Quantcast

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 42

Thread: Why did Saturn have copy protection but DC didn't?

  1. #1
    Death Adder's minion
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    16
    Rep Power
    0

    Dc Why did Saturn have copy protection but DC didn't?

    So the title explains it all. Hopefully, this is the right place to ask this but I couldn't think of a better place.

    Since the Saturn came out before the Dreamcast, and the chances of people downloading whole 700MB cd images and burning them was a much smaller risk in 1995, why years later on the Dreamcast did Sega not include at least the same if not better copy protection. Seems like (other than the swap trick but the PS1 and PS2 even had that problem) the Saturns copy protection was pretty much bulletproof. Then later the Dreamcast downgraded to having mostly no piracy protection... it doesn't seem to make much sense considering people would not have much problem burning and downloading CD-r in the year 2000. Just Segas poor judgement?

  2. #2
    Outrunner Chibisteven's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    540
    Rep Power
    19

    Default

    The only short coming in the Dreamcast's copy protection was MilCD support, if it weren't for that it would of been a lot harder to do anything with piracy on the Dreamcast. Piracy is too much of a double edged sword on the Dreamcast giving the proprietary format and the size of some games. Some other vulnerable would've eventually been found.

    Doesn't even matter? The Saturn wasn't popular enough to get it's ass cracked wide open through some kind of vulnerable. If somebody wants in bad enough they'll find a way in.

    These systems are not bullet proof and quite far from it. Copy protection as age wears on becomes a hinderance to other things such as protecting your favorite game from physical and permanent damage. In fact it does little to stop piracy in the end as it becomes a game of cat and mouse.

  3. #3
    Master of Shinobi
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    2,213
    Rep Power
    43

    Default

    Saturn games can be easily copied from the disc versus Dreamcast which has the slightly different GD-ROM format. I've never had problems copying my Saturn CDs to ISO or BIN/CUE. They're standard CDs for the most part. The only thing that keeps burned CDs from running without modification is the signature part of the disc that's printed in a factory setting and not on your standard CD-R. GD-ROMs require to be read from an actual Dreamcast and some other rare retail disc drive that supported them.

    What pisses me off is why it has taken so damn long to get any decent Saturn emulation going. The fact that it has a complex architecture isn't enough. There are probably more good games for it than Dreamcast. I've had problems with SSF, but that's mainly because of outdated hardware (lack of pixel shader 3.0 support) and also a dual-core CPU (the programmer suggests quad-core). It's also only for Windows and the programmer told me via Twitter that he had no plans to port it to other operating systems. I don't have a Windows OS installed on my other computers (I use mainly Ubuntu on those). I have Windows Vista 32-bit on this desktop which is outdated and has the shortcomings I mentioned earlier. Mednafen is the only other option and it seems to be coming along nicely, but again I can't run it on my current OSes or older computers. It still has some compatibility issues, too.

    Yabause has a nice GUI, but that's about it. Totally worthless. You'd probably get more out of GiriGiri *shudder*.

  4. #4
    Synth music girl Hedgehog-in-TrainingNameless One Speedy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    68
    Rep Power
    8

    Default

    I think the Dreamcast was supposed to have copy protection but the MilCD support screwed that over.

  5. #5
    Raging in the Streets Blades's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    3,644
    Rep Power
    97

    Default

    Unlike the Saturn, the DC also used proprietary media which they probably assumed would be enough.

  6. #6
    Raging in the Streets Sik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    4,166
    Rep Power
    77

    Default

    As mentioned, the problem wasn't GDs (which may have been dumpable by modifying a CD drive but were still literally impossible to duplicate without involving a factory), the problem was MilCD.

    And for what's worth, MilCD did have copy protection... it's just that it was a pathetic one that didn't take very long to crack x_x; So the Dreamcast could be made to run CDs easily. Note that since CDs had lower capacity this meant games often had to be modified heavily to work (so you had to deal with lower texture resolution and such), so in theory one could have made a game unpirateable by simply making it unfeasible to reduce its disc usage.

    Either way, late Japanese Dreamcasts removed MilCD support, chances are if the Dreamcast had lasted longer this change would have spread to all the regions.

  7. #7
    Master of Shinobi
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    2,213
    Rep Power
    43

    Default

    Why is it that Dreamcast games generally fetch higher prices than Xbox or PSP games, despite all of them being easy to pirate? Is it really because of the fact that GD-ROMs are usually unaltered or the games considered more unique, or both? Thing is, neither of them have that many exclusives that haven't been ported to other consoles by now. I always blamed Xbox's lack of demand on the fact that the games were generic and often had PC counterparts that were superior. PSP games sometimes go for higher prices but not a lot. I'd say it was because the UMD format is such a joke. But I do like PSP's library.

