think the phrase "butthurt" is the best way you can express yourself, then, well, have at it. But you're only being the fool yourself."

    Those can be found in Zz posts in that thread. That's pretty high horse, negative and aggressive stuff if you ask me.


    Quote Originally Posted by goldenband View Post
    But I think other posters were deliberately misrepresenting Zz's post because they instantly went into "Waah waah nobody tells me what to say!" mode at even the barest thought of being asked to see other people as human beings and check their own verbiage.)
    I'd say both you and Zz sounded like painting yourselves as the superior minds in the thread but you also made a lot of assumptions, as the quote above shows.

    Both me and Kamahl aren't native English speakers, so the term "butthurt" isn't something we hear all that often unless we're looking at stuff on the Internet.
    To be very honest, the first time I saw the term being use was here at Sega-16. And it was using one of those Dawson's Creek gifs.

    There's no way in hell you or Zz or anybody else - superior minded or not - will convince me that I should quit using it because it's associated to "homophobic, ass rape, hemorrhoid"; it simply makes no sense to me whatsoever. It's not a question if you're right or wrong, it simply doesn't make sense to me.
    I also don't have the exact measure of how childish and repetitive it sounds to you both because it simply isn't part of my life. Heck, I never heard someone speaking "butthurt" in person.
    So gimme a break with this bs and remember it's just a freakin Internet forum which is supposed to be dedicated to GAMES.


    I find all this shit really stubborn to no end. So much time, effort and attention spent by all of us in such a shitty topic which will bring NOTHING of value to our community IMHO.

    My advice keeps being the same to all of you: Don't like Sega-16? Leave it. Don't like my posts/ideas/whatever? Put me on your ignore list.


    Talking about censorship, Off Topic section of the forum is nothing but a shithole most of the time and it seems to attract a lot of people who only post there and only post crap IMO. I wouldn't just lock some threads there, I'd get rid of it entirely if I was a mod (thank God, I'm not).


    And this is coming from a guy who doesn't like Baloo's moderation and who likes Zz a lot.
    Last edited by Barone; 07-26-2015 at 07:06 PM.

  10. #25
    Raging in the Streets goldenband's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lastcallhall View Post
    All I'm saying is that if you're going to start complaining about every wrong thing someone says on the internet, you damn well better have skin thicker than Amber Rose.
    True. At the same time, even the most freewheeling forum has unwritten rules, whether we admit it or not. Most of us would be grossed out if someone started posting graphic rape fantasies about Sonic, right? If we don't accept anything and everything -- if we delete things for any reason other than legality -- then we have some sort of contract about what we do and don't want on the site.

    That means two things: one, we do in fact "censor" things that violate that contract; and two, the rules of the contract are up for negotiation. But only up to a point, since this is a benevolent dictatorship after all.

  11. #26
    Raging in the Streets goldenband's Avatar
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    @Barone: Hey, I never said I thought Zz's reactions were a model of perfection. I just found the self-satisfied circlejerk of Freedom(TM) to be far more irritating. I disagreed with Kamahl but wasn't actually offended by his posts -- at least he was trying to think through the whole thing in a human way.

    (I don't care one way or the other about "butthurt", BTW, though I maintain it does have rape connotations -- some people sure as hell use it that way, at least.)

    As for our community, I honestly think the biggest problem here -- maybe on the whole Internet -- is that people behave badly because they use the Internet as a place to run their mouth without consequences, and do things they'd be too cowardly to ever do in real life. A lot of the most loud-mouthed people online are nerds who weren't brave enough to stand up to bullies (or their abusive fathers, or whatever) when they were younger, and now they throw insults safely out of range of their oppressors as a way of making up for it. I think there are a few people like that here, and I think they want to ruin the site, just as they ruin everything they come into contact with.

    I know you favor restrained moderation; I used to agree, but personally am starting to see the virtue in aggressive moderation that brings down the hammer on anyone who talks to someone in a way they wouldn't do if they were face-to-face -- and both people were armed. If someone wouldn't say it to an armed man's face, but would say it to someone over the Internet, isn't that pretty much the definition of cowardice? Heinlein once wrote that "an armed society is a polite society", and while I don't 100% agree there's at least some truth there. Civility is a sign of strength; it's rudeness that's a sign of weakness.

    BTW agreed that Off Topic is a shithole. The politics thread is worst of all.

    Anyway, I'm all for people here putting more effort into creating and discussing worthwhile content related to Sega. I just wish I thought they'd actually do it -- outside of a handful of people who consistently do good stuff, including yourself.
    Last edited by goldenband; 07-26-2015 at 07:28 PM.

