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Thread: DVD Dreamcast / Sega Master System wasn't that big of a seller.

  1. #316
    Blast processor Melf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Talmit View Post
    Is this what they call gaslighting? There was no morph, there is a clear and direct response to a quoted statement from another poster.
    I could quote your own posts if it would help.

    I didn't see your post about Tonka, and I really don't care to bother now.
    Ah, who's bowing out now? Easier to dismiss than counter, I suppose.

    if this is what you call "addressing my arguments", then what can really be accomplished here?
    Given your responses thus far, not much, apparently.

    So the feature article in the Coleco Magazine which billed "SEGA'S Turbo" is irrelevant because the game was programmed by Coleco?
    Got it.
    I did address it in my previous reply:

    All that public perception in arcades and magazines you drone on about? It meant dick in regards to getting people to actually BUY their console.
    Last edited by Melf; 03-07-2018 at 02:19 PM.

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    Master of Shinobi Mega Drive Bowlsey's Avatar
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    Come on, just admit it. You changed your argument and moved the goalposts just like I said you did. You jumped from discussing the Master System to talking about Sega in general. You can't deny it.

  3. #318
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingRoad Rasher Prince Talmit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melf View Post
    I did address in my previous reply:

    "All that public perception in arcades and magazines you drone on about? It meant dick in regards to getting people to actually BUY their console."
    Except I've never been talking about buying consoles or sales number. So how does that apply to my statements about gamer's perception and awareness of Sega? It doesn't.

    When countering means going on about irrelevant programming and asset transfers I really don't have time for you.

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    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingRoad Rasher Prince Talmit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mega Drive Bowlsey View Post
    Come on, just admit it. You changed your argument and moved the goalposts just like I said you did. You jumped from discussing the Master System to talking about Sega in general. You can't deny it.
    Yes, I responded to your comment that "there was pretty much no Sega in the US until Genesis" This has been well established, the quotes and the posts are still there. I was done talking about Master System, and I made a reply to you where I quoted exactly what I was replying to, but this is moving goalposts??

  5. #320
    Blast processor Melf's Avatar
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    Oh good grief. You really can't see how the two are related? How if your product doesn't sell, public perception of you just MIGHT be an issue? Ok then, let me describe to you why that's relevant.

    By the time the MS came out, home video games were pretty much toxic in the U.S. What you fail to account for, and which has a LOT of weight in this, is Tonka's involvement. Everyone wonders why Sega sought a toy company with no game experience (but don't wonder why it chose the former CEO of Mattel to be its head?) and don't realize that Tonka was the one that had to be convinced. It wanted nothing to do with games after the crash, and it came aboard because it got a really sweet deal. When that went sour, it and Sega mutually parted ways.

    So, by 1986, Sega was not making games in the U.S., the arcade market was in a downturn, and home games were in really bad shape. Sega's good standing in 1980 meant little when pushing the MS half a decade later. The home console industry was quite different by the time the MS hit. Sega's public image as a gamemaker wasn't enough, plain and simple. The name did not sell Master Systems, and Sega had no corporate presence to push the product (see how that fits in there?). That's why Tonka was brought aboard and why public perception of Sega at the time meant nothing.

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    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingRoad Rasher Prince Talmit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melf View Post
    Oh good grief. You really can't see how the two are related? How if your product doesn't sell, public perception of you just MIGHT be an issue? Ok then, let me describe to you why that's relevant.

    By the time the MS came out, home video games were pretty much toxic in the U.S. What you fail to account for, and which has a LOT of weight in this, is Tonka's involvement. Everyone wonders why Sega sought a toy company with no game experience (but don't wonder why it chose the former CEO of Mattel to be its head?) and don't realize that Tonka was the one that had to be convinced. It wanted nothing to do with games after the crash, and it came aboard because it got a really sweet deal. When that went sour, it and Sega mutually parted ways.

    So, by 1986, Sega was not making games in the U.S., the arcade market was in a downturn, and home games were in really bad shape. Sega's good standing in 1980 meant little when pushing the MS half a decade later. That's why Tonka was brought aboard and why public perception of Sega at the time meant nothing.
    Very good.

    So what have we established here?
    That the Master System and Sega virtually almost sorta pretty much did not exists in the US until Genesis/Sonic?
    Is that what this was all about?

