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Thread: Dreamcast games with verified surround sound

  1. #16
    Shining Hero Joe Redifer's Avatar
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    Q Sound never worked well in arcades because it was rarely on games where you could stand directly and equally between the two speakers. I didn't think Ecco had any good effects, even with headphones. Q Sound was all hype, no bite. It just happened that Q Sound had a good marketing team and a few in the videogame industry fell for their spiel. Dolby Pro Logic and Pro Logic II are both proven technologies with years and years of research behind them. Not that they really matter any more.

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    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
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    Stage 3 to Ecco CD had really good sound space in the music and in Pen Pen, I found some nice separation in the swimming sections

    The trouble with Dolby was not many people had that sort of set up in 1993 and it cost quite a lot of money. So it made sense to try and look for clever ways of just using 2 speakers.
    I was always impressed with the sound separation from just 2 speakers in Snatcher and Road Adv on the Mega CD .

    I think my 1st experience of Dolby Road Rash on the 3D0 where you could hear the traffic behind you and it was like a game changer at the time LOL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post

    The trouble with Dolby was not many people had that sort of set up in 1993 and it cost quite a lot of money. So it made sense to try and look for clever ways of just using 2 speakers.
    I was always impressed with the sound separation from just 2 speakers in Snatcher and Road Adv on the Mega CD .
    Precisely.

    But the necessary space to put up a sound system with good results could also be a constraint for many, especially if the room one plays in is small or already crowded with other objects, furniture, etc

    In my case when I first got a 2nd hand Cambridge Soundworks PS2000 I was blown away with the sound I was getting from just 2 speakers placed in the corner of the room!

    Interestingly, that sound system in particular also seems able to deal with analogue sources with early type of dolby surround encoding to it. Either that or it fakes it very well through the CMSS setting.

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    Mega Driven Raging in the Streets cleeg's Avatar
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    So this where I get a bit confused... Eventually I want to get an AV HDMI receiver with surround sound. I don't want anything too fancy, and might not even go for 7.1, staying with 5.1 if the price is better, but if I watch say, a Blu Ray with a 7.1 or Atmos soundtrack, will I miss anything? Or would the receiver / Blu Ray player do some magic to ensure the sound is distributed throughout the setup accordingly?

    Any recommendations / tips? I also have a vintage B&O quodrophonic hifi, which I think I'll just use for music, though I'm still thinking of integrating it somehow into the gaming setup...

  5. #20
    The Gentleman Thief Baloo's Avatar
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    Cleeg: check out my latest post in the HiFi Stereo thread in Off-Topic.
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    Thank you Baloo, I can't rep you.

  7. #22
    End of line.. Hero of Algol gamevet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    Stage 3 to Ecco CD had really good sound space in the music and in Pen Pen, I found some nice separation in the swimming sections

    The trouble with Dolby was not many people had that sort of set up in 1993 and it cost quite a lot of money. So it made sense to try and look for clever ways of just using 2 speakers.
    I was always impressed with the sound separation from just 2 speakers in Snatcher and Road Adv on the Mega CD .
    They certainly weren't trying then. I pieced together a Pro-Logic surround setup, by buying open box stereo equipment from Best Buy. I had a full blown surround sound setup by the summer of 1993 and was making less than $14 hour back then.

    The Sony STR-D990 came out in 1992.

    https://usermanual.wiki/Sony/STRD990.3567019342


    Look at some of the inputs that thing had. It even had a connection for DAT.

