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Thread: What prevents the Dreamcast from being my favourite console

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    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingNameless One SegaDreamcast's Avatar
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    Personally, the Dreamcast controller is my favorite of all home consoles. I thought the VMUs were amazing with the addition of Chao mini-games in Sonic Adventure and generally something always on their screen when you played a game. Just wish they didn't make that beeping sound when they ran out of battery.

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    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SegaDreamcast View Post
    Personally, the Dreamcast controller is my favorite of all home consoles. I thought the VMUs were amazing with the addition of Chao mini-games in Sonic Adventure and generally something always on their screen when you played a game. Just wish they didn't make that beeping sound when they ran out of battery.
    Well when I created this thread, I was prepared to do a lot of agree to disagreeing about the Dreamcast controller.
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    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
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    I will say one good think about the DC Pad, for the analogue stick is the best one going
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    I will say one good think about the DC Pad, for the analogue stick is the best one going
    yeah, the stick was pretty good, and probably one of the most durable.
    Surely they didn't use cheap parts for the pad.

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    From the moment I saw the DC controller upon it's unveiling in mid 1998, I never liked it. Yes, it's modeled on the excellent Saturn 3D pad, and it was okay for most of SEGA's arcade conversions. But for most other games, which, at the time, were becoming more complex with more input commands, it was lacking enough buttons. Immediately it is missing two face buttons, which are essential for a large part of what the DC is remembered for: Capcom fighting games. While I love the analogue stick and the analogue triggers, especially for racing games, as others have mentioned on here, the triggers are RSI inducing after long plays. The controller is too angular in its design and is far from comfortable to use for long periods. These days, people complain about the lack of a second analogue pad. This wasn't something that I felt was necessary back in the late 90s, but playing any first-person shooters or third person action-adventure games now reveals how important it was to have this feature in an era where these genres were becoming much more popular and camera control was becoming a necessity for players. The cord coming out of the bottom is an odd choice but I can live with it since you can clip it on the back anyway.

    What I found odd is that SEGA seemed to be thinking backwards when developing the DC controller and memory card system. Yes, rumble was becoming a staple of games, but Sony chose the right route and built it into their controllers rather than needing an accessory like the N64. Why didn't SEGA do this? It would have made the DC pad less bulky without the need for a second expansion port.

    Further, the Mega CD and Saturn had internal save data instead of requiring memory cards (even if an expansion cart was eventually needed if you had a sizable collection). In this way, requiring a memory card, like you needed for the PS1, makes the the VMU seemed like a step backwards, especially considering how little data you could store on it. I understand Tamagochi was big around this time and I can see why SEGA implemented this into the design, but I have never tried any of the VMU games because the style of games were far too limited to interest me. That said, I like how some developers, such as Capcom with the Resident Evil games, took the initiative and made use of the VMU as a second screen for vital information, like health and ammo, 14 years before the release of the Wii U.

    Don't get me wrong: I love the Dreamcast and it's library of games. It was a time of huge innovation from SEGA. I've just never been fond of the controller and VMU because they seem like a step backwards to me, of SEGA copying its rivals rather than being the innovative and independent hardware manufacturer they had been before this.

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    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
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    Something just came to my mind. They did the right thing by releasing the broadband adapter, thats part of the theme of this thread of getting the console more similar to its competitors. So they got that right. They also needed a updated controller and memory cards, DVD cases and possibly Component output, would've made it perfect as a 6th gen competitor.
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    That Windows CE logo.

    Otherwise, I enjoyed my time with NBA 2K2.

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    I agree with everything that is written in the OP and I like SEGA and the more I like SEGA the less I like Dreamcast, the console is poorly engineered, and it shouldn't use GD it should be normal CD, it should be bigger and it should have support to an elegant expansion where you could easily swap the entire CD rom block for an ADD-on DVD rom. the add-on would come with more internal memory and auxiliary chips. The only thing they got right was to keep a single analog, two analogs would be an insult IMO.


    Every strategy and concept behind Dreamcast was totally wrong, so the console deserved its end.

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    The Future is Yesterday Hedgehog-in-TrainingESWAT Veteran Leynos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SegaAMD View Post
    I agree with everything that is written in the OP and I like SEGA and the more I like SEGA the less I like Dreamcast, the console is poorly engineered, and it shouldn't use GD it should be normal CD, it should be bigger and it should have support to an elegant expansion where you could easily swap the entire CD rom block for an ADD-on DVD rom. the add-on would come with more internal memory and auxiliary chips. The only thing they got right was to keep a single analog, two analogs would be an insult IMO.


    Every strategy and concept behind Dreamcast was totally wrong, so the console deserved its end.

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    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingNameless One SegaDreamcast's Avatar
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    If anything the Sega Dreamcast was way, way beyond its time. First to really bring broadband/online gameplay to the masses, MMORPG in Phantasy Star Online, experiment with microphones in a certain Leonard Nimoy voiced classic, keyboard/mouse/internet integration. Picture perfect arcade gameplay for in many ways the last generation of arcades with the Model 3 conversions and incredible Capcom lineup (Marvel vs Capcom, Power Stone). Sports games that not only innovated but set the standard. NBA2K is still the defacto king today. Exclusives like Resident Evil: Code Veronica, Soul Calibur. Sega did everything right for the 9/9/99 launch, great variety of titles for everyone.

