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Thread: The disappointment that is SOR3 !

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    SITE SUPERVILLAIN Outrunner Vector's Avatar
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    Default The disappointment that is SOR3 !

    The disappointment that is SOR3 !

    I loved SOR which made a mockery of BOTH FF1 games on SNES around the time and SOR2 is classic but SOR3 was a huge fall off from series and not even a great or even good game. I dare say Final Fight 2 or 3 on SNES was better. Because I can listen to that music on FF3, but SOR3 definitely sounded like that legendary composers (Yuzo Koshiro) method "automatic composing system" program he created, everything in SOR3 while it is music is not good. Less time and effort on that software could have been spent on actually making great music like rest of series. The game wasn't advertised much from what I remember and I can see why. Seems like a total rush job and cash in by Sega, regardless how long that music program took. The graphics look right from SOR2 or worse (SOR2 actually improved SOR graphics) and the characters I'm not a big fan of. The backgrounds don't stand out like other 2 games. I guess there are slight differences in bare knuckle 3 than SOR3 but I'd rather play Pyron color hack of Final Fight CD on Fusion than SOR3. It feels off from series in so many ways. The game is a blemish on series imo.

    "For the soundtrack to Streets of Rage 3 (1994), he created a new composition method called the "Automated Composing System" to produce "fast-beat techno like jungle."[2] It was the most advanced techno technique of the time, incorporating heavily randomized sequences.[1] This resulted in innovative and experimental sounds generated automatically that, according to Koshiro, "you ordinarily never could imagine on your own." This method was very rare at the time, but has since become popular among techno and trance music producers to get "unexpected and odd sounds."[3] The soundtrack also had elements of abstract, experimental, gabber,[29] and trance music.[30] The experimental electronic music was not very well received upon release, but has since been considered to be ahead of its time. According to Mean Machines, "ironically it pre-dated the 'trance' era that came a short while after release."[30]"

    Damn he is still doing vg music. Also he made/modded software for all of the SOR games.
    Last edited by Vector; 01-21-2018 at 05:31 AM.
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    Antiquing Hedgehog Lord QuickSciFi's Avatar
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    There is no doubt Streets of Rage 2 is the better game. I still think the intro from Part 1 is the best and most iconic song of all 3 (which was redone on part 2, but didn't quite have the same effect). You know, the one that sounds like Sadness from Enigma bitd. 'Loved that New Age stuff. As for part 3, I'm torn. It's not a bad game at the end of the day. I bet you anything that if it were easier (or beatable at that), the general consensus would be much different today.




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    OPN2 in DNA Hedgehog-in-TrainingRoad Rasher Peeteris's Avatar
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    Sorry but no.
    SOR3 is not that good of a game, būt Bare knuckle 3 is pure awesomeness.
    With english translation, it’s better than SOR 2 in many ways.
    Characters are significantly improved, they are more detailed and digitized voices are improved too.
    There’s now a storyline and dialogues.
    Gameplay is perfectly paced and OST just adds to it. On real hardware ost sounds really good and adds to the gameplay. This is the only SOR that makes my heart beat faster.
    How can game with a better and more fluid moves and animations be worse than it’s predecessor?
    The only downside I see is reduced detalization IN level design.

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    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
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    SOR III is the better made game and the more complete package imo. Sadly the music makes it a chore to play and the game was never going to have the same impact as the jump between SOR 1 and II was simply massive and like the jump with VF to VF II
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    The Cat in the Hat Shining Hero NeoVamp's Avatar
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    Bare Knuckle III is a good game, but weaker than SOR2.

    So when Sega USA violated BKIII and turned it into SOR3 they just kicked it even further down the ladder.

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    Other than the "upgraded" graphics (I really dont like them so much) for me basically was the boring pace of the levels. I guess the interesting places to play was already covered in Sor2 and Sor1, so that was left for Sor3 (or BK3) was... just... meh. On the top of that, the levels that should be cool (a disco? hell yah!) was not as nice as could be expected (The first bar for Sor2 was amazing!) that and the music... for me is a boring game. Why I should play sor3 when you have sor2....

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    OPN2 in DNA Hedgehog-in-TrainingRoad Rasher Peeteris's Avatar
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    SOR2 is my favorite game, but always I play it like a RPG, it’s just go and hit.
    SOR3(BK3) - unexpected gay-stereotype attack, flashing disco, unexpected story, rolling away from trains, running because of time limit and pumping-up music.