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    Last edited by gamevet; 01-16-2021 at 09:14 PM.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



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    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    They certainly weren't trying then. I pieced together a Pro-Logic surround setup, by buying open box stereo equipment from Best Buy. I had a full blown surround sound setup by the summer of 1993 and was making less than $14 hour back then.
    Overlooking SONY Hi-Fi equipment was never cheap, also like £100 more for similar products. Most sperate Hi-Fi amp's cost over £300 in the UK in the early '90s and that's before you even added speakers, even by the time of the Xbox, I didn't know many people with a separate sound amp for sound sound and making use of 5.1, USA could well be different
    I had surround sound from my Philips separate Hi-Fi that I got for £250 in a Dixsons ex-display weekend offer in 1993. To be honest I didn't such much difference in games that used Dolby to those that's didn't as the sound was coming out of the back speakers no matter and didn't heard that much sound separation from Fifa on the Mega CD. That changed the time I got Road Rash on the 3DO and you could hear traffic that was behind you and was really impressed with the number of RARE titles that used Dolby on the N64. It was a pain moving the wires and all that, so didn't make that much of Dolby until I got my Kenwood Dolby Digitial stet up with the OG XBox and also at that time got a Philips TV widescreen TV with built in Dolby

    For most of the 90's I had a Nicam TV with built-in speakers each side and my old PC 14 monitor had speakers on the sides, so it was easy to get in the correct position for me with the Mega CD and Dreamcast for Q sound. Stage 3 to Ecco CD on the Mega CD had some epic sound separation and it really did fill the room, I wasn't that impressed at all with Terminator on the Mega CD, but did experience some ok sound separation with Jurassic Park on the Mega CD. For The DC, on the Sonic Adv intro, I heard some nice sound separation and on stages like Twinkle park. Pen Pen underwater sections seemed to fill my room with sound as did to parts to D2

    Nothing to a dedicated setup but still quite impressive with just a basic 2 speaker set up. The real game changer moment came for me playing Halo in 5.1 in Digital on my Kenwood with throwing a grenade and hearing grunts going flying over my head and through each of the back speakers separately with the sound of debris coming to throw the front speakers. Then was no going back from that moment on
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  9. #24
    End of line.. Hero of Algol gamevet's Avatar
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    Pioneer was more expensive than Sony. I decided I was going to get a surround sound setup, after hearing my friendís Pioneer setup. I started out with just the receiver and a couple of cheap Pioneer speakers, then got a pair of JBL bookshelf speaker that were open box at Best Buy for $90.

    I had the system paired up with a Fisher Hi-Fi VCR that I got on clearance from a rental center. The day that thing died was almost heart breaking. Movies sounded awesome with Pro-Logic surround, and so did some of the Dolby SNES games I played through that receiver.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



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    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    Pioneer was more expensive than Sony. I decided I was going to get a surround sound setup, after hearing my friendís Pioneer setup. I started out with just the receiver and a couple of cheap Pioneer speakers, then got a pair of JBL bookshelf speaker that were open box at Best Buy for $90.

    I had the system paired up with a Fisher Hi-Fi VCR that I got on clearance from a rental center. The day that thing died was almost heart breaking. Movies sounded awesome with Pro-Logic surround, and so did some of the Dolby SNES games I played through that receiver.
    I don't remember any shop selling Pioneer stuff in my area you went up to SONY and that was it and SONY stuff always cost like a £100 more than similar products from JVC, Panasonic Ect and funilly enough my 1st ever job was working in Curry's LOL .
    Like I said I never saw many benefits from using Dolby for the early stuff as the sound was coming out of the back speakers anyway and you had the issue of my rather using the Scart RGB lead to RCA leads if I wanted surround sound on systems with no separate Left Right outs

    Road Rash on the 3DO was a big marker for surround sound but playing Halo in 5.1 was the real game changer for me and when I looked to play all games in surround sound. It's disappointing to see how little sound gets covered even today by the likes of Digital Foundry; they just focus on graphics and that's it. Such a shame when the stunning use of Dolby Atmos in Gears 4 and COD Modern Warefare adds so much to the experience.
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  11. #26
    End of line.. Hero of Algol gamevet's Avatar
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    It certainly sounds more like Sony didnít have any competition, if JVC, Philips and Panasonic were their competitors over there. Over here it was Kenwood, Pioneer (we all thought they were an American company), Yamaha, Onkyo and Sony. Sony was the best bang for the buck, because the others were a lot more expensive. I paid over $500 for my 27Ē Sony Trinitron back @ 1995, because Sony really didnít have any competition in the CRT market, other than Toshiba with their Trinitron clone televisions and Panasonicís flat screen CRTs. My receiver was only $300 (open box), because it was last years model. Compare that to something similar to what Kenwood, or Pioneer was selling, and it was $100 cheaper. I wouldnít even think of looking at something from JVC or Phillips, because they werenít considered high quality in the 90s, and were peddling trash under the guise of their quality products from the 80sí.

