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Thread: Street Fighter II Remaster Project

  1. #241
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingSports Talker
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    Anyone spending their time creating hacks for the community are much appreciated, nitpicking is something I look down on unless someone is willing to give a creative critique and realize it is not their project but the person doing the work.

  2. #242
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-Training Scandy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by avlon View Post
    I find the changes to be pretty cool. It gives this version its own identity. It will never be "Arcade perfect" anyway, so why not have a little fun with it? Thanks for your hard work Gabriel.
    I totally agree and I believe that Pyron's work is undoubtedly exceptional, both technically and in the way it conveys an identity that is simultaneously faithful to the SF brand and his previous works... a unique "Capcom/Brazilian style" that I personally love!

    Perhaps only the stage of Blanka would have required some further adjustments, while I find that the font of the Remaster version is stylish and much more readable than the original, and despite being different from the arcade version it's still in perfect Capcom style.

    I also agree with Lord Hiryu about the fact that there is no exclusivity of doing hacks, if nobody steals someone else's job.

    Thanks again Pyron for all the work and dedication!
    Peace!

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Tiger View Post
    What I'd like to know is if it's possible or practical for the SNES to run the existing SFII SNES ports with their existing soundtracks and full length, normal speed, unedited sfx and voice samples?
    With that audio driver (and the whole game engine to be honest) I really doubt.

    The way it's implement, the SFII and SFIIT have to trash music data in the audio RAM and reuse that space to load "You win!" and "Perfect" sound clips to the audio RAM at the end of each round.
    That's why it couldn't have continuous music between rounds in SSFII like in the arcade and MD versions. I also think they got rid of the "Round 1" and "Fight!" samples due to audio RAM/work RAM constraints.

    Now, if you really want to revamp it to the point of not having to shorten voice clips and change the playback sequences when compared to the arcade; then there's a lot more work to be done.
    For what I've checked with debuggers, MK3 is a good reference in terms of how much more you could push it and what kind of improvements you would need:
    - First thing to keep in mind is that whatever sample you're willing to play it has to be in its audio RAM. And whatever sample you're willing to load into its audio RAM you need to have previously loaded it to the work RAM (people say that it's possible to stream from ROM but in practical in-game conditions for a fighting game I don't think it's really feasible).
    - So, if you want to use bigger/more samples, you'll need to increase the the amount of data you transfer to the audio RAM during the fights (since the audio RAM has a hard limit in terms of storage capacity) and that requires clever use of the slow SPC IO ports and will also require you to have more parts of the work RAM occupied with audio data for later use.

    My understanding is that it's difficult to increase sample quality and improve the playback of those samples without also rewriting parts of the game engine related to animation (I believe this one of the issues with the NBA Jam games on the SNES and why they don't have in-game music: all the commentator voice samples are statically load into the audio RAM before the match and only sfx are load from the work RAM during the game. I suppose the amount of work RAM they could use for audio purposes in that game was limited to the point they were pushed to this far from ideal solution; consequence is that a lot of the narration clips are missing in the SNES version 'cause it could only have what they could fit into its audio RAM).
    At the end of the day, you'll need more work RAM being used for audio purposes which will push you to have a more efficient use of the work RAM for graphical data to be able to open up that space, which will then require tighter code graphical data manipulation, etc.

    And, even so, some limitations would still apply. Could it have instantaneous in-game switch of music track as needed to play the critical themes (as the MD prototype and the arcade do)? No, I don't think so. Not without significantly reducing the footprint of both tracks.
    With all the sorcery that MK3 pulls off, it still fails to change the stage theme when you uppercut your way to a new stage in the middle of the round. It's only in the next round that the proper track is loaded; unlike in the arcade and MD versions.

    And, if by any means you managed to accommodate deteriorated version of the regular and critical themes into the audio RAM during the fight, then you still wouldn't be able to have another round without pausing/trashing the music data in between.