    When I first ran this game on an emulator, I though - what a joke! What is that terrible music coming out of my speakers!
    But when I got my mega drive and a boombox, I learnt to love OST of SOR3. It's really pushing mega drive's sound chips and Z80 to the limits. Literally. There's so much going on that on some tracks XGM player have slowdowns and framedrops.
    Last edited by Peeteris; 01-21-2018 at 07:56 AM.

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    I initially hated SoR3's music when I played it back in '94, but I'd changed my mind by the time I played it again a few years later through emulation. Unexpectedly the music had stuck in my head.

    As for the game itself: it plays better than SoR2. It's faster, more fluid, and with a larger moveset. However, the localisation really did a number on the game balance, so I infinitely prefer playing Bare Knuckle 3. Yes, SoR3 is a harder game to play through, but that's not necessarily a good thing, and it's not really what I'm looking for nearly 24 years after its original release. I'm not a fan of the censorship in SoR3 either. I can understand the removal of Ash, but the storyline and costume changes make no sense to me, and never did. It's similar to some of the neo-puritanism we've seen recently with regards to game localisations.

    I'm not a big fan of all the backgrounds, it has to be said. They're often grainy and dark, and unlike SoR2 there's no attempt to give them a sense of depth; you only walk left to right (or right to left) and there's no impression of moving in and out of the screen that 2 had.

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    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingSports Talker Nordak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peeteris View Post
    When I first ran this game on an emulator, I though - what a joke! What is that terrible music coming out of my speakers!
    But when I got my mega drive and a boombox, I learnt to love OST of SOR3. It's really pushing mega drive's sound chips and Z80 to the limits.
    New guy here, but had to say couldn't agree more. I recently installed a Mega Amp and through some decent Logitech speakers, there are subtleties in the soundtrack you just don't hear through a normal set up. I actually think it's brilliant..admittedly, it's an acquired sort of brilliance, but all the same, gets my adrenaline up. SoR 2 completely deserves its universal appeal, but I'm glad SoR3 ost exists.

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    Raging in the Streets Sik's Avatar
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    Having played Bare Knuckle 3 first, I seem to be the only one here who was actually disappointed with SOR2 instead... I mean yeah, I can see why people prefer SOR2 (mostly the setting), but goddamn the downgrade in the gameplay features. I had already gotten too accustomed to being able to run and not having a time limit was nice, and the way specials are handled in BK3 gave for a nice trade off (you could spend health if you needed it immediately, or instead use it sporadically and focus on getting better at dodging attacks for when you couldn't get away with normal punches). SOR2 lacking all that wasn't exactly fun.

    Has anybody ported those changes back into SOR2?


    EDIT: disclaimer, I only ever touched BK3, not SOR3 :v

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    SITE SUPERVILLAIN Outrunner Vector's Avatar
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    So did the composer use "Music Love" on all 3 games with modded settings because he said he used a new method (automatic instruments) for SOR3 but had the same software between all 3 games.

    "His soundtracks for the Streets of Rage series (known as Bare Knuckle in Japan) from 1991 to 1994 were composed using then outdated PC-8801 hardware alongside his own original audio programming language. According to Koshiro: "For Bare Knuckle I used the PC88 and an original programming language I developed myself. The original was called MML, Music Macro Language. It is based on NEC's BASIC program, but I modified it heavily. It was more a BASIC-style language at first, but I modified it to be something more like Assembly. I called it ‘Music Love'. I used it for all the Bare Knuckle games."[10]

    The soundtracks for Streets of Rage (1991) and Streets of Rage 2 (1992) were influenced by house, techno, hardcore techno,[2] breakbeat,[25] funk and ethnic music. He also attempted to reproduce the Roland TR-808 and TR-909 beats and Roland TB-303 synths using FM synthesis.[26] The soundtrack for Streets of Rage 2 in particular is considered "revolutionary" and ahead of its time,[8][9] for its "amazing blend of swaggering house synths, dirty" electro-funk and "trancey electronic textures that would feel as comfortable in a nightclub as a video game."[8]