    I mainly got my receiver to watch movies in surround and it was a plus that there were a few SNES games, like Star Fox, that supported the format. There were other games on the SNES that supported it as well, but didnít put the Dolby logo on the box, to avoid paying licensing fees to Dolby Labs.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/miniSNESmod...tent=post_body
    Last edited by gamevet; 01-18-2021 at 01:07 PM.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    It certainly sounds more like Sony didnít have any competition, if JVC, Philips and Panasonic were their competitors over there. Over here it was Kenwood, Pioneer (we all thought they were an American company), Yamaha, Onkyo and Sony. Sony was the best bang for the buck, because the others were a lot more expensive. I paid over $500 for my 27Ē Sony Trinitron back @ 1995, because Sony really didnít have any competition in the CRT market, other than Toshiba with their Trinitron clone televisions and Panasonicís flat screen CRTs. My receiver was only $300 (open box), because it was last years model. Compare that to something similar to what Kenwood, or Pioneer was selling, and it was $100 cheaper. I wouldnít even think of looking at something from JVC or Phillips, because they werenít considered high quality in the 90s, and were peddling trash under the guise of their quality products from the 80sí.

    I mainly got my receiver to watch movies in surround and it was a plus that there were a few SNES games, like Star Fox, that supported the format. There were other games on the SNES that supported it as well, but didnít put the Dolby logo on the box, to avoid paying licensing fees to Dolby Labs.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/miniSNESmod...tent=post_body
    I don't agree that just because SONY cost more they were better. I remember when I got my Panasonic portable DVD L50 on holidays in Hong Kong and it was light years of the SONY offering and cheaper too. I was always super impressed with what Kenwood could offer for its price, but that's another Topic.
    I didn't really care for Surround sound in the early 90's, so little games used and other than Fifa on the Mega CD or Super Turrican 2 on the Snes, I never really bothered to try and change the sound options, that started to change with the 3DO and the N64 and then I went into full flight when I had my X Box in 2001 and finally could experience Dolby Digital for games and films

    Playing Halo in 5.1 was a total game changer. Even now mind I don't know that many people will a full surround set up even on some of the gaming forums. Which is such a shame, I love how Atmos was used in the likes of Gears IV and COD or even in games like Shadow Of the Tomb Raider. Shame for films and while the film might be dire, the use of Atmos in The Predator 2018 is the best I've heard in any film to date.

    Like said I find it such a shame that the likes of Digital Foundry hardly cover or give time to sound design in games, much less where all the staff have the full Dolby Atmos set up Ect. It's really poor when how sound is used can really add to the game and its impact on the player.
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  13. #28
    End of line.. Hero of Algol gamevet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    I don't agree that just because SONY cost more they were better. I remember when I got my Panasonic portable DVD L50 on holidays in Hong Kong and it was light years of the SONY offering and cheaper too. I was always super impressed with what Kenwood could offer for its price, but that's another Topic.
    I didn't really care for Surround sound in the early 90's, so little games used and other than Fifa on the Mega CD or Super Turrican 2 on the Snes, I never really bothered to try and change the sound options, that started to change with the 3DO and the N64 and then I went into full flight when I had my X Box in 2001 and finally could experience Dolby Digital for games and films

    Playing Halo in 5.1 was a total game changer. Even now mind I don't know that many people will a full surround set up even on some of the gaming forums. Which is such a shame, I love how Atmos was used in the likes of Gears IV and COD or even in games like Shadow Of the Tomb Raider. Shame for films and while the film might be dire, the use of Atmos in The Predator 2018 is the best I've heard in any film to date.

