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View Poll Results: Which was the worst (or most hated)

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  • Atari 2600

    2 9.09%
  • Odyssey II

    2 9.09%
  • Intellivision

    1 4.55%
  • ColecoVision

    0 0%
  • Atari 5200

    6 27.27%
  • Vectrex

    0 0%
  • Channel F

    1 4.55%
  • Arcadia 2001

    1 4.55%
  • RCA Studio II

    7 31.82%
  • Other

    2 9.09%
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Thread: Worst of the Pre-NES Systems

  1. #31
    The Future is Yesterday Hedgehog-in-TrainingESWAT Veteran Leynos's Avatar
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    Same. Even too obscure for me. Tho I was never that interested in pre-NES systems despite beginning on them.

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  2. #32
    End of line.. Hero of Algol gamevet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by axel View Post
    I had never even heard of the Arcadia 2001 before this thread, it looks several years out of date even for 1982. I can give the RCA Studio II a pass since the VCS wasn't out yet and the Channel F was brand new, but there was no point in releasing something that dated in the early '80s.
    The Channel F was a really bad console.



    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



  3. #33
    Master of Shinobi
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    The Channel F was a really bad console.
    Not in 1976... back then it was the best console on the market!

  4. #34
    _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ Master of Shinobi NeoZeedeater's Avatar
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    I think the Channel F had a one year window of being impressive in the context of its time before the VCS came out. It was programmable and in colour. I was too young in 1976 to have played it then but I had some fun with it after the fact.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeoZeedeater View Post
    I think the Channel F had a one year window of being impressive in the context of its time before the VCS came out. It was programmable and in colour. I was too young in 1976 to have played it then but I had some fun with it after the fact.
    In 1975-76 just having a microprocessor was revolutionary. The Channel F had some advantages over the VCS, if it had been supported for longer I wonder what else we could have seen from it. When I learned more about the VCS I was amazed at what people were able to do with such limited hardware, the 1970s were truly the stone age of consoles.

  6. #36
    Raging in the Streets Sik's Avatar
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    Channel F had a lot of issues… like the FCC constantly meddling in causing every single cartridge to be delayed (they only stopped meddling when the VCS was coming out, by which point it was too late). Also it was being manufactured with defective RAM that was being thrown to the trash (turns out like about 80% of the chips still worked just fine), until they got caught and were forced to pay for all the RAM they stole… Er, yeah. Also they lacked the ambition regarding how far to push games that Atari had (of course, Atari had their arcade experience for the job), a lot of the games were straight-up recreations of tabletop games. And remember how much a cartridge costed.

    Although yeah, it's easy to miss how much hardware was progressing. BASIC Programming on the Atari 2600 feels like a joke, with its extremely limited memory (and only room for 9 lines worth of code) and awkward keypad… until you realize it was released in 1979 (lemme repeat: the '80s hadn't started yet). The alternative if you wanted to learn BASIC programming at home was to shell out for expensive S-100 based computers (with any required accessories for the job) which often came in kits you had to assemble yourself. Home computers would only really start taking off a couple of years later and were still a lot more expensive (in an era where this stuff was extremely expensive in general).

    Incidentally, one thing BASIC programming does that could be really useful in modern debuggers is that it didn't just list out the current sentence being executed, but the individual steps making it up (including the partial results from every operator and the order in which they were being processed). I suppose it was added in part for teaching and in part because they could, but when debugging complex operations that aren't doing what they're supposed to do it could definitely help shed light on what's going on.

  7. #37
    Death Bringer ESWAT Veteran Black_Tiger's Avatar
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    The 2600 was released in 1977. The Intellivision was released in 1979.
    Quote Originally Posted by year2kill06
    everyone knows nintendo is far way cooler than sega just face it nintendo has more better games and originals

  8. #38
    Raging in the Streets goldenband's Avatar
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    The Channel F also had interesting controllers that could be used in ways other than the usual joystick + fire button combo.

    I got a 5200 for Christmas back in the day, and while the controllers were literally broken out of the box (the fire buttons were basically dead), at least the games themselves were fun once we got a 2600 controller > 5200 adapter.

    I don't see how the Studio II doesn't take this one in a landslide. It's a neat relic, but neither the system itself nor the cockamamie input method have much merit. If I want lo-res monochrome graphics, the MicroVision is a better option.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sik View Post
    Channel F had a lot of issues… like the FCC constantly meddling in causing every single cartridge to be delayed (they only stopped meddling when the VCS was coming out, by which point it was too late). Also it was being manufactured with defective RAM that was being thrown to the trash (turns out like about 80% of the chips still worked just fine), until they got caught and were forced to pay for all the RAM they stole… Er, yeah. Also they lacked the ambition regarding how far to push games that Atari had (of course, Atari had their arcade experience for the job), a lot of the games were straight-up recreations of tabletop games. And remember how much a cartridge costed.

