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Thread: Pack-in title: Necessary or not?

  1. #16
    Japanese Sonic CD FTW!!! Master of Shinobi Ecco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by axel View Post
    I didn't know that about the PSX. Sony might have been a newcomer to consoles but so far as brand recognition they were one of the biggest names in electronics in the '90s, they had a reputation for putting out high quality products. Even before I ever saw a PSX game I figured it would be a big deal because Sony was behind it. (Of course, this was before I learned that Sony is actually several companies and quality control has been inconsistent on some of their product lines, in addition to some questionable decisions on how they interact with their customers).
    Haha good point, I've spent my whole life considering SONY as a great stereo maker. I have a SONY stereo on my desk right now. This goes way before the Playstation days but honestly I don't know why I got the idea in the 1st place lol.

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    Road Rasher paulojr_mam's Avatar
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    Back then was more necessary. I think since PSX era is more useful to make a pack-in choice, where the gamer can chose the game that comes with the console. But that is on stores to do and not on the publisher.
    -Meu blog sobre Mega Drive/Genesis.
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    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingWildside Expert molul's Avatar
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    The pack was necessary for the Genesis to have a chance against NES and before SNES was released.

    Most of the Genesis my friends and family bought had 6 games (two "3 in 1" cartridges).

    Today, I would sell the console and give a 50% discount on whatever first game you want to buy. As that's not happening, I use to wait for a sale. I got my Switch for 260 and Sonic Mania Plus for 10 in October. Saved like 80.

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    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingNameless One nitelich's Avatar
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    A pack-in title was absolutely required by my parents to justify buying a game console, right up until the Xbox 360 came out (because my sibling and I were old enough to hold jobs and pay for games ourselves at that point). So, until then we had a Genesis (with Altered Beast pack-in) and a Game Gear (with Sonic 2 pack-in) that my parents bought, and a PS1 that was bought on sale around the time the PS2 came out, with chore-based allowance money.
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  5. #20
    Mega Driver Hedgehog-in-TrainingMaster of Shinobi Gryson's Avatar
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    So what happened between 1991 when the Genesis needed a pack-in title to succeed and 1995 when the PlayStation smashed its way into the market without a pack-in?

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    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingNameless One Zygrunt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gryson View Post
    So what happened between 1991 when the Genesis needed a pack-in title to succeed and 1995 when the PlayStation smashed its way into the market without a pack-in?
    In 91 Nintendo had all the devs and all the market under its wing. The Genesis was having a hard time beating the NES and the SNES was coming soon.

    In 95 Sony competitors were focusing on software themselves and were not giving enough attention to devs which turned to Sony. Sony won the devs and the press and created hype before the launch that the Genesis never had in its release.

    That's not to say that packing in Sonic was Sega's only choice but making the Genesis cheaper than the upcoming SNES and packing in the hottest game available at the time made the console, which wasn't performing as well as they wished, suddenly much more desirable.

  7. #22
    Raging in the Streets Sik's Avatar
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    Let's not forget the part where Sony made a much bigger impression with the PS1's 3D capabilities (even if it was a glorified tech demo), while Sega erm, they screwed up quite hard in that regards at that time if I recall correctly (and Nintendo didn't have a console with good 3D graphics coming soon either), during a time where "3D is the wave of the future" was at its peak. Which also led to the "Saturn sucks at 3D" reputation (and later "Saturn fakes 3D with 2D" bullshit when people learned that polygons and sprites were done the same way, despite PS1's triangles being as 2D as those).

    If Sega had done a better job showing the Saturn's 3D capabilities at the time (especially if it involved Sonic), then Sony may have had more pressure to deal with and may have gone with a proper pack-in.

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    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingNameless One nitelich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sik View Post
    If Sega had done a better job showing the Saturn's 3D capabilities at the time (especially if it involved Sonic), then Sony may have had more pressure to deal with and may have gone with a proper pack-in.
    You mean if "Sonic Xtreme" was more than just a pipe dream?
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  9. #24
    End of line.. Hero of Algol gamevet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gryson View Post
    So what happened between 1991 when the Genesis needed a pack-in title to succeed and 1995 when the PlayStation smashed its way into the market without a pack-in?
    Sony included a demo disc that had samples of games you could try out. It also had cool tech demos on the disc.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



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    Mega Driver Hedgehog-in-TrainingMaster of Shinobi Gryson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    Sony included a demo disc that had samples of games you could try out. It also had cool tech demos on the disc.
    So you think people were buying a PS1 with thought to the demo disc? Was the demo disc really a selling point - an adequate replacement for a pack-in? The demo disc I got in 1996 had 4-5 playable games, each with about 1-2 minutes of game play. It was a good way to experience different games, but I don't think I ever spent more than 15 or 20 minutes on it. I certainly never felt "Well, the Saturn has a pack-in but the PlayStation has a demo disc!!" And then there's the fact that the N64 didn't have a pack-in or demos and still sold boatloads a year later.

    It seems to me that the Genesis had to go full out to break into the market, and that meant giving away its best game and dropping its price below cost. In other words, it was better to establish market share to pave the way for future success, even if it meant very low profits.