    Like said I find it such a shame that the likes of Digital Foundry hardly cover or give time to sound design in games, much less where all the staff have the full Dolby Atmos set up Ect. It's really poor when how sound is used can really add to the game and its impact on the player.
    I was talking about their televisions, which were considered the best in the consumer market, as well as their studio monitors that are heavily sought out today, for their RGB quality.

    I was saying that if Sony's stereo equipment was the most expensive over there, it's because they didn't have any competition. Sony over here was what you bought if you couldn't afford Kenwood, Yamaha or Pioneer. You didn't buy it because it was the best. You bought it, because it was the best bang you could get for your cash.

    And, like I said, surround sound wasn't that scarce around here. By the late 90's they were selling cheap all-in-one surround sound kits for people to connect to their televisions. Just because you weren't interested at the time, doesn't mean anything about the discussion.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    I was talking about their televisions, which were considered the best in the consumer market, as well as their studio monitors that are heavily sought out today, for their RGB quality.

    I was saying that if Sony's stereo equipment was the most expensive over there, it's because they didn't have any competition. Sony over here was what you bought if you couldn't afford Kenwood, Yamaha or Pioneer. You didn't buy it because it was the best. You bought it, because it was the best bang you could get for your cash.

    And, like I said, surround sound wasn't that scarce around here. By the late 90's they were selling cheap all-in-one surround sound kits for people to connect to their televisions. Just because you weren't interested at the time, doesn't mean anything about the discussion.

    SONY are to me, very like Apple and look to charge over £100 more than their rivals based on name alone and where most of their rivals offer products of similar spec and quality at a cheaper price. I won't try and pretend I knew about the USA audio sector in the 90's or took any interest in it, but I will just say what it was like in the UK. In the 90's TV and separate sound amps were big ticket items, cost a lot of money and were investments you looked to hold on to for decades. Kenwood in the UK (not the Kitchen one) were the brand you looked to go to, for quality products at a reduced price and if wanted cheap crap you went to Amstrad LOL, the likes of SONY and Yamaha were super high end and you never really saw a Pioneer products in Wales.

    Not many gamers had a surround sound set up in the 90's, in the UK it was hugely expensive and even today when I look at some people gamer rooms on the various forums there's no surround sound set up's its expense loads can do with out.
    I can only say the truth and say that for me I didn't see much different from playing the likes of Super Turrican 2 on the Snes or Fifa on the Mega CD in dolby, I saw a big improvement with Road Rash on the 3DO and when I got my Xbox in December 2001
    I was lucky enough just a few weeks later to get a 5.1 Dolby Digital Kenwood amp in a Richersounds manager special; basically an unboxed ex display model, with speakers thrown in and also more discount for playing in cash . That's ,when I really heard the massive impact of surround gaming could have.

    I get annoyed a little when even today so little focus is given to sound in reviews of games. Playing Gears IV in Atmos was just an incredible experience like the 1st time you heard a Wind Flair storm come in; It was a real stand out moment for me with this generation of sound
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  15. #30
    Shining Hero Joe Redifer's Avatar
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    Sony is not a go-to name when it comes to sound. I mean look at the SNES. Everyone hates the sound it makes. But seriously for electronic equipment like receivers and speakers etc etc Sony was just kind of blah. At least Apple offers good products (wouldn't trust them for sound though). I recently went from a Pioneer to a Denon AVR and the Denon doesn't sound as good as the Pioneer to me and the unit itself is a bit clunkier to control. It also refuses to see the internet any more. That's because it would drop picture on Xbox One or PS4 after it was powered on for a few minutes until I reselected the input I was using. Updating firmware didn't help, so Denon wrote me a special firmware that I had to update over USB, and that killed the unit's internet functionality. I am waiting for Pioneer to get HDMI 2.1 and then I'm going back.

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