    I feel it was more general media attention towards waiting for the PS2 that hurt the Dreamcast sales wise from gaining its rightful share. Along with the combo of pulling the plug on several consoles early like the Saturn and 32X consecutively that created consumer skepticism. Sega should have stayed the course, instead of going third party imo.

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    End of line.. Hero of Algol gamevet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SegaAMD View Post
    I agree with everything that is written in the OP and I like SEGA and the more I like SEGA the less I like Dreamcast, the console is poorly engineered, and it shouldn't use GD it should be normal CD, it should be bigger and it should have support to an elegant expansion where you could easily swap the entire CD rom block for an ADD-on DVD rom. the add-on would come with more internal memory and auxiliary chips. The only thing they got right was to keep a single analog, two analogs would be an insult IMO.


    Every strategy and concept behind Dreamcast was totally wrong, so the console deserved its end.
    The GD ROM disc could store more data and wasn't as easily pirated as a CD ROM disc. That eventually got cracked, but still, it was a better solution than a standard CD.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    The GD ROM disc could store more data and wasn't as easily pirated as a CD ROM disc. That eventually got cracked, but still, it was a better solution than a standard CD.

    The point is that this media would be obsolete anyway, by suggesting to use the normal CD I aimed to lower the cost, because in the future would offer an add-on for a higher media similar to dvd. if it wasn't to be so then it was better not even to launch Dreamcast in 98, leave it to 2001.

    Expansion port is a feature of SEGA that was abandoned in Dreamcast project

    But everything that involves this console is wrong, even some games of it should not have existed, I feel that Bernie Stolar wanted a console that looked like the Playstation 1 in simplicity at the same time thought that could recover market if it was released before the playstation 2, There are many miscalculations, release first in a generation is a very big risk, chances of failure are huge, in the history of consoles only two consoles were successful before entering first than competitor, xbox 360 and Genesis, xbox 360 because managed to make a worldwide launch and hit 10M quickly before the PS3 arrived, of course Sony helped make the PS3 very expensive.

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    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SegaAMD View Post
    , I feel that Bernie Stolar wanted a console that looked like the Playstation 1 in simplicity at the same time thought that could recover market if it was released before the playstation 2, There are many miscalculations, release first in a generation is a very big risk, chances of failure are huge, in the history of consoles only two consoles were successful before entering first than competitor, xbox 360 and Genesis, xbox 360 because managed to make a worldwide launch and hit 10M quickly before the PS3 arrived, of course Sony helped make the PS3 very expensive.
    I think that was more SEGA Japan with them doing focus testing and getting feedback that the Saturn pad had too many buttons Ect.
    Thanks to that silly focus testing we got a DC pad with only one analogue stick and just 4 face buttons, which was a utter cock up. I still say Bernie did a good job with the launch of the DC its just a shame he upset the likes of Working Designs and Shiny entertainment
    I really think WD would have looked to have translated the likes of Sakura Wars III for the Dreamcast

    For me though the biggest mistakes were made by SEGA Japan with their software.

    Daytona USA 2001 should have included all the tracks and cars from the Model 2 and Model 3 games as well as the new stuff.

    Sega Rally II should have been delayed and made used SEGA's latest tools to get the game up to Model 3 visuals. It should have also had Online play and support online ranking modes, and players being to upload and download save replays.

    The World Wide Soccer Saturn team should have been put to making a sequel on the DC.

    SEGA Japan should have supported Camelot better with Scenario 3 and then had the team to begin work on a Dreamcast sequel.

    Jurassic Park: The lost World Gun Game should have been ported to the Dreamcast. For me at the time it was the best light gun game around and looked amazing.

    Deep Fear Should have been canned for the Saturn and moved up to DC production.

    SEGA GT - Needed to be so much better and why was it given to AM#1 and not to AM#2 or AM#3 to handle: Teams who Racers did so much better
    Last edited by Team Andromeda; 01-11-2020 at 10:47 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SegaAMD View Post
    Expansion port is a feature of SEGA that was abandoned in Dreamcast project
    The DC has an expansion port. It is used by a bunch of accessories like the Karaoke board, the BBA, and the modem.

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    End of line.. Hero of Algol gamevet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SegaAMD View Post
    The point is that this media would be obsolete anyway, by suggesting to use the normal CD I aimed to lower the cost, because in the future would offer an add-on for a higher media similar to dvd. if it wasn't to be so then it was better not even to launch Dreamcast in 98, leave it to 2001.
    The GameCube had a mini DVD and couldn't play DVD movies, yet the console sold 22 million units.

    The reality is that Sega, Nintendo and Microsoft had to battle against a followup to one of the most succesful consoles ever. The original PlayStation outsold the combined numbers of the SNES and N64. The PS2 was gauranteed to be a success before any console hit retail. None of the other consoles had that luxury. Sony could have just walked up to the podium at E3 1999 and said "PS2 October 2000" and it would of had the same impact as their $299 announcement for their previous console.
    Last edited by gamevet; 01-12-2020 at 11:06 PM.
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