    Although yeah, it's easy to miss how much hardware was progressing. BASIC Programming on the Atari 2600 feels like a joke, with its extremely limited memory (and only room for 9 lines worth of code) and awkward keypad… until you realize it was released in 1979 (lemme repeat: the '80s hadn't started yet). The alternative if you wanted to learn BASIC programming at home was to shell out for expensive S-100 based computers (with any required accessories for the job) which often came in kits you had to assemble yourself. Home computers would only really start taking off a couple of years later and were still a lot more expensive (in an era where this stuff was extremely expensive in general).

    Incidentally, one thing BASIC programming does that could be really useful in modern debuggers is that it didn't just list out the current sentence being executed, but the individual steps making it up (including the partial results from every operator and the order in which they were being processed). I suppose it was added in part for teaching and in part because they could, but when debugging complex operations that aren't doing what they're supposed to do it could definitely help shed light on what's going on.
    Thanks, I didn't know that about the Channel F, never seen one in person.

    I cannot imagine using BASIC on the 2600. My first experience using BASIC was on an Apple IIe, around 1989. Not exactly high end for the time but when I look back at how much these machines cost there's no wonder very few homes had them.

  10. #40
    _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ Master of Shinobi NeoZeedeater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldenband View Post
    I don't see how the Studio II doesn't take this one in a landslide.
    Maybe they're focusing on the "most hated" part of the poll (which I think is different than worst). It's not surprising the 5200 would be most hated as it was the only one to have major expectations from consumers. Every other choice in the poll was a first proper/programmable console for its company and didn't have a legacy it had to live up to.

  11. #41
    The Future is Yesterday Hedgehog-in-TrainingESWAT Veteran Leynos's Avatar
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    Also pretty obscure at this point in time.

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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeoZeedeater View Post
    Maybe they're focusing on the "most hated" part of the poll (which I think is different than worst). It's not surprising the 5200 would be most hated as it was the only one to have major expectations from consumers. Every other choice in the poll was a first proper/programmable console for its company and didn't have a legacy it had to live up to.
    Exactly. The bar was lower in the 1970s where it was impressive to have anything beyond simple pong games. Atari was the leader at the time and they really dropped the ball with the 5200.

  13. #43
    End of line.. Hero of Algol gamevet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by axel View Post
    Not in 1976... back then it was the best console on the market!
    Was it?

    It was outsold by Pong clones and other gimmick hardware of the time. It was nearly $170, which is like $700+ today, and considering that minimum wage was less than $2 an hour, it would take a really long time to save up the money to get one. The games were also like the early stuff on the VCS that I avoided, like Hang Man and Poker.

    Then there was a bunch of better games in the arcades being offered by Atari. I played Key Games Tank in the local roller rink around 1975. It was way better than anything on the Channel F and it was awesome that the game was part of Combat for the VCS. Still, it took 3 years before the VCS took off and that was because of Atari licensing Space Invaders for the console in 1980.
    Last edited by gamevet; 09-28-2018 at 09:47 PM.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    Was it?

    It was outsold by Pong clones and other gimmick hardware of the time. It was nearly $170, which is like $700+ today, and considering that minimum wage was less than $2 an hour, it would take a really long time to save up the money to get one. The games were also like the early stuff on the VCS that I avoided, like Hang Man and Poker.

    Then there was a bunch of better games in the arcades being offered by Atari. I played Key Games Tank in the local roller rink around 1975. It was way better than anything on the Channel F and it was awesome that the game was part of Combat for the VCS. Still, it took 3 years before the VCS took off and that was because of Atari licensing Space Invaders for the console in 1980.
    First you compare it to much cheaper Pong clones and then to much more expensive arcade hardware? Was it supposed to compete with both high end and low end hardware at the same time?

    My idea of "best" is that if it's 1976 and I have to pick the console I'd most like to play at that time, it would easily be the Channel F. The Odyssey and Pong machines don't even come close.

  15. #45
    End of line.. Hero of Algol gamevet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by axel View Post
    First you compare it to much cheaper Pong clones and then to much more expensive arcade hardware? Was it supposed to compete with both high end and low end hardware at the same time?

    My idea of "best" is that if it's 1976 and I have to pick the console I'd most like to play at that time, it would easily be the Channel F. The Odyssey and Pong machines don't even come close.


    The games were horrible. They were pretty much the bottom feeder titles you’d find on the VCS, or even worse. Even that tank game looks like a broken mess. There’s a reason that the console only sold 250,000 units, while the slightly more expensive VCS had mederate success from the start, because it had good software.

    Yes, you do compare the Channel F to what was available at the time. The VCS had arcade ports from day 1, while the Channel F had sloppily programmed titles. And those cheap Pong clones were more interesting to the masses.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



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