    Keep in mind that the more data you're trying to load into the audio RAM, the less concurrency you'll have in the playback in real conditions.
    Examples: SSFII supports dual playback of attack announcements such as "hadouken!" but if you have a perfect win in Chun-Li's stage the chickens' audio will be broken while loading the "Perfect!" sample.
    Similarly, most of the in-game grunts of MK3 can be hear over each other but the audio system can't handle playing Shao Kahn's laugh and the winning (or any other) message at the same time (unlike in arcade and MD); the laugh sample is always missing in the finishing moments of the stage.
    If you want to see the SNES and its audio system being pushed beyond its capabilities just check WWF Wrestlemania: The Arcade Game. It's pretty much nightmare scenarios all around: more AI than it can handle, more sprites than it can handle, far more and longer voice clips than it can handle.



    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Tiger View Post
    If so, what kind of quality would they be be before filtering/reverb? Would they be better or worse than the Mega Drive samples?
    That's a good question but one would probably need to deep dive in both ports to have a clear picture with exact numbers for everything you asked.
    I don't have the time neither the knowledge to come up with such number.

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Hiryu View Post
    I also appreciate the empathy shown by Barone for his nice words towards me. Thanks.
    You're welcome and I'm glad you got the message.
    I would suggest you building a more credible accounting of the facts; that could help you to play the victim card more effectively in your future endeavors.

    Regarding when you asked Pyron's help, he did help you and listed the steps you needed to take in order to do what you wanted. But being lazy as you are, you wanted him to do it for you. Which is kinda funny actually.
    I had some really good laughs while reading your message exchanges with him and seeing how out of touch with reality you are. Thanks for that.
    By the way, another funny bit: Pyron helped you to activate your account here and later on he had to block you given how pedantic and plagiaristic you got.

    Please, stop stealing ideas from others without giving proper credit.
    The way you did it was specially nasty as at some point you'd check his posts here and then follow up with a half-assed hack but full ROM release (which is actually illegal) one or two days after just to claim authority of those changes.
    Having seeing that, no amount of sugar-coating in your writing will make you any less of a weasel to me.

  5. #245
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-Training Lord Hiryu's Avatar
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    Hola a todo el mundo.
    Tenía pensado escribir este texto en inglés, pero dado que no existe norma que lo prohíba en el foro, prefiero expresarme en mi lengua materna. Así que si alguien está interesado en saber lo que pone, por favor, usad el traductor de google, pero es que no quiero un "lost in tranlation".
    Barone, no tengo el placer de conocerte, así que te pediría, que no hagas comentarios hacia mi persona infundados, a parte de la faltas de respeto.

    **** Todo lo que iba a decir es inútil....así que paso de ensuciar más el hilo de Pyron*****
    **** No obstante, recuerdo que solo hice aparición en el hilo por alusiones al comentario de Barone, me fastidia tener que ensuciar el hilo de Pyron por los comentarios ofensivos por parte de terceras personas.*****

    Un saludo.

    EDIT: There's a comparisson screenshots.....mine-arcade-pyron
    Please, check both versions....and PLEASE, find any tile or graphic that you think I'm stolen....please. Let me know.SF2Comparativa.jpg
    Here the link for the full size image:
    http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/a75...nakzkkh8zg.jpg

    And here, a gift for all people.....my steps during the creation of any stage (Cammy for example) using photoshop, Gssavestate, HxD, tilemolester, hivepal and gens_r57.PasosProcesoCammy.jpg
    http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/6fd...szacrneqzg.jpg
    Last edited by Lord Hiryu; 07-24-2020 at 04:54 PM.

  6. #246
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingRoad Rasher
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    I didn't follow this drama some years back, so can someone explain to me what exactly was stolen? I mean, you can't "steal" the general idea of color hacks/upgrades, because that's been around since at least 2000 in the rom hacking community. What was specifically stolen? Specific implementations were copied or something???

