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Thread: Saturn > SNES

  1. #466
    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post
    I'd say he's gamefaqs material but then I remembered he just arrived here after being banned from there. So we know what to expect.
    I've never been a member of GameFAQs, so really haven't the 1st clue what you are on about there, but never mind
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melf View Post
    Unnecessary. Please don't do it again.
    My bad.

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    Master of Shinobi Mega Drive Bowlsey's Avatar
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    C'mon guys! In all this cat fighting you haven't explained why EA's Strike trilogy sounds so shit on the SNES! Put the handbags down and give me an explanation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    Yeah in a Saturn Vs Snes thread, keep the Gold coming. And like I said there was quite a few single disc Amiga games that had better music. I take it, the cop-out answer means happen to know it to be true, more so as you are meant to be an Amiga fan
    Ohhh so I'm an Amiga fan now? LOL I don't recall ever owning an Amiga, just that I played the games (it was my best mate's Amiga actually fyi). And you're a fine one to talk about off topic discussions, how about making dumb comparisons between the Saturn and PS2 in the DC vs PS2 thread. HUH?




    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    I'm from the UK too and liked the Amiga, but I wouldn't think its fair to compare a 16 bit home computer to a 8-bit console myself. Seems you weren't much of a SEGA fan then, so why you get so wound up over the Snes Vs the MD is a little beyond me. And as someone who doesn't like either the Saturn or the Snes, I do wonder what you are doing in the Saturn section and in a Snes VS Saturn thread for added irony. Other than trolling and throwing insults, it's hard to work out.

    Where have I stated I hated any of those systems? You really need to chill out and stop drinking the game corp kool-aid. I merely pointed out to you that you were wrong on the size of that game, now you're trying desperately to paint me with as a fanboy of something so that I can be compared to and torn down by MrSegaBlueBlood (currently an Amiga fanboy, might also be a Playstation fanboy, curiously not an Xbox fanboy even though I own a bunch of OG Xboxes and a couple of 360's ) Make up your mind. Oh and btw why don't you answer MegadriveBowlsey's question about how the audio on the SNES versions of the Strike trilogy suck compare to the versions on the "inferior" MD.

    (PS you can have the last word, I made my point a page an a half ago.)

  5. #470
    End of line.. Hero of Algol gamevet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stu View Post
    ERRR WRONG AGAIN!

    I figured you'd try to bullshit your way out so I went and downloaded the Amiga version of Flashback, it came on 4 disks.

    Each ADF disk image file is 880k (standard Amiga disk size), 4 x 880k according to my computer is 3.43MB total.

    Just like I said earlier.
    You also take into account that each floppy has repeated data, so the actual size of the game data might be quite a bit less.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



  6. #471
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    It's funny how childish you become, even to the point a rather bad comparison of Wing Commander on the Mega CD, which I gather is using the mighty Mega Drive sound chip for the most part (which you make out to be wonderful) comparing it a PC CD Rom version (with added expensive of not just a CD Rom drive but new Sound Card)or the remake version on a 800 quid 32 bit console or a PSX version of the game, that no one played . All because you don't like it that some like the Snes sound over the MD.
    So for that, you knock SEGAs 16-bit CD Hardware, bash SEGAs 32bit CD system and then add in personal insults
    All this from one who likes to claim they are a SEGA fan , that's what one would call hilarious.
    If you would calm down a little bit and read my posts prior writing your attacks, you'd realize that I was praising the Sega CD version.

    By the way, the context of the conversation you ruined was: 5th gen represented a downgrade in terms of soundtrack compositions and sound design in general.
    Hint: Sega CD is not a 5th gen system.

    And since you're approaching your 8th anniversary as a member of Sega-16, please, try to learn how to use the multi-quote button. It would be a great gift to all of us.




    Now let me go back to a better post:
    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Tiger View Post
    If you measure the duration of the voice samples in SFII Turbo which didn't have major content cut out of them (filled with dead space instead), they are literally less than half the length of the samples in the arcade, Genesis and PC Engine versions. Clips like screams are 90% shorter. The end result is so unnatural that it is off-putting if you aren't "blindly" telling yourself that SNES "is just better".
    There's also the "fast forwarding" of the music tracks:





    And then this:


    Dreadful.

  7. #472
    The Future is Yesterday Hedgehog-in-TrainingRaging in the Streets Leynos's Avatar
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    As a person who lives in the US...Amiga not until the internet did I even hear of these and still barely know what it is outside some old computer. I liked all 3 samples posted above *shrug*

    I'm not going to argue preferences over 30-year-old sound chips but this is one of my favorites from SNES. Simply stunning.
    Last edited by Leynos; 02-28-2018 at 06:18 PM.

