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Thread: Why is S-Video always so undermined?

  1. #16
    WCPO Agent roadkill's Avatar
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    I must admit I'm surprised by the responses in this topic, but also I like the responses I'm getting. When I first joined this forum to get help on how to mod my Genesis for S-Video, I had a bunch of people reply with "don't bother, RGB is better, just go out and buy an RGB SCART to component/HDMI box"... well a response pretty much along those lines. And then there would be responses bashing S-Video. But I wanted S-Video because my HDTV is an older HDTV that still has two S-Video inputs, so I didn't see the point in getting an external box to convert RGB to component or HDMI. None of my HDTVs through their component input could even support the Genesis' RGB signal on 240p and the other resolutions it uses.

    I did once try out that $50 RGB SCART to HDMI box that's sold all over ebay and amazon, but the input lag was horrendous on it, I felt like I may as well have been using an emulator (or a Retron 5 )

  2. #17

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    Depends on the console really. N64 has so much inherent bluriness in the image no matter what signal you use.
    But the Genesis on the other hand is totally worth going RGB.
    I have an S-video modded Atari jr. and it looks great and see no point in modding for RGB.

    But sometimes you get the upgrade bug and just want to try out better options too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flygon View Post
    S-Video doesn't have issues with colour encoding between 50/60Hz, however. The colour subcarrier issue only happens through Composite.

    S-Video has Luma and Chroma on separate pins.
    I think he meant that S-Video is still PAL or NTSC dependent, RGB is RGB there is no PAL or NTSC colour, for a modded PAL Megadrive 60Hz with no crystal mod will still result in a black and white picture unless you use RGB.

  4. #19
    urusei yatsura Master of Shinobi lumclaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Tiger View Post
    If by "turbo" you mean TG-16/PC Engine, the best they can do without mods is composite. It was very good quality for the time though.
    Pretty much. RGB is found at the expansion port, but a basic job would sacrifice the ability to play CD games. Plus trying to make a lasting cable that won't bend the pins...
    Last edited by lumclaw; 01-08-2017 at 08:12 PM.

  5. #20
    Extreme Procrastinator Master of Shinobi Flygon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by t0nito View Post
    I think he meant that S-Video is still PAL or NTSC dependent, RGB is RGB there is no PAL or NTSC colour, for a modded PAL Megadrive 60Hz with no crystal mod will still result in a black and white picture unless you use RGB.
    I don't have a Crystal Mod, and S-Video works out just fine on either 50Hz or 60Hz. Composite? Sure, that's fucked, unless it goes through the 32x's transcoder, but S-Video is perfectly fine regardless.

    Regaridng the TurboGrafx.

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    End of line.. Hero of Algol gamevet's Avatar
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    I have the Turbo-Booster for my TG-16. It does a pretty good job, even though the video is only composite. It looks pretty good on my 32" Sony Hi-Scan CRT.

    I see a massive improvement in video quality with that CRT, using S-Video for my SNES, while I see next to no improvement with the N64.
    Last edited by gamevet; 01-09-2017 at 01:13 AM.
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  7. #22
    urusei yatsura Master of Shinobi lumclaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flygon View Post
    I don't have a Crystal Mod, and S-Video works out just fine on either 50Hz or 60Hz. Composite? Sure, that's fucked, unless it goes through the 32x's transcoder, but S-Video is perfectly fine regardless.

    Regaridng the TurboGrafx.
    I suppose S-Video from PAL consoles at 60hz might work on some TVs with the original crystal.
    But an NTSC Genesis at 50hz would be trying to output NTSC50.

  8. #23
    Raging in the Streets Thunderblaze16's Avatar
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    The image quality blows me away going from compo to s-video

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    Raging in the Streets Thierry Henry's Avatar
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    ^^
    Exactly.

    The one poster (was it this thread or some other thread?) that stated the difference was more obvious going from S-Vid to RGB rather than Composite to S-Video. Personally, I don't go along with that.




    Composite









    S-Video


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    Mega Driven Raging in the Streets cleeg's Avatar
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    I've only ever seen screenshots of S Video on the internet; living in the UK I've been lucky enough to have RGB out of the box but I must say that I would be more than happy with S Video, and wouldn't bust a gut to obtain RGB if that was all I had.

