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Thread: @Sega: fix the Mega Drive Mini sound delay or riot!

  1. #241
    WCPO Agent cabear's Avatar
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    how hard is it to extract the tetris and darius roms? i'd like to add them to my Shield for play on that versus the genesis mini.

  2. #242
    Road Rasher
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    You can find them, google is your friend!

  3. #243
    Outrunner Stef's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TulioAdriano View Post
    So now that I got my hands on the inside of the MD Mini and was able to pull the roms out, I was testing Darius on real hardware (it froze on me once o_O) then I saw the SGDK notice in the options and that made me curious... what exactly from SGDK did they use in Darius? Does anyone know?
    The guy who developed Darius used SGDK to do it. At some point they considered to develop their own sound driver but they were out of time so ended using the one in SGDK (XGM driver).

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sik View Post
    Well, I just whipped up this patch quickly, but no guarantees that it works:
    https://plutiedev.com/dl/game_no_kan...uyou_patch.ips

    Remember, Mega Everdrive only, it won't run on the original Everdrive (which doesn't use RAM).
    Well, as you said, I can confirm it doesn't work on Everdrive v3. Would a patch for this (flash instead of ram) be possible?
    Lists of MD games: officially licensed (~925) @ cart sizes @ Top 5 @ Top 250 @ Sonic hacks @ best title screens @ Arcade ports (150) @ best European games

  5. #245
    Raging in the Streets Sik's Avatar
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    Nope, Flash is a completely different beast and would require completely rewriting the decompression code and risk wearing the Flash even further. May as well get one of the existing standalone ROMs (as all the games in that collection are available as standalone).

  6. #246
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingNameless One Pha's Avatar
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    I know the original megadrive well.

    I tested a sega megadrive mini koreen for 1 hour, and I quickly felt good things :

    The quality of the emulation seems to respect the original sound and music generators.

    Nothing to say about graphical emulation

    It was easy for sega to recreate a miniature chassis model from the original plans.

    ...and less good:

    One there is a problem with sound sampling (we are far away from the rendering of the hyperwide sound spectrum of the original megadrive: the DAC suffers from obvious limitations)

    For the sound emulation, again, part there is a kind of sensitive shift that often appears when the level is initialized (special stage of Sonic 2 for example).

    There is a delay with the controller (between pressure and action) I immediately felt this with Sonic...

    Some say that there is no desynchro, that the rendering is very accurate: perhaps a problem with hdmi standard certain generation of TV .

    In short, there is a problem it is obvious just compare (even Kega does better...)

    In the meantime Sega has not done things properly sorry but the holding company can still update its console....

    But all solutions are good so that the cause of this problem can be identified and corrected for owners of mini md/gs.
    An innovative game on md/gs ? I vote for.

  7. #247
    ACHTUNG! MD angeschaltet! Hedgehog-in-TrainingNameless One eukara's Avatar
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    All I can add is that my brother his Mega Drive mini (Euro release) doesn't seem to have any noticeable sound delay.
    I could clearly see it in Joe Redifer's videos, but I just cannot reproduce it on my setup at all.
    I think it's been said elsewhere that the Euro release, as it was released much later, may have addressed the issue.

    Personally, as someone who's played MD off and on in the past, the mini I played was fine. I played it so much my brother got me my own, real good-audio model 1 Mega-Drive as an early Christmas present.
    I play that one on my CRT, too. Can't really describe any crazy input lag on the mini either. It was all fine.
    If there's slight differences in audio, it'll probably be so minuscule that the change in TV setup required introduces more noticeable differences.
    My only complaint I have, is that the CRT filter is horrendous.

    In my opinion, the mini will probably make for a fine holiday present, as long as you're Euro.
    And in the end the whole deal got me (and probably others who want to play more than the builtin games) a real MD.

  8. #248
    For great justice! Outrunner Tor Landeel's Avatar
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    I received my unit (Euro release) some days ago and I HATE IT because of the sound delay.
    I love the aesthetics, the gamepads and the interface, but the lag is ruining every game for me, as I notice it everywhere.

    The only reason people would not notice it, in my opionion, is because they haven't set game mode and the tv lag is almost aligned to the sound lag.
    I don't really believe there are different batches.

