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Thread: Twilight Princess HD (Wii U)

  1. #61
    Antiquing Hedgehog Lord QuickSciFi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azonicrider View Post
    I have gained the sudden urge to look up that game.
    Highly recommended, broham.

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    Raging in the Streets xelement5x's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuickSciFi View Post
    Yes. A Boy and His Blob was the reason why I finally bought the Wii. Great title. No motion gimmick at all.
    I second this. I was keeping an eye out on it for awhile and grabbed my copy when Gamestop was it was relatively cheap.
    Quote Originally Posted by StarMist View Post
    A spine card is the hymen of a new game assuring its first owner that he is truly her one and only, and of a used game assuring its new owner that whilst she has been played with in the past that play has never been too careless or thorough.

  3. #63
    End of line.. Hero of Algol gamevet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118 View Post
    So now you're going to resort to putting words in my mouth. I never said the PS3 wasn't the lead platform. In fact in the post above I flat out admitted it was the lead platform. You're being stubborn and idiotic here and are flat out saying that Square Enix is lying,
    First off, there's nothing idiotic about what I'm saying. The PS3 was the lead platform, period. The game was an exclusive for the PS3 and the white engine was designed for the PS3 1st and then it was changed to the Crystal engine so that they could port their games across multiple platforms. What part of that suggests that the PC was the platform where Final Fantasy XIII started development on?


    The flaw in your logic here is that you are using the flaws of the later PC release as evidence that the game wasn't made on PC first. News flash, a game can be developed on PC first with the intent of it being released only on a console with that console being considered the lead and all optimizations being aimed at that platform. That is exactly the case that happened with FF13. It was developed on PC first, then ported to PS3 and 360 with all optimizations being aimed at those two platforms. No effort was put in to making the PC build run well or support multiple resolutions or better rendering modes, because they had no intention of releasing it. It was simply an internal development build for their developers to test things without having to do a full build and deploy it to a PS3 devkit. Devkits are expensive, and when you have a team of over a hundred people working on a game, it's much more cost effective for them to be able to run and test the game on the computers their developing on than to buy each and every one of them a PS3 devkit. You're not however going to put much effort into polishing that build if you have no intention of releasing it.
    News flash, the 360 and PS3 are based around Power PC hardware. It would make absolutely no sense to develop a PS3 game using X86 code. That's why many PC games that were developed for the consoles 1st, ran like crap on decent PC hardware. When Wii U development started, developers didn't have developer kits to work with, so they used MACs with hardware that they thought matched that of the Wii U.

    Yeah, the Crystal Engine allowed them to create character models, sound assets and objects using a PC, and then transfer them over to various platforms. It most certainly did not create a game with X86 code to run on Power PC hardware that the PS3, 360 and Wii could use. There's absolutely no reason for the PC version to be running in 720p, if the game had a complete build for the PC.


    So now you're saying Digital Foundry are liars?:

    As I said, there are dips on both versions during gameplay, but the 360 seems to do it less as the Digital Foundry video shows. However during real time cutscenes the PS3 version dips pretty badly, especially during closeups of the characters.
    No, I'm saying it's not a constant issue. It's a specific situation that does not encompass the entire gameplay experience. It's not something that happens on a massive scale. I'm pretty sure that the 360 version would have tanked if it was running at 720p.




    I think you have a reading comprehension problem. It clearly says that while it started as a PS3 engine, the decision was made later to make it work on multiple platforms:



    That decision was made all the way back in 2006. 3 years before the game came out. And what other game used that? Oh why Final Fantasy 14, the game you mentioned was made with PC as the lead platform. If that game was designed with PC in mind, and Crystal Tools was a PS3 only engine, why on earth would they use it for FF14? The fact is, Crystal Tools was not something made to port FF13 to other platforms, it is the engine that runs FF13 on all platforms, including the PS3. As the wiki states, it was decided early on to make it a multiplatform engine that all Square Enix projects could use.
    It's a engine that allows them to scale the character models, game assets and textures to multiple platforms. It's no different than EA's Frostbite engine. PC gamers have been bitching about EA's games for quite some time, because the assets used in the PC builds were obviously brought over from the console lead platform.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frostbite_(game_engine)

    At the end of the day, you're wrong on this one. The facts from all the interviews and info we have state this:

    • Crystal Tools while originally a PS3 engine was made multiplatform way back in 2006.
    • PS3 was the lead platform on all 3 FF13 games.
    • That said, Final Fantasy 13, 13-2, and Lighting Returns were all developed on PC first, then ported down to consoles. This was most likely to make development cheaper and easier.
    • That PC build, was never optimized or made to run better than the target platform, the PS3. Most likely because there was no intent to release it.
    • That Development Build was later released with little polish, and as a result runs poorly with few rendering options.