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  8. #473
    End of line.. Hero of Algol gamevet's Avatar
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    He didn't like the increased pace of the SNES version.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mega Drive Bowlsey View Post
    C'mon guys! In all this cat fighting you haven't explained why EA's Strike trilogy sounds so shit on the SNES! Put the handbags down and give me an explanation.
    The legendary Hubbard worked on the Genesis version. I think it's safe to say that Hubbard had nothing to do with the dreadful music of the SNES version. I prefer the graphics and sound effects of the SNES version though.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



  9. #474
    Hero of Algol TrekkiesUnite118's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ecco View Post
    Sorry, what is the point of these reduced songs? Not being sarcastic, I really don't get it lol.
    Simply shows that the PSG channels are actually being used for a lot of those songs. A lot of people think the PSG channels are only used for Master System mode and are unused for Genesis games. However a lot of games use them for additional background instruments, harmony, etc. However some people either don't hear them or assume they're FM channels. So those videos simply highlight which channels in the song are being done by PSG.

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    Most Amiga games didn't use the DD format.
    I can literally download the disk images off multiple sites and see that each one is exactly 880KB.

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    there's plenty of single disc Amiga games that featured better music than the MD counter parts like Speedball 2, Turrican, Lotus 2

    Oh Dear.
    Um...



    @1:54


    Oh dear indeed...
    Last edited by TrekkiesUnite118; 02-28-2018 at 08:25 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    He didn't like the increased pace of the SNES version.




    The legendary Hubbard worked on the Genesis version. I think it's safe to say that Hubbard had nothing to do with the dreadful music of the SNES version. I prefer the graphics and sound effects of the SNES version though.
    Same thing happened with Rock and Roll Racing. The legendary Tim Follin worked on the SNES version but not on the Genesis, unfortunately. Many times its not about the hardware, but the developers.

  11. #476
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    Quote Originally Posted by saturndual32 View Post
    Same thing happened with Rock and Roll Racing. The legendary Tim Follin worked on the SNES version but no on the Genesis, unfortunately. Many times its not about the hardware, but the developers.
    And the audio driver.
    Rock and Roll Racing uses Sound Images driver on the MD, which is one of if not THE worst driver ever made for the system.
    Pretty much every single game which uses it sucks audio-wise.

  12. #477
    End of line.. Hero of Algol gamevet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saturndual32 View Post
    Same thing happened with Rock and Roll Racing. The legendary Tim Follin worked on the SNES version but not on the Genesis, unfortunately. Many times its not about the hardware, but the developers.
    Yeah. My issue isn't necessarily with the sound hardware of the Genesis. My issue is that a lot of devs really struggle with it, so it is a hardware problem from the standpoint that it takes a lot more effort to get good sound out of it. Konami and Techno soft (ex konami) really know how to bring the best out of it, while even Sega struggled with it early on. Capcom had a hard time with it too.


    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Tiger View Post

    But that's taken out of real game context. How often do SNES games contain intact voice/sound effect samples in the first place? Many SNES games are also on Genesis or PC Engine, where they use little or no sound samples. Those games are using more space for sound in the SNES versions. Zero samples will always require more space than actual samples.
    You are more than welcome to prove that theory by finding 2 identical games on the SNES and Genesis and downloading the ROM. You can unzip the files and they will show up at the exact same size as the real cart. Street Fighter II Turbo is exactly 20Mb on the SNES, while SFII SCE shows up slightly higher than the advertised 24Mb; it's actually 24.5Mb. I was going to do that last night on my company laptop (I was out of town), but the anti-virus program blocked the download.

    It's pointless trying to convince people of what they're actually hearing in SNES games until they finally notice for themselves. SFII is a good example, where people pretend that the difference in voice samples is simply the "quality" of them and SNES is "good" and Genesis is "bad". If you measure the duration of the voice samples in SFII Turbo which didn't have major content cut out of them (filled with dead space instead), they are literally less than half the length of the samples in the arcade, Genesis and PC Engine versions. Clips like screams are 90% shorter. The end result is so unnatural that it is off-putting if you aren't "blindly" telling yourself that SNES "is just better". But when the hardware then shifts the pitch higher or lower, it leaps from uncanny valley into derpblivion. But game mags convinced everyone that the only difference between SNES and competing consoles is "scratchiness".