    I also considered to return it, but I'm keeping it hoping the upcoming hack will solve the issue (and because I see my kids loving it)
    ***** トル・ランディール ******
    Cadash Arcade Colors hack:
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  9. #249
    Toejam is a wiener. Master of Shinobi SEGA-Jorge's Avatar
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    I have been playing this thing at a pals house. I really don't think the delay is enough to cause massive issues. I was playing CV Bloodlines, Contra Hard Corps, and I tested VF2 for crazy inputs, and I was hitting all my combos and crouch dash throw/instant overhead setups. I am sure that there are some people that play games at a level that require frame perfect stuff, but outside of that, I don't see this as an issue. It's great for what it is. Once the hacks are live, I imagine this thing is going to be a really attractive alternative to many people that are interested in exploring the Genesis library, which is all we really were hoping this would accomplish.

    I've mentioned this before, if perfect emulation was what people were expecting, that was going to be a long shot. Even then, for the hardest of the hardcore, real hardware and crt's are the way to go. I'll be using this as a travel Genesis, for taking with me to places, or for showing to friends that haven't played Genesis stuff. It's perfect for that. I'll keep playing my real hardware as well though.

  10. #250
    Master of Shinobi
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    My guess is everyone complaining is because they are not used to emulation outside PC. Button pressing lag is at least as annoying as any possible sound lag. I too noticed on Sonic. Itīs inherent to emulation when on ARM I think...
    Lists of MD games: officially licensed (~925) @ cart sizes @ Top 5 @ Top 250 @ Sonic hacks @ best title screens @ Arcade ports (150) @ best European games

  11. #251
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingOutrunner Stifu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chilled View Post
    My guess is everyone complaining is because they are not used to emulation outside PC.
    I think it's fair to compare the Mega Drive mini to Raspberry Pis, which don't suffer from such severe audio lags (even though the situation is confusing, since people report very different experiences with the Mega Drive Mini).

  12. #252
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingNameless One Pha's Avatar
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    The scene of the 16-bit Sega specific emulation has existed for more than 20 years now ,which means the expertise is established and there is no excuse : we know what people expect.

    Selling a product in response to Nintendo with a design flaw knowing that it was expected looks like sabotage.

    At the same time it will be decisive in this large-scale anomaly is whether people can accept mediocrity or not.

    The rendering original material is not respected, it is a binary reasoning but it is a fact.
    An innovative game on md/gs ? I vote for.

  13. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tor Landeel View Post
    I don't really believe there are different batches.

    I also considered to return it, but I'm keeping it hoping the upcoming hack will solve the issue (and because I see my kids loving it)
    Nobody knows for sure, but the evidence sure suggests there is a batch issue. My Jp model has zero audio lag, and Iíve seen the Youtube videos that exhibit the phenomena and can categorically tell you my unit does not suffer the same lag.

    Based on the number of complaints in this thread, perhaps Iím the lucky few not to have a dodgy unit.

    Perhaps we should start a thread where we list region, serial number and a pre-defined set of games/sound effects to test? Maybe we can identify the units that are affected by audio lag this way?

  14. #254
    Mega Driver Hedgehog-in-TrainingMaster of Shinobi Gryson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stifu View Post
    I think it's fair to compare the Mega Drive mini to Raspberry Pis, which don't suffer from such severe audio lags (even though the situation is confusing, since people report very different experiences with the Mega Drive Mini).
    The 4 frames of audio lag reported by Retro RGB reflect exactly what you find on RPi.

    The input lag also seems to be about the same as RPi as well.

    It's still not clear what's going on with the drastically different reports of audio lag, though.

    It doesn't help that it was initially misreported as 11 frames, then corrected down to 8 frames, with independent measurements putting it at 4 frames.

    Then there's the separate issue of people playing on different TVs which might be introducing further lag.

  15. #255
    Toejam is a wiener. Master of Shinobi SEGA-Jorge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gryson View Post
    The 4 frames of audio lag reported by Retro RGB reflect exactly what you find on RPi.

    The input lag also seems to be about the same as RPi as well.

    It's still not clear what's going on with the drastically different reports of audio lag, though.

    It doesn't help that it was initially misreported as 11 frames, then corrected down to 8 frames, with independent measurements putting it at 4 frames.

    Then there's the separate issue of people playing on different TVs which might be introducing further lag.
    I was going to say, RPi totally has some lag, from my experience. Also, doesn't almost all stuff lag on current HD tv's to some degree? I mean, the fighting game community has to deal with it constantly.

    RetroRGB channel on Youtube was mentioning that this lag was pretty much on par with Raspberry Pi emulation, so I think that would be relatively decent. The variable lag really is a bummer, but I don't think most people notice it.

    Didn't the SNES Mini also have lag? I swear that was an issue plaguing all the mini consoles.
    Last edited by SEGA-Jorge; 12-10-2019 at 03:40 PM.

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