    I don't get why this is such a hard concept for you to understand. These developers are going to be programming these games on PCs anyways, it makes sense to have the game run on PC in some form to speed up development and cut costs on dev systems. This way you're developers can rapidly test and develop things without having to do a build and put it on a console to test, and the company can save money by only having a small number of console devkits for the few working on taking the PC baseline and getting it working on the target platform. This way you can have two teams, one working on the game logic and pushing forward without having to deal with hardware hiccups, and you have a hardware team working on doing all the hardware optimization and rendering code.
    They built the assets using PC, and those assets were setup for the lead platform. That is why the PC version of FFXIII is at 720p, while the assets for FFXIV were built around the PC and then scaled down to the consoles. There's absolutely no reason for the PC version of FFXIII to be at 720p, if the game was designed around that platform. It wasn't built for the PC, and was a quick and dirty port to the platform.

    http://www.pcgamer.com/final-fantasy-xiii-review/

    Quote Originally Posted by pcgamer
    Final Fantasy XIII has forgotten it’s on PC, too. When I hit the settings menu to change resolutions from the automated 720p to 1080p, there is no way to do so. When I want to fiddle with the settings to sort out the crosshatching hair effects, there’s no option of that nature. Final Fantasy XIII has no graphics options, locking itself at 720p. In the field—and by field, I mean a shiny corridor with three guys in it—FFXIII can even drop to below 20fps on my mid-range Radeon card. It’s not an unplayable port or anything, it’s just so far off the ideal and closer to the flawed 360 version in performance. Very occasionally it’ll hit 60fps in environments and cutscenes but the port seems to be locked at 30 during combat, minus the Paradigm Shift animations. The exotic character designs and frequently inventive art direction represent a peak for the series—they’re just not at their best on PC.
    Oh look, even the PC version has the fps dropping down to 20 fps.



    Being PS3 exclusive is irrelevant here. From a development standpoint the above scenario makes perfect sense. You can keep pushing forward on getting the actual game portion done, while another team works on system specific code.
    It isn't irrelevant, because the PC version should not have been gimped, if it really was the platform that they had developed the game for.
    Last edited by gamevet; 11-23-2015 at 01:23 AM.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



  4. #64
    Hero of Algol TrekkiesUnite118's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    First off, there's nothing idiotic about what I'm saying. The PS3 was the lead platform, period.
    And I'm not debating that. I'm pointing out that the game was made on PCs first, as Square Enix has said.

    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    The game was an exclusive for the PS3 and the white engine was designed for the PS3 1st and then it was changed to the Crystal engine so that they could port their games across multiple platforms.
    It wasn't changed to a different engine. The White Engine evolved into Crystal Tools and was made multiplatform. FF14 originally used it and it was on PC. The 360 versions of FF13, 13-2 and Lightning Returns use it. DragonQuest X on the Wii and Wii U use it as well. It's a multiplatform engine. Plain and simple.

    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    What part of that suggests that the PC was the platform where Final Fantasy XIII started development on?
    The fact that Square Enix flat out admitted it in an interview?

    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    News flash, the 360 and PS3 are based around Power PC hardware. It would make absolutely no sense to develop a PS3 game using X86 code. That's why many PC games that were developed for the consoles 1st, ran like crap on decent PC hardware. When Wii U development started, developers didn't have developer kits to work with, so they used MACs with hardware that they thought matched that of the Wii U.
    It does when you're working on a multiplatform engine and you need to be able to push forward developing the core game for multiple platforms. Think about it. Your game logic, the scripting, the animations, etc. are all platform independent. The only things you really need to work on for the PS3 is the hardware specifc code like your renders, your I/O code, memory management, etc. So would it not make sense to have your engine work on PCs so your team that's scripting out the game, the story, making animations, tweaking the battle system, etc. can test what they're working on independent of how far along the PS3 hardware code is?