    The PlayStation, on the other hand, was in a different situation. The market was already split, the technology really felt next-generation, and the price was relatively low. I think Kutaragi was confident that, with the technology and games they had, the PlayStation would be competitive even without a pack-in. And that allowed him to shift focus to profit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gryson View Post
    So you think people were buying a PS1 with thought to the demo disc? Was the demo disc really a selling point - an adequate replacement for a pack-in? The demo disc I got in 1996 had 4-5 playable games, each with about 1-2 minutes of game play. It was a good way to experience different games, but I don't think I ever spent more than 15 or 20 minutes on it. I certainly never felt "Well, the Saturn has a pack-in but the PlayStation has a demo disc!!" And then there's the fact that the N64 didn't have a pack-in or demos and still sold boatloads a year later.

    It seems to me that the Genesis had to go full out to break into the market, and that meant giving away its best game and dropping its price below cost. In other words, it was better to establish market share to pave the way for future success, even if it meant very low profits.

    The PlayStation, on the other hand, was in a different situation. The market was already split, the technology really felt next-generation, and the price was relatively low. I think Kutaragi was confident that, with the technology and games they had, the PlayStation would be competitive even without a pack-in. And that allowed him to shift focus to profit.
    I never saw the PSX demo discs back in the day, I just looked at a few on YouTube and I thought they were pretty good for showing off what the hardware could do. I think the Saturn had to come with something because 1) it was a very expensive console at launch and 2) few games were available. Unfortunately none of the Saturn launch titles was really a killer app.

  12. #27
    End of line.. Hero of Algol gamevet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gryson View Post
    So you think people were buying a PS1 with thought to the demo disc? Was the demo disc really a selling point - an adequate replacement for a pack-in? The demo disc I got in 1996 had 4-5 playable games, each with about 1-2 minutes of game play. It was a good way to experience different games, but I don't think I ever spent more than 15 or 20 minutes on it. I certainly never felt "Well, the Saturn has a pack-in but the PlayStation has a demo disc!!" And then there's the fact that the N64 didn't have a pack-in or demos and still sold boatloads a year later.

    It seems to me that the Genesis had to go full out to break into the market, and that meant giving away its best game and dropping its price below cost. In other words, it was better to establish market share to pave the way for future success, even if it meant very low profits.

    The PlayStation, on the other hand, was in a different situation. The market was already split, the technology really felt next-generation, and the price was relatively low. I think Kutaragi was confident that, with the technology and games they had, the PlayStation would be competitive even without a pack-in. And that allowed him to shift focus to profit.

    It came with 2 controllers, which was just as good as getting a game. Later PlayStation would have a Crash Bandicoot as a pack-in, I believe. They could have just included Ridge Racer, but that game had less play value then the games on the demo disc.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



  13. #28
    Mega Driver Hedgehog-in-TrainingMaster of Shinobi Gryson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    It came with 2 controllers, which was just as good as getting a game. Later PlayStation would have a Crash Bandicoot as a pack-in, I believe. They could have just included Ridge Racer, but that game had less play value then the games on the demo disc.
    I think you might be mistaken. There weren't any PS1 releases that I know of that came with two controllers. And there were also no official Crash pack-in releases (at least, that I can find any evidence of). The PlayStation stayed quite bare-bones throughout its lifetime: you got the console, a single controller, a power and A/V cable, and a demo disc.

    I also question how you can say that 1-2 minutes of game play for 4-5 games surpasses a full release of one of the PlayStation's hottest titles. Did you actually play any of the demo discs that came with the PlayStation in 1995 or 1996? Again, we're not talking shareware levels of content here; it was very limited.

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    End of line.. Hero of Algol gamevet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gryson View Post
    I think you might be mistaken. There weren't any PS1 releases that I know of that came with two controllers. And there were also no official Crash pack-in releases (at least, that I can find any evidence of). The PlayStation stayed quite bare-bones throughout its lifetime: you got the console, a single controller, a power and A/V cable, and a demo disc.

    I also question how you can say that 1-2 minutes of game play for 4-5 games surpasses a full release of one of the PlayStation's hottest titles. Did you actually play any of the demo discs that came with the PlayStation in 1995 or 1996? Again, we're not talking shareware levels of content here; it was very limited.
    Yeah, I just looked at the box from my PlayStation I'd purchased in January of 1996. It did indeed come with one controller. I have 2 of those dpad controllers sitting in a bin. I don't remember buying a second digital pad controller, but I do rememeber buying a DS1 and Ascii arcade stick.

    The demo disc came with a single level of each game. You had one event from Destruction Derby, one race from Extreme Sports, a single level of Jumping Flash and a single race in Wipeout. There might have been some other game on the disc, I'm thinking Battle Arena Toshinden? I've bought and sold Ridge Racer twice. It felt like there wasn't much to do after winning the race, other than race the harder modes and mirrored tracks. It was pretty disappointing, because of its lack of tracks.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



  15. #30
    Outrunner maxi's Avatar
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    At that release price, Sony would be crazy to pack a game with the PSX and lose even more money with each console sold.

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