  12. #27
    Hero of Algol
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldenband View Post
    @Barone: Hey, I never said I thought Zz's reactions were a model of perfection. I just found the self-satisfied circlejerk of Freedom(TM) to be far more irritating.
    I understand that but I like when people are coherent.
    The thread was conduct by himself in a negative, passive-aggressive and high horse manner since the very beginning IMO.
    When I first read the OP I knew it would turn into a shitstorm and I knew it would get locked. We gotta be realistic about what to expect from what we post and from our audience.
    My own experience tells me that if you feed Sega-16 members with anger and negativity you'll get it back, amp'ed by something like 10 times. If you don't want to deal with it, don't get the ball rolling to begin with.


    Quote Originally Posted by goldenband View Post
    As for our community, I honestly think the biggest problem here -- maybe on the whole Internet -- is that people behave badly because they use the Internet as a place to run their mouth without consequences, and do things they'd be too cowardly to ever do in real life. A lot of the most loud-mouthed people online are nerds who weren't brave enough to stand up to bullies (or their abusive fathers, or whatever) when they were younger, and now they throw insults safely out of range of their oppressors as a way of making up for it. I think there are a few people like that here, and I think they want to ruin the site, just as they ruin everything they come into contact with.
    There are many valid ways to see it, and I partly agree with yours.
    But, to me, the attention whores, the selfish fools; those guys are always bringing the bad shit. When you go to a place like the 3DO forums, which isn't even listed on Google search anymore, you realize how the attention thing plays a part.


    Quote Originally Posted by goldenband View Post
    I know you favor restrained moderation; I used to agree, but personally am starting to see the virtue in aggressive moderation that brings down the hammer on anyone who talks to someone in a way they wouldn't do if they were face-to-face -- and both people were armed. If someone wouldn't say it to an armed man's face, but would say it to someone over the Internet, isn't that pretty much the definition of cowardice? Heinlein once wrote that "an armed society is a polite society", and while I don't 100% agree there's at least some truth there.
    I'd be more concerned about the MrSegas and RPGBandits myself than language moderation.
    Right now we have at least a half-dozen of guys which are pretty active here and are self-declared trolls and/or Sega haters and/or don't play/like old games. IMO that's the cancer of a fansite like this, but that's just my opinion.


    Quote Originally Posted by goldenband View Post
    BTW agreed that Off Topic is a shithole. The politics thread is worst of all.
    Every time I dare to read some posts there I get saddened.


    Quote Originally Posted by goldenband View Post
    Anyway, I'm all for people here putting more effort into creating and discussing worthwhile content related to Sega. I just wish I thought they'd actually do it -- outside of a handful of people who consistently do good stuff, including yourself.
    Thanks and I have the same opinion about you.
    But everyone needs to try to do his best, including me. I've already lost way too much time (from me and others) with negative shit and overly stupid flame wars during all these years myself.
    Last edited by Barone; 07-26-2015 at 07:39 PM.

  13. #28
    Raging in the Streets goldenband's Avatar
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    I think we're mostly in agreement here , and 100% agreed with this in particular:

    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post
    Right now we have at least a half-dozen of guys which are pretty active here and are self-declared trolls and/or Sega haters and/or don't play/like old games. IMO that's the cancer of a fansite like this, but that's just my opinion.
    Add to that the posters who have deliberately tried to start flamewars between Sega-16 and NintendoAge, Neo-Geo, etc., and you've pretty much got 75% of the site's problems right there.

    (EDIT: But you've really identified the main problem. In literally every online community I've ever seen, most of the drama revolves around the people who aren't even interested in the community's reason for existing, but are there just for social reasons or to shit-stir.)
    Last edited by goldenband; 07-26-2015 at 07:48 PM.

  14. #29
    Blast processor Melf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldenband View Post
    However, I've gotta say that multiple mods have complained when people report posts, and basically said they resent being asked to babysit, so there's some mixed messages going on there.
    This is a problem we've always had, and a reason why some former mods have soured on the community and decided to leave (a rather stupid reason, I think). You don't become a mod just to be able to ban anyone you want; there's responsibility. Often, people want to become mods and then don't like the fact that they actually have to mod the forum. Modding is often a thankless job, but that's obvious coming in. If you don't want to do the work, don't ask to become a mod. It's the same reason why I don't actively seek staff members anymore. With the exception of a handful, most of those who asked to become staff just upped and vanished when they realized they actually had to write regularly. I've had people hound me to make them staff and then not even contribute to the Reader Roundtable.

    I commend Baloo for doing what moderators are actually supposed to do: mod. You may not like how he does it sometimes, but at least he's doing it. Most other moderators just quit.

  15. #30
    Raging in the Streets goldenband's Avatar
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    ^For every controversial drama, there are no doubt 100+ member approvals, spam deletions, and other invisible duties. Being a mod is indeed a thankless job, and while there are a few users I can think of who'd be reliable and fair, I'm not sure I'd want to darken their lives with the task.

    (Maybe there could be a mod who only handles new member approvals? That's a low-drama task, at least.)

    On that topic: at some point, I'd welcome an update on what the site's biggest needs are right now, whether it's specific content, $$$ donations, users to do X, or whatever. That probably needs a thread of its own, of course.

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