    For the soundtrack to Streets of Rage 3 (1994), he created a new composition method called the "Automated Composing System" to produce "fast-beat techno like jungle."[2] It was the most advanced techno technique of the time, incorporating heavily randomized sequences.[1] This resulted in innovative and experimental sounds generated automatically that, according to Koshiro, "you ordinarily never could imagine on your own." This method was very rare at the time, but has since become popular among techno and trance music producers to get "unexpected and odd sounds."[3] The soundtrack also had elements of abstract, experimental, gabber,[29] and trance music.[30] The experimental electronic music was not very well received upon release, but has since been considered to be ahead of its time. According to Mean Machines, "ironically it pre-dated the 'trance' era that came a short while after release."[30]
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    Mega Driver Hedgehog-in-TrainingMaster of Shinobi Gryson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sik View Post
    Having played Bare Knuckle 3 first, I seem to be the only one here who was actually disappointed with SOR2 instead... I mean yeah, I can see why people prefer SOR2 (mostly the setting), but goddamn the downgrade in the gameplay features. I had already gotten too accustomed to being able to run and not having a time limit was nice, and the way specials are handled in BK3 gave for a nice trade off (you could spend health if you needed it immediately, or instead use it sporadically and focus on getting better at dodging attacks for when you couldn't get away with normal punches). SOR2 lacking all that wasn't exactly fun.

    Has anybody ported those changes back into SOR2?


    EDIT: disclaimer, I only ever touched BK3, not SOR3 :v
    This closely reflects my own experience and opinion, although I enjoy SOR2 a lot.

    Regarding the music: It's easy to criticize, and it's definitely jarring and hard to listen to when coming from a great soundtrack like SOR2. Nevertheless, in my opinion, it's one of the greatest 16-bit soundtracks. It has a chaotic, frenetic energy to it that perfectly matches the lawless, eponymous streets of rage. It's not something you listen to in order to relax, that's for sure, but it's not meant to be.

    It's an indication of the amount of freedom that Yuzo Koshiro was given that he was able to get away with the soundtrack. That's one reason I love 16-bit Sega. It's really hard to imagine any other publisher letting a highly experimental, boundary-pushing soundtrack like this into one of their flagship series.

    I highly suggest reading the following recent interview with co-composer Motohiro Kawashima:

    http://daily.redbullmusicacademy.com...hima-interview

    He talks at length about SOR3:

    We were trying to push the limits of game music. Both Koshiro-san and I had this question in our minds of what we could do with game music. We both decided we would try to do the most difficult thing in the sense of normal music, like where you start to ask yourself if something is even music. Underground Resistance and Jeff Mills definitely have these points, like playing the same sound over and over, or warping sounds, making things super noisy. They made music that would question whether what you were hearing was even fit to be called music. The ’90s was a really experimental time for club music, experimental in the big sense, but also in that there were a lot of experiments going on within the music. I think we shared an interest in seeing what would happen if we took those kinds of experiments and put them into game music.
    I much prefer this experimentation than just a rehash of SOR2's soundtrack. It might be hit-or-miss, but at least it's going somewhere new.

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    They can call it whatever genres they want. It's noise pollution to my ears. There's a few good tracks. Most of it is harsh noise strung together with hardly any melody. The drumtracks are weak compared to the previous entries.

    And Zan is such a lame character. Is he supposed to be the strongbad/wrestler type? Why not just put Adam or Max in there? I like the strong Haggar guys in my bmups.

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    Just discovered this: Fuze on a Roland MT-32




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    Quote Originally Posted by Silanda View Post
    I initially hated SoR3's music when I played it back in '94, but I'd changed my mind by the time I played it again a few years later through emulation. Unexpectedly the music had stuck in my head.

    As for the game itself: it plays better than SoR2. It's faster, more fluid, and with a larger moveset. However, the localisation really did a number on the game balance, so I infinitely prefer playing Bare Knuckle 3. Yes, SoR3 is a harder game to play through, but that's not necessarily a good thing, and it's not really what I'm looking for nearly 24 years after its original release. I'm not a fan of the censorship in SoR3 either. I can understand the removal of Ash, but the storyline and costume changes make no sense to me, and never did. It's similar to some of the neo-puritanism we've seen recently with regards to game localisations.

    I'm not a big fan of all the backgrounds, it has to be said. They're often grainy and dark, and unlike SoR2 there's no attempt to give them a sense of depth; you only walk left to right (or right to left) and there's no impression of moving in and out of the screen that 2 had.
    QFT.
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