  8. #8
    Synth music girl Hedgehog-in-TrainingNameless One Speedy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    68
    Rep Power
    8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeckidy View Post
    Why is it that Dreamcast games generally fetch higher prices than Xbox or PSP games, despite all of them being easy to pirate? Is it really because of the fact that GD-ROMs are usually unaltered or the games considered more unique, or both?
    I don't think easiness to pirate really factors into game prices at this point because collectors want the authentic game.

  9. #9
    Framemeister Expert Hedgehog-in-TrainingOutrunner Tower of Power's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    667
    Rep Power
    24

    Default

    I remember reading at the time that the Dreamcast actually had excellent copy protection. Don't know if that's true, but the MIL-CD exploit let them completely sidestep that (of course, as others have mentioned, there are some costs to it).

  10. #10
    Death Adder's minion
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    16
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    What the heck is a GD-rom even? It seems like it's a jerry riggd cd-rom made to hold 1GB instead of 700MB.... since the dremcast laser was based on a CD laser, and the GD-rom burner seems to be heavily based on cd. Is there even much difference? Even the first section of the GD-rom is in normal cd format.

  11. #11
    ToeJam is a wiener Hero of Algol Guntz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Age
    29
    Posts
    8,522
    Rep Power
    84

    Default

    GD-ROM is a proprietary Sega-developed optical disc format. Most people think Sega created it because DVD was too expensive to license. Although GD-ROM is derived from CD and contains a small section of CD data, it's not really the same thing.

    In theory, GD-ROM was nearly impossible to pirate, because the discs were proprietary and Sega did not sell GD-R discs. The problem is Sega completely overlooked the CD compatibility of the Dreamcast system, leaving an easy exploit for pirates to find.

  12. #12
    Outrunner
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    729
    Rep Power
    57

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Guntz View Post
    GD-ROM is a proprietary Sega-developed optical disc format. Most people think Sega created it because DVD was too expensive to license. Although GD-ROM is derived from CD and contains a small section of CD data, it's not really the same thing.

    In theory, GD-ROM was nearly impossible to pirate, because the discs were proprietary and Sega did not sell GD-R discs. The problem is Sega completely overlooked the CD compatibility of the Dreamcast system, leaving an easy exploit for pirates to find.

    GD-ROM was developed by Yamaha, not Sega. The main difference between GD-Roms and regular CD is that the pits on the disc are more densely packed on a GD-ROM vs a regular CD, other than that they use the same basic technology. The discs feature 3 separate regions, an audio CD area which normally feature an audio track with a warning that the disc should not be played on a normal CD Player as it potentially could damage it. The second area of the disc is a data track, readable on PCs. The 3rd track is the high density area which is normally 112 mins long or 1.2GBs in size.

    http://www.cdmediaworld.com/hardware...d_gd-rom.shtml

  13. #13
    ding-doaw Raging in the Streets tomaitheous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Sonoran Desert
    Age
    45
    Posts
    3,981
    Rep Power
    78

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ozfer View Post
    What the heck is a GD-rom even? It seems like it's a jerry riggd cd-rom made to hold 1GB instead of 700MB.... since the dremcast laser was based on a CD laser, and the GD-rom burner seems to be heavily based on cd. Is there even much difference? Even the first section of the GD-rom is in normal cd format.
    Your lack of knowledge on all these matters is concerning.

  14. #14
    Raging in the Streets Sik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    4,166
    Rep Power
    77

    Default

    But isn't that why this thread exists in the first place? =P
    Quote Originally Posted by Ozfer View Post
    What the heck is a GD-rom even? It seems like it's a jerry riggd cd-rom made to hold 1GB instead of 700MB.... since the dremcast laser was based on a CD laser, and the GD-rom burner seems to be heavily based on cd. Is there even much difference? Even the first section of the GD-rom is in normal cd format.
    Note that a GD has the tracks much closer than a CD, so you can't simply modify a CD burner to do the job, you need matching discs to go along with it. Also I think the format of the GD track is different from the format of the CD track, so there's that to account for too.

    In hindsight now kind of surprised they didn't exploit the fact a GD contains a CD track (i.e. keep the audio tracks in the CD portion, the interactive part in the GD portion), would have made the need for MilCD pointless as long as the Dreamcast could cope with GDs that have different sizes for the CD portion.

  15. #15
    Raging in the Streets Blades's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    3,644
    Rep Power
    97

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ozfer View Post
    What the heck is a GD-rom even? It seems like it's a jerry riggd cd-rom made to hold 1GB instead of 700MB.... since the dremcast laser was based on a CD laser, and the GD-rom burner seems to be heavily based on cd. Is there even much difference? Even the first section of the GD-rom is in normal cd format.
    Shame this man!

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •