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Thread: Focus shift from offline to online, lootboxes, etc.

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    Here's some context;

    - ME3mp loot system was fine, but by one of the later MEAmp patches the loot system went out control (loot pool diluted with 3-4 weapon varients of each weapon) that even those only playing the game for loot lost interest due to how overwhelming and never ending the loot bloat became. Most, not some, are so hooked to just loot that they'll look for mindless camping exploits just to mindlessly grind for in game loot cash with minimum effort instead of playing for any enjoyment. Apparently the Gambling Commission is now even looking into loot boxes.

    - open world games surge need to slow down as they're very hard to pull off right. Last open world games I've played were all bad. But these games can keep players playing, and there's profit in this, ie; many people still play Fallout 4 & Skyrim according to Steam, more so then online Dark Souls III, so no surprise Bethesda are finally cashing in these replayable games too.


    Conclusion, it's more lucrative for big publishers to invest on games that keep players playing for micro-transactions.

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    Eurogamer did an article on that podcast interview in the opening post for those that want a quick summary on the info Manveer Heir released on EA and today's AAA gaming development.

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    Yeah a (presumably rich) fool and their money are soon parted...


    Quote Originally Posted by Thief View Post
    Eurogamer did an article on that podcast interview in the opening post for those that want a quick summary on the info Manveer Heir released on EA and today's AAA gaming development.


    One of the comments on that article made me LOL.

    I *cannot* fathom anyone spending $15,000 on microtransactions. I mean wow...was ME3 multiplayer THAT engaging? I personally thought it was crap.


    As for what that ex-producer had to say .. sorry couldn't give a f*ck. His last game was shite and his next game will likely be shite too.



    Always online games with lootboxes and micropayments suck. worst development in video games in probably 30 years.
    Last edited by stu; 10-24-2017 at 11:24 PM. Reason: corrected idiom

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    Raging in the Streets EclecticGroove's Avatar
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    It's all born of the "freemium" mobile games.

    They found they can give the games away if they want and then rake in an absurd amount of cash in a short period of time. After people burn out or get sick of it, the company doesn't really care. It's made an absurd ROI, and often will still produce some income even after most have left. Enough to give it token support to just keep things running anyways.

    This system is infecting every kind of game out there. MMO's, console games, it doesn't matter.
    It triggers the same spot for people as gambling does and some will drop absurd amounts of money.

    I personally know a guy that dropped 30k USD on a single event in an MMO he enjoyed. That's not 30k on the game. That's 30k on one single event. He's spend 5-15k on other separate occasions. I have no idea how much he's spent in total, and he probably doesn't even know himself. But it's absolutely more than 100k.

    And the really sad part was his MMO addiction was cheaper than when he just went to casino's to gamble.

    Freemium is a cancer, but it is one that isn't going anywhere. Either the people making the game care enough to make it sensible (or are forced to by outrage), or they are looking to squeeze their players for as much money in the least amount of time as possible.

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    Framemeister Expert Hedgehog-in-TrainingOutrunner Tower of Power's Avatar
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    I remember back when microtransactions and pay for cosmetic upgrades were first introduced, and they were relentlessly mocked in the serious gamer communities. No one would be caught dead admitting to spending money on any of that. Wonder what changed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tower of Power View Post
    I remember back when microtransactions and pay for cosmetic upgrades were first introduced, and they were relentlessly mocked in the serious gamer communities. No one would be caught dead admitting to spending money on any of that. Wonder what changed.
    They didn't start in the serious gamer communities, but the casual ones.

    But the model was adopted to more serious games when it became apparent that people would spend money to get ahead, not just look different.

    Loot crates and such, at their best, have just stuff in them that is available in game. So it's a shortcut to access stuff for those who may not want to spend a long time playing to unlock. Or if the in game requirement is challenging, etc.

    The worst cases are pay to win items, things available nowhere but a cash shop and that impact in game play. Forcing those who are competitive to shell out money if they want to keep up with the competition or else just quit.

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    Super Robot Raging in the Streets Obviously's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tower of Power View Post
    I remember back when microtransactions and pay for cosmetic upgrades were first introduced, and they were relentlessly mocked in the serious gamer communities. No one would be caught dead admitting to spending money on any of that. Wonder what changed.
    As ElectricGroove said, mobile games normalized a lot of these concepts and it's not surprising that as a result they've creeped into AAA games that are made for general audiences. They're probably not going to be able to put this genie back into the bottle because it works, they make way more money than if they just sell people a game or even traditional DLC.

    I wouldn't even care about it if it didn't also encourage them to make games more grindy to tempt people to buy loot boxes as well as in game advertising being about as immersion shattering as you can get.

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    Genie's out of the bottle is right.

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    Raging in the Streets Sik's Avatar
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    Be glad that kompu gacha was made illegal in Japan (think paid lootboxes taken to their logical extreme, where you need to loot for a set of smaller items so only then you get to loot the big one).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sik View Post
    Be glad that kompu gacha was made illegal in Japan (think paid lootboxes taken to their logical extreme, where you need to loot for a set of smaller items so only then you get to loot the big one).
    And I imagine this kind of thing is going to just get worse until something big happens to force a legal restriction on it in other places as well.

    Companies pull some serious unscrupulous shit with cash shops, and it really hits those with gambling and self control issues hard.

    For a game in the full swing of cash shops and active playerbases, a hundred to a few hundred USD a month is the norm for a lot of higher end players. And that's by no means the top end of what some people pay.

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    China also requires drop rates in lootboxes to be disclosed (which makes it blatant how close to gambling things are). Probably also had the side effect to make drop rates more lenient.

    The biggest issue here is that gambling is not legally considered gambling unless you can directly get back money from it. That's kind of a big issue since 1) you can still make back money through unofficial means (turning it into literal gambling for money) and 2) even ignoring that, you're still paying in the hopes you may or may not get what you want, which is what gambling is all about. I guess the only reason gambling laws exclude the latter is that some activities for kids (like card packs) would run afoul of them... and honestly, maybe we should start asking if they should.

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    Framemeister Expert Hedgehog-in-TrainingOutrunner Tower of Power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sik View Post
    China also requires drop rates in lootboxes to be disclosed (which makes it blatant how close to gambling things are). Probably also had the side effect to make drop rates more lenient.

    The biggest issue here is that gambling is not legally considered gambling unless you can directly get back money from it. That's kind of a big issue since 1) you can still make back money through unofficial means (turning it into literal gambling for money) and 2) even ignoring that, you're still paying in the hopes you may or may not get what you want, which is what gambling is all about. I guess the only reason gambling laws exclude the latter is that some activities for kids (like card packs) would run afoul of them... and honestly, maybe we should start asking if they should.
    Well, it would kill a huge swath of the collectibles market, basically any sort of blind bag or capsule toy wouldn't be allowed any more, as you could show that certain toys fetch more money on the secondary market.

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    All of this is why I prefer the 1993 method of free additional content. Remember that DLC through the years image? 1993 would show “FREE MODS”, with a bunch of different paintings. And then “SOURCE PORTS” where we have stuff like sculptures and performing arts. That’s what Doom is like. Samsara, Aeons of Death, Brutal Doom, Reelism, Project Brutality...
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