  7. #247
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingOutrunner Stifu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scandy View Post
    Perhaps only the stage of Blanka would have required some further adjustments
    The only thing that bothers me with that stage is the left cottage's roof. Its right edge is very flat now.

  8. #248
    Master of Shinobi
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    Mods PLEASE move this drama to Paprium's thread where it belongs.

    Also is it me or most of the active posters are Brazillian or Spaniard fellows?
    Lists of MD games: officially licensed (~925) @ cart sizes @ Top 5 @ Top 250 @ Sonic hacks @ best title screens @ Arcade ports (150) @ best European games

  9. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scandy View Post
    Perhaps only the stage of Blanka would have required some further adjustments
    Quote Originally Posted by Stifu View Post
    The only thing that bothers me with that stage is the left cottage's roof. Its right edge is very flat now.
    I'm pretty sure a second or third revision could be made.
    There are other details that I think could be improved but at some point you also need to stop trying to improve and release something.

    Pyron felt it was the time to let it go (and probably move to another game), but it doesn't mean nothing can be done over it.
    There's a good base there that could be reused by other hackers too. A lot of the tiles were reconverted, tiles maps rearranged many times, etc.
    Certainly a better starting point in terms of graphical details than the original release.

  10. #250
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingRoad Rasher
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    Quote Originally Posted by chilled View Post
    Mods PLEASE move this drama to Paprium's thread where it belongs.

    Also is it me or most of the active posters are Brazillian or Spaniard fellows?
    What does that have to do with anything???

  11. #251
    The Cat in the Hat Shining Hero NeoVamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chilled View Post
    Also is it me or most of the active posters are Brazillian or Spaniard fellows?
    It is actually a well known fact that people of the West Iberian heritage reaaaaaaaally love their fighting games.

  12. #252
    Master of Shinobi Pyron's Avatar
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    I'm really sad that this has to be discussed here...

    First of all, I really don't like when I see that some people come up with superficial comparisons right after the hack release without giving it a fair chance despite how much effort was put into it; it sucks to read comments such as "I hate this", "I hate that" without people even having something else to suggest or probably without even playing it to being with.
    I understand that such comparisons and negativity are inevitable nowadays but I see this as a form of disrespect for the work done and it bothers me; of course most people don't care about this but I just want to make it clear.

    I have always helped everyone who is in need of help, not only because that is how a community should be but also always counted on the help of others.
    This includes Lord Hiryu, I have always encouraged him in his projects, I have always said directly to him that his talent and effort are admirable, and even showed him when a friend or someone I knew spoke about his work, always sending links and always made constructive comments about it.

    He asked me several questions and I always answered him, sometimes maybe not in the way he wanted, but as I could at the time
    For a long time I was always busy with this and other projects, a full time job, my personal life, etc. I don't have infinite time to dedicate to hacking and I thing this is the same for most people.

    As he was mentioned and appeared here, it is good to clarify a few things:

    - First thing to say is that no, I don't feel like I'm the only person who can mess with Street Fighter II (or any other game) and actually nobody here suggested that except for him.
    My first color hack is from 2013/2014 since then I had never gone back to the project. I only ventured into SSF2 at the direct request of Maxfarras, I said here several times and for him that I didn't feel any desire to mess with that game. In 2016 I started doing SF2 again because it is a game that I love and I felt I could do a lot more about it because of the experience that I acquired over time and it would be my farewell letter to the scene.

    At that time Lord Hiryu had already released several versions of his Hack and was starting to work on SSF2, including the Maxfarras work he was using without asking for authorization. I went to him and asked him to give Maxfarras credit because he was a nice guy and would probably allow the use but it was not cool to use without doing this.
    And Lord Hiryu was already using some Max assets and without authorization, this I know because I asked the author before talking to him.