  7. #322
    Social Justice Ninja Master of Shinobi IrishNinja's Avatar
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    i like the point made a few pages back about the understated importance of sports games in the US - EA really lifted up the genesis, and that bit about NFL2K being among the top selling DC software says a lot too

    but back to this mess...melf:

    Then, it came back mid-decade in both the arcade and consumer markets. Hell, it sold its own arcade chain and bought it back, all within the span of 3 years!
    my god
    i had no idea about that last bit, but it sounds like the most sega like decision i've heard in a while, haha

    prince halfwit

    or in advertisements in comic books and other pop culture magazines, then gamers are aware of SEGA.
    if you're gonna go all over the map with anecdotal bits: can you show me some of those comic book & pop culture mag advertisements for the SMS? i must've missed em

    Look nimrod, my points about Sega being in the arcades and game magazines etc, is clearly in response to this:
    i know melf already addressed this, but: if we could create an alternate reality where chef boyardee had alex kidd on cans of spathetti-o's found in 2 stores in bosie, idaho, no doubt you'd wheel that out here too - and it would be added to the small list of sega's efforts that sadly didn't work on gaining them sales/relevance that gen

    I didn't see your post about Tonka, and I really don't care to bother now.
    way to have a discussion in good faith

    back to melf

    All that public perception in arcades and magazines you drone on about? It meant dick in regards to getting people to actually BUY their console.
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Melf again.

    By the time the MS came out, home video games were pretty much toxic in the U.S. What you fail to account for, and which has a LOT of weight in this, is Tonka's involvement. Everyone wonders why Sega sought a toy company with no game experience (but don't wonder why it chose the former CEO of Mattel to be its head?) and don't realize that Tonka was the one that had to be convinced. It wanted nothing to do with games after the crash, and it came aboard because it got a really sweet deal. When that went sour, it and Sega mutually parted ways.
    yeah, when you put it like that, their efforts to have an ill-fated relationship with tonka & then scooping up kalinske show a clear pattern, one rooted in the understanding that these would be marketed as toys.
    as an aside, it's crazy how much of this foundation sony took to build its PSX platform later on


  8. #323
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingWildside Expert OmegaMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IrishNinja View Post
    if we could create an alternate reality where chef boyardee had alex kidd on cans of spathetti-o's
    I'd certainly purchase Alex Kidd Spaghettios in that alternate reality,I'd purchase them in this reality also.

  9. #324
    Master of Shinobi Mega Drive Bowlsey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IrishNinja View Post
    i like the point made a few pages back about the understated importance of sports games in the US - EA really lifted up the genesis, and that bit about NFL2K being among the top selling DC software says a lot too

    but back to this mess...melf:



    my god
    i had no idea about that last bit, but it sounds like the most sega like decision i've heard in a while, haha

    prince halfwit



    if you're gonna go all over the map with anecdotal bits: can you show me some of those comic book & pop culture mag advertisements for the SMS? i must've missed em



    i know melf already addressed this, but: if we could create an alternate reality where chef boyardee had alex kidd on cans of spathetti-o's found in 2 stores in bosie, idaho, no doubt you'd wheel that out here too - and it would be added to the small list of sega's efforts that sadly didn't work on gaining them sales/relevance that gen



    way to have a discussion in good faith

    back to melf



    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Melf again.



    yeah, when you put it like that, their efforts to have an ill-fated relationship with tonka & then scooping up kalinske show a clear pattern, one rooted in the understanding that these would be marketed as toys.
    as an aside, it's crazy how much of this foundation sony took to build its PSX platform later on
    Oh absolutely. Sony took more than one leaf out of Sega's book when it came to marketing their Playstation. They really almost copied the edgy, coming-of-age attitude that embodied Sega's marketing for the Mega Drive/Genesis.

  10. #325
    Underground Sega Nut BonusKun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Talmit View Post
    Very good.

    So what have we established here?
    That the Master System and Sega virtually almost sorta pretty much did not exists in the US until Genesis/Sonic?
    Is that what this was all about?
    You really are being obtuse about the whole thing just so you can win an internet argument.
    05/05/15

  11. #326
    Master of Shinobi Mega Drive Bowlsey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BonusKun View Post
    You really are being obtuse about the whole thing just so you can win an internet argument.
    I'm not the only one who got that vibe then? Good to know.

  12. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mega Drive Bowlsey View Post
    I'm not the only one who got that vibe then? Good to know.
    Why hasn't anyone made a cheesy photoshop of Alex Kidd on a can of Chef Boyardee yet?
    05/05/15

  13. #328
    Social Justice Ninja Master of Shinobi IrishNinja's Avatar
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    i don't know, but i'd love to see it


  14. #329
    End of line.. Hero of Algol gamevet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mega Drive Bowlsey View Post
    The C64 may well have been killed in sales by the Speccy, but it was still very well known here.
    It was quite popular in the UK. The rivalry between it and the Speccy was quite real there, so much so, that Retro Gamer's Commodore 64 book also is their Spectrum book on the back half.







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    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



  15. #330
    Master of Shinobi Mega Drive Bowlsey's Avatar
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    Yep, like I said it was a very popular system.

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