    The combination of gutting and fast forwarded/squished clips all adds up to such a fraction of duration length, that even when you factor in all of the instruments for music, SFII Turbo likely has a much smaller overall amount of actual sample duration than SFIICE.
    I've set the Genesis and the SNES side by side and played the sound clips. What you are saying is misleading. Capcom chose to use an echo effect with the death screams of the characters in Street Fighter II Turbo, while in SCE, it sounds like everyone is crapping their pants. The SCE version sounds worse. The other clips like "Perfect" and "Round" are exactly the same length.

    Screw the gaming mags, they should have brought up the broken timing of the music, and instruments dropping out on the Genesis version when any sound samples were played. The simple fact that you aren't even talking about it tells me what your agenda really is. It's not honesty, that's for sure.






    Last edited by gamevet; 02-28-2018 at 09:48 PM.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



  13. #478
    The Future is Yesterday Hedgehog-in-TrainingRaging in the Streets Leynos's Avatar
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    This was always impressive to me for a cart of the era.




    SNES lacked good bass but I do feel overall was more capable than Genesis but sometimes that bass just sounded better to the ear.

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  14. #479
    End of line.. Hero of Algol gamevet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post



    Jaki Crush's music vs Devil Crash MD's music is also a bad joke.
    I brought that up several pages ago. Honestly, it was just a bad choice of music, but the theme wasn't doing it any favors.






    Since you don't know what you're talking about, you try to make comparisons like these.
    Saturn's lack of compression support is much worse than MD's in comparison. 5th gen games are mostly sample-based in terms of sound design and the lack of compression support results in Saturn games having half of the sound quality and less channels used in order to reduce audio RAM usage.

    With MD vs SNES, audio RAM is a much stronger limitation on the SNES side.

    You picked a bad example.

    It's exactly what Capcom had to do with SFII SCE and SSFII on the Genesis. The music tracks are stripped to the bare minimum in those games, with very little tracks, and some of the music tracks would cut out during speech samples. Street Fighter Alpha 2 had to be stripped down on the SNES (even with all of the data being decompressed with a cart chip), because Nintendo capped out its carts at 32Mb, but that has nothing to do with audio RAM, as you say. Nintendo did release a couple of carts with an expanded memory controller (in Japan) to make larger carts for games like Star Ocean in Japan.
    Last edited by gamevet; 02-28-2018 at 10:19 PM.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



  15. #480
    Death Bringer Raging in the Streets Black_Tiger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    I've set the Genesis and the SNES side by side and played the sound clips. What you are saying is misleading. Capcom chose to use an echo effect with the death screams of the characters in Street Fighter II Turbo, while in SCE, it sounds like everyone is crapping their pants. The SCE version sounds worse. The other clips like "Perfect" and "Round" are exactly the same length.

    Screw the gaming mags, they should have brought up the broken timing of the music, and instruments dropping out on the Genesis version when any sound samples were played. The simple fact that you aren't even talking about it tells me what your agenda really is. It's not honesty, that's for sure.
    You say I have an agenda and am being misleading, but you admit to judging by your gut in real-time. If you can try to honestly listen, this should make it easy enough for you to perceive what they sound like:

    http://superpcenginegrafx.net/sfiice...deathmatch.avi


    Instead of pulling things out of my ass or simply posting photos of my possessions TA-style, what I said previously was based on my measuring the clips that I recorded from real hardware:

    http://superpcenginegrafx.net/misc/sfiisven.png


    "Round" is 0.827 seconds on Genesis and 0.4 seconds on SNES. "Perfect" must have been indecipherable at the typical double+ speed/half length, because it is 0.653 seconds on Genesis and 0.467 seconds on SNES. Go ahead and record and measure them yourself.


    You can ignore the obvious changes to all the rest of the SNES samples, but echoing the destruction sounds, laughs and screams wasn't an artistic breakthrough. As I said, the arcade, PC Engine and Genesis versions all feature proper audio clips. You ignored this and simply called out the quality of one of them. It doesn't change the fact that Capcom cut those sounds by 90% and just repeated them... while trimming and fast forwarding the rest.

    If you can get past the idea of SNES = clarity, go back and forth between arcade/PCE clips and SNES. The amount of clarity lost to filtering is huge and our minds are automatically making sense of them based on what we know they're supposed to represent.


    The imperfections of both the Genesis and SNES soundtracks and whether any instruments drop out is irrelevant to everything I discussed about samples using the same audio clips in every version but SNES and how the SNES clips were trimmed, sped up and distorted. Continuing to change the subject and ignoring specifics doesn't change what I demonstrated with measurable evidence, nor my "honesty".
    Quote Originally Posted by year2kill06
    everyone knows nintendo is far way cooler than sega just face it nintendo has more better games and originals

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