    - Second, after showing my progress here and asking for feedback as I always did, Lord Hiryu went back to his project and started to "get inspired" by what I did, all the changes I made in a magical way appeared in his hacks a week later in the same places.
    He says he follows Arcade, but for some reason, the arcade that was released in 91 did not inspire him enough and he had to wait for me to do something to know that it was in the arcade. There must be some limitation in his eyes, maybe a doctor would be able to explain this to me.
    I always tried to look at his "inspirations" in a friendly way, but when I showed the colors of the SSF2T here and again in the same week it was available in his version, and his Spanish friends came to accuse me of copying I politely asked him not to do it (which is shown in the image below).



    Fortunately he understood that message and I thank him for it.
    But for other things this continued to happen, sadly.

    We have a mutual friend who is Instagram's Retroescape, who was helping to promote the "Final" version of SFII by our friend Lord Hiryu since, again, he said he was going to finalize his version and move to SSF2.
    So to not take this kind of negative attention to me (like having his friends accusing me of copying ideas which were actually mine), I stopped showing my project updates until he had released his final version.
    I wanted him to have all the attention and I wanted my updates to not be accused of plagiarism again (this is something that really bothered me and it's kind of a let down when you're trying to keep working on a project like this), so I waited and I communicated this to him.


    - Third he seems to be butthurt towards me because he has already said here and in several other places that I didn’t help him with the Zangief stage, and the tone is always as if I had some kind of obligation to help him with this.
    Well here’s the answer that I I gave him at the time:



    - About screenshots comparison, I really think that Lord Hiryu does a good job and his project aims much more the arcade than mine, but the timeline must be showed to understand how it progressed over time.
    He didn't copy my tiles (again, nobody claimed that except for him), but the “inspirations” he got and the ideas he borrowed without asking or crediting must be shown and some points must be made.
    You'll get some blurry screen on the video that is out today showing more of the progress and others inspirations.


    This is going to be my only post about this, draw your own conclusions.

    Visit my youtube channel Pyron's Lair
    Take here all my hacks made with love for all of us here
    Want to help me? Here is my Patreon!

  13. #253
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    He uses the "my hack is closer to the arcade" excuse, but he clearly redrawn/copied based on Pyron and not in the arcade:
    - Floor dithering patterns (Ex: Zangief stage)
    - Clouds and sky gradients (see Blanka's stage, for an example)
    - Custom redrawn/fixed objects (see Honda's bathtub changes)
    - Color palette changes (see Ryu's stage); if Pyron changes something to be brighter, he follows. If he adds more lighting from the sky, he copies that in his next revision and so on.

    I get that you love Pyron's work, Lord Hiryu, but give credit and tell your Spanish friends that you're the one copying stuff from others and not the other way round.

    Also, you challenged people to find copy/pasted tiles in your work.
    Well, looks like maxxfarras' tiles want to have a word with you, pal.

    I see "plagiarist" written all over you.

  14. #254
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-Training Lord Hiryu's Avatar
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    Hello everybody.
    For allusions I am going to respond, and thanks to Pyron for the clarifications.
    I know this is more than boring, but I will not allow myself to be a plagiarist or a thief.
    As Gabriel explained, we have both been with our respective hacks since 2016.
    My first hack was officially published in romhacking on November 14, 2016, and it was just a color palette hack and some tile edition.
    Despite that, I was not happy, and I learned to work with hexadecimal, and to replace tiles, and add new ones, as well as being able to put them where I saw fit.
    You can see my first video with the new version (my second hack) on my youtube channel, and dated July 12, 2017.



    I was still working on my progress, and like Pyron, I also have a family and a job, so I could only dedicate my spare time.
    However, he did not stop moving forward with the hexadecimal issue.
    As of October 05, 2017, Pyron announces its Remastered edition in the forum.
    On May 6, 2018, I published on my channel a new video, where all the details of Ryu's sky can be seen, with a gradient of 7 shades, Guile's stage with its sky, and objects such as the staircase behind the jet and a host of other details.



    At this time, I could not write in the forum, but thanks to the help of Pyron, I was given access to it to be able to post. To this day, counting this message, there will be 3 my contributions.