    It's like some games on the PS3 with multiple resolutions, Virtua Fighter 5 for example, look better to me in 720p over 1080p (using a 1080 LCDTV). Although using the corresponding resolutions should give a better picture, it looks 'grainier' somehow at the higher setting. It must be something to do with how the TV scales the 720p image and smooths it a bit or something, I don't know.

    The 'best' option isn't always, subjectivity matters a lot when it comes to this kind of thing but if it's possible to obtain the methods that achieve the nicest picture (in this case RGB) without going to the ends of the Earth it's usually most preferable way to go. But often, just enough is also every bit good enough.

  11. #26
    Creator of the Mega Amp Raging in the Streets Ace's Avatar
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    I use most systems with RGB, but there are some where I'm fine with even using Composite such as the NES. In other instances, however, S-Video is really the preferred signal. One of my Philips VG-8020 MSX computers has been modded for NTSC S-Video (its VDP, the TMS9128, outputs Component natively, but it's such a pain in the rear to get good Component or RGB output that it's just not worth the hassle) and it looks so damn clear, it may as well be RGB. The Nintendo 64 is another system where using RGB isn't always ideal as some games just end up looking really ugly with cleaner video signals. S-Video provides a good middle-ground, in my experience. Hell, I wouldn't even use RGB on an Atari console (unless it's the Jaguar, but I care so little about this system, I have no intention of even owning one)!

    Now I know you can get S-Video out of the PC Engine, but the system's internal encoding is odd. If you have an RGB-modded PC Engine or TurboGrafx 16, you will have likely noticed that the colors look different in Composite than in RGB, with the colors looking like they're hue-shifted towards green slightly. I'd personally omit the internal encoding and encode S-Video from the RGB output using a CXA1645 or CXA2075 to get around the tinted colors of the PC Engine's internal encoding.

    But at the same time, I've noticed S-Video, particularly on a CRT, is lacking a bit in terms of clarity compared to even Component. On an HDMI converter, though, the difference is not as apparent, although I did notice RGB shows colors better than S-Video no matter what display, converter or console I use. S-Video always seems to have less evident differences in color saturation between different colors, in my experience.

    I do think the main reason why people shun S-Video, though, is the fact no flat-panel display in recent years has S-Video as an available input. If you have a video converter, CRT or an older flat-panel display with S-Video, you're good to go (unless you own a Toshiba 26HL37 and other TVs like it, specifically, which are TERRIBLE for any analog video source despite accepting 240p due to the EXTREME amount of deinterlacing applied to any 240p, 480i and 1080i source; it's so severe, it looks like an emulator filter is being applied, and it is ugly as f***, let me tell you), but you will usually get better results out of Component with things like HD CRTs, where Component simply looks magnificent (these still apply deinterlacing on 240p sources, but on Sony sets, at least in the KV-xxHS420 series where xx indicates the screen size in inches, deinterlacing artifacts can be minimized and the TVs are able to process 30Hz flicker properly, though on some darker graphics, 30Hz flicker may appear as a solid translucent graphic).
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  12. #27
    Done with Sega-16 (sorta) Master of Shinobi
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    BTW if you spent $300-500 on a PVM you're doing it wrong.

  13. #28
    urusei yatsura Master of Shinobi lumclaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ApolloBoy View Post
    BTW if you spent $300-500 on a PVM you're doing it wrong.
    Some of us live in moonland. PVMs, Turbografx, 3DO, all legends the fleeting sight of which leave us awestruck.

  14. #29
    Social Justice Ninja Master of Shinobi IrishNinja's Avatar
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    you don't have to spend that kinda $ for RGB, though: get a good late model trinotron with component, buy a good adapter and you're golden. those TV's often go for next to nothing, so it's not that big an investment.

    Quote Originally Posted by CGQuarterly View Post
    In my opinion, assuming that you're using a high-quality TV, the improvement in picture quality between composite and s-video is more dramatic than the improvement between s-video and RGB.
    absolutely agreed here, s-vid does the heavy lifting of getting rid of the poor effects composite creates, especially systems known to have poor composite (genesis, NES, etc).


  15. #30
    There can be only one. WCPO Agent synbiosfan's Avatar
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    Until recently I used s-video for everything preWii. I'm messing around with xrgbs (3&mini) and agree about the s-video / rgb difference not as noticeable as composite.
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