    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    Yeah, the Crystal Engine allowed them to create character models, sound assets and objects using a PC, and then transfer them over to various platforms. It most certainly did not create a game with X86 code to run on Power PC hardware that the PS3, 360 and Wii could use. There's absolutely no reason for the PC version to be running in 720p, if the game had a complete build for the PC.
    When your maximum target for release is 720p it does make sense. Again, the PC build was not intended to be released. It existed for development purposes. FF14 is proof that Crystal Tools was developed to work on x86 architecture as well as PowerPC, since the original release ran in Crystal Tools. And it's development started way back in 2005.

    Here's an interview from February of 2008, where it was mentioned already that Crystal Tools was a multiplatform engine that was targeting PC, 360, and PS3, with Wii support being added in:

    http://www.1up.com/news/exclusive-ffxiii-interview

    So by this point it was already obvious that Crystal Tools was running on PC. How much more evidence do you need?

    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    No, I'm saying it's not a constant issue. It's a specific situation that does not encompass the entire gameplay experience. It's not something that happens on a massive scale.
    Ok? The point is that there were some minor perks for the 360 version running at sub 720p. A slightly better frame rate in some parts and free AA were pretty much it.


    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    It's a engine that allows them to scale the character models, game assets and textures to multiple platforms. It's no different than EA's Frostbite engine. PC gamers have been bitching about EA's games for quite some time, because the assets used in the PC builds were obviously brought over from the console lead platform.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frostbite_(game_engine)
    And? That doesn't disprove anything I've mentioned. If anything it confirms it. If EA is going to have their PC builds use the same assets as their console targets why is it so absurd for Square Enix to do the same thing?

    Crystal Tools is a multiplatform middleware engine. Game logic can be developed on it independently from hardware specific code. It makes perfect sense to have a build on PC to allow game logic developers a way to test their code without having to spend money on a PS3 devkit for each and every one of them.

    They built the assets using PC, and those assets were setup for the lead platform. That is why the PC version of FFXIII is at 720p, while the assets for FFXIV were built around the PC and then scaled down to the consoles. There's absolutely no reason for the PC version of FFXIII to be at 720p, if the game was designed around that platform. It wasn't built for the PC, and was a quick and dirty port to the platform.

    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    It isn't irrelevant, because the PC version should not have been gimped, if it really was the platform that they had developed the game for.
    And here it finally comes out. The communication break down that stems from your failed reading comprehension. I never said PC was the lead platform for FF13. I didn't even say it was the main platform they developed the game for. I simply said it was developed on PCs first, then ported to the lead platforms. Think about this and what's different here and it should eventually click for you.

    Since you probably wont do that I'll spell it out for you. One is saying that PC was the lead platform and FF13 was developed with the best that platform has to offer in mind. The other is saying that FF13 was developed on PCs as a development tool and cheap alternative to PS3 devkits while the PS3 specific code was still being finished. One is a fully polished build with the intent of being released, the other is a tool for developers on one team to use while another team works on the console specific code. I'm saying FF13 was the latter.

  5. #65
    Raging in the Streets
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    Doesn't really matter in the end how it's done, FF13 is one of the most horrendous PC ports ever and I can't believe anyone actually bought it.

  6. #66
    Underground Sega Nut BonusKun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gogogadget View Post
    Doesn't really matter in the end how it's done, FF13 is one of the most horrendous PC ports ever and I can't believe anyone actually bought it.
    I thought that last Batman Arkham game held that #1 spot now for terrible PC ports...
    05/05/15

  7. #67
    Raging in the Streets
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    Quote Originally Posted by BonusKun View Post
    I thought that last Batman Arkham game held that #1 spot now for terrible PC ports...
    Runs at 60fps near constant for me on Ultra.

    People need to upgrade their rigs, or sort whatever issues they have out. It's unstable as all hell and it's a shit port but I refuse to believe unless you're way under recommended that it's 'unplayable', it has no SLI support but SLI is shaky either way.

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