    In all this time, apart from the SF2CE, I put myself with the SSF2, and yes, it is true that at first I used the 3 Maxfarras scenarios, just initially doing a color adjustment.
    However, at this point, and now I will show images, the 3 scenarios have been redrawn from scratch, always using arcade and snes assets. (image)

    It bothers me, because as Gabriel says, we follow each other on Instagram and we have acquaintances in common, and I thought we had a good relationship. He doing his version and I mine.
    I repeat, that my purpose is to make the version more faithful to the arcade ... and if the sling stage in the arcade has a wooden table, I put it on, as I have put details that in the remastered and pyron There are not, like the word Capcom on the bathroom door, the largest drains, the wall tiles with their piece of green tile, or in Escanrio e Blanka the correct roof of the house, and so with all the scenarios.
    I am sorry if someone has branded you as plagiarism, Gabriel, but, for your knowledge, and for you too, Barone, I have no "friends" who engage in trolling or fucking with their comments, and much less, I will be responsible for acts from third parties that I don't even know.
    I own only my words.
    I'm going to leave some screenshots, comparing the version of Pyron, next to mine, as well as the comparisons of the MaxFarras scenarios, and as the version that I have almost ready of the World Warrior.
    And so that everyone knows, to this day, I still have not managed to fix the scroll of the Zangief scenario, and yes, I have asked a guy who is a programmer for help, to see if he can shed light on how I should do it.
    I am sorry if things between Grabriel and me went wrong, since I consider that he is a person who dedicates passion and time to what he likes the most.


    Comparisson with Pyron's Remastered work....(top mine, down Pyron's)(There's a lot of graphical differences between 2 versions)








    Comparisson with MaxFarras work....(top mine, down Maxfarras)







    Comparisson with Original SSF2 work....(top mine, down Capcom)





    Some screenshots of my SF2 World Warrior Version



    Anyone who knows about hacking, hand-code it in hex, and working with tilemolester, hivepal, gens, and photoshop will know the work behind it, and the years spent.
    And no Barone, I do not seek fame or anything similar, I do it because I like it, as simple as that, but I will not let anyone, treat me as a thief, plagiarist or whatever you want.
    I repeat, I rely on the arcade, not on anyone's version.
    As a note, to say that the Cammy scenario, I remade it entire 2 times, because my PC broke and I didn't have a backup.

    A greeting.

  15. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Icopyu View Post
    And no Barone, I do not seek fame or anything similar, I do it because I like it, as simple as that, but I will not let anyone, treat me as a thief, plagiarist or whatever you want.
    I'll always call a spade a spade.
    The timing of your releases, the way you do it and the content of them tells us what you really want: attention, brag rights, etc.

    Every time Pyron releases something related to this hack you try to add his improvements to your hack as quick as possible and release a new version right after. This time it was no different.
    Again, it's all cool if you're pursuing the ultimate hack; we all want to play something like that. But there are ways of borrowing from others without bothering them. One way would be to drop this horseshit that you claim to only rely on the arcade and come clear about some of the edits you made, especially given the timeline of events.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Icopyu View Post
    I repeat, I rely on the arcade, not on anyone's version.
    So your latest version of Blanka's stage where you reworked and moved the cloud to look like the one in Pyron's hack is due to the arcade version?
    The missing tile in Guile's stage that Pyron fixed, published about and that you added later on to yours was actually based on the arcade version which never changed, right?
    The changes you made to your own Ryu's palette bringing it closer to Pyron's last version is also due to the arcade version, which, again, has been the same for almost 30 years, eh?
    The woman's coat in Ken's stage now changed color 'cause? Maybe because Pyron just had a recent release? No, no, you decided to change it out of nowhere, coincidentally just right after.
    The change to E. Honda's bathtub is also something that flourished in your mind right after Pyron had released it; what a fucking coincidence!
    ...

    Last edited by Barone; 07-26-2020 at 12:36 PM.

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