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Thread: Re-releases of Mega Man: Wily Wars and Toaplan shmups by Retro-Bit Gaming

  1. #31
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingWildside Expert Virtua Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sik View Post
    Somebody some time ago started whining that all homebrew was purely for the sake of "collectards" and not aimed against people who want to play games (or they'd be made exclusively for modern platforms according to them) and for whatever stupid reason other members here decided to pick up the term even when they disagreed.

    And yes, that's pathetic if you ask me.
    I'm new here so I don't know how it's used on sega 16, but generally "collectard" is used for all those collectors non-gamers, who basically pay insane prices and ruin the retro and vintage market to everyone in the process.

  2. #32
    Toejam is a wiener. Master of Shinobi SEGA-Jorge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sik View Post
    Somebody some time ago started whining that all homebrew was purely for the sake of "collectards" and not aimed against people who want to play games (or they'd be made exclusively for modern platforms according to them) and for whatever stupid reason other members here decided to pick up the term even when they disagreed.

    And yes, that's pathetic if you ask me.
    Sometimes you run into other enthusiasts that forget how hard it is to meet other likeminded people. They should be encouraging any interest in their hobby. Especially one as uncommon/niche as this. Whenever I meet another person with interest in retro gaming, I'm all about introducing them to the genesis. I have a separate Genesis welcome box. With a model 2, some controllers, and a batch of games that i can take to gatherings for just this occasion hahah. Spreading the good word! Sometime you gotta set those SNES/PC Engine fans straight! And sometimes they just weren't exposed to the cool library of the Genesis. There's lots to love.

  3. #33
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingWildside Expert Virtua Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SEGA-Jorge View Post
    What is this "collectard" garbage? Not a big fan of singling out any facet of the game collecting/ retro community. Whatever any individual sees in a hobby is purely subjective, it's kinda weird to see enthusiasts push against interest in their extremely niche hobby.

    That being said, I do dislike how hard and expensive collecting for this console has become, but there needs to be some consideration put into the nature of the hobby itself. We're looking for old software for old hardware, ideally in good shape, preferably in original packaging. This is a tall order. I picked up a complete Techno Clash last weekend. That was released in August of 1993. That game is 26 years old. Put that into perspective, very few things last that long, have this kind of demand gained no value. I got it for $25. less than half of what it probably sold for. Most games are going for less than than they sold for, so we are not in a complete retro wasteland yet. We have options.

    As far as original software goes, I do agree that this is generally something that the hardware enthusiasts should be more interested in, but again, flash carts, repros are exactly the same software. The hardware is what we are concerned with. It's nice to have original software, but it's at the hardware level where all this breaks down. Having access to options for software, be it in digital form, collectable reproduction, or officially licensed reproduction is not bad, It's good for the hobby as a whole. There will be a time that almost all the existing original software will be too expensive to collect at the local/public level, or will start degrading. Encouraging further development, and testing/creating a new market for rereleases of desirable 4th gen software is in everyone's long-term best interest.

    Additionally, none. Read: NONE of the repro stuff should look exactly like the old stuff. It should be in addition to your existing collection. It's reprint stuff. It starts its own cycle of value on the secondary market. It should look better than old stuff, have more fun inserts, and additional content in the packaging. Breath life into a new market. Don't simply add to an existing market. Otherwise, yes, anyone can make better repros. R-Type III is a good example. That is MORE desirable than the original, for collectors and new fans alike. I own a boxed R-Type III, and the re-release had me going crazy. It's a good looking, well-constructed package. Re-releases of these games should be handled like special editions of movies we really love. My only request is that Sega give it the green light, so it's at least an official reprint, rather than a glorified repro.
    I agree with most of your post.
    But in the end these licensed repros are not made to preserve these games, they are made just to give an additional option to people that cannot spend $300-$500 for Megaman Wily or Gley Lancer.

    It would be a positive thing if they were made right and if they have an additional value compared to the originals, but if the look is not right, the quality is not right (gley lancer), the quantities are limited (a limited print run defeat the purpose of a reprint, it should be made to make the game less rare, not to give more copies to resellers), if the price is not right...then it's not a very good option in my opinion.

  4. #34
    Mega Driver Hedgehog-in-TrainingMaster of Shinobi Gryson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virtua Hunter View Post
    I agree with most of your post.
    But in the end these licensed repros are not made to preserve these games, they are made just to give an additional option to people that cannot spend $300-$500 for Megaman Wily or Gley Lancer.

    It would be a positive thing if they were made right and if they have an additional value compared to the originals, but if the look is not right, the quality is not right (gley lancer), the quantities are limited (a limited print run defeat the purpose of a reprint, it should be made to make the game less rare, not to give more copies to resellers), if the price is not right...then it's not a very good option in my opinion.
    Not quite... These games are reproduced in order to bring a profit to a business. Some corners were cut on the Gley Lancer re-release, for example, but it still sold like crazy. Buyers might eventually learn their lesson, but for the time being, I don't think there is much incentive for companies like Retro-Bit to risk their profits trying to make these "perfect" re-releases. "Good enough" is still going to sell well.

  5. #35
    Raging in the Streets Sik's Avatar
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    To be fair, with Gley Lancer there was the issue that the lack of beveling in the board means that there's risk of bending the cartridge slot pins because it's too tight to fit i.e. there's risk of long term damage to the console. Lack of Sega logos is nothing in comparison, at worst it looks ugly, but it won't wreck anything.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gryson View Post
    Not quite... These games are reproduced in order to bring a profit to a business. Some corners were cut on the Gley Lancer re-release, for example, but it still sold like crazy. Buyers might eventually learn their lesson, but for the time being, I don't think there is much incentive for companies like Retro-Bit to risk their profits trying to make these "perfect" re-releases. "Good enough" is still going to sell well.
    Of course, profits always drive these initiatives.
    All retro games that are past the $200 are going to sell like crazy with these re-releases, because you have no alternative, probably official repro will become another big business in the retro market, even companies like Limited Run Games started to sell re-releases.

  7. #37
    Toejam is a wiener. Master of Shinobi SEGA-Jorge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sik View Post
    To be fair, with Gley Lancer there was the issue that the lack of beveling in the board means that there's risk of bending the cartridge slot pins because it's too tight to fit i.e. there's risk of long term damage to the console. Lack of Sega logos is nothing in comparison, at worst it looks ugly, but it won't wreck anything.
    Stuff like this is just unacceptable though... That sort of QA issue needs to be addressed/guarded against. Last thing I want is a new game damaging a classic console.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sik View Post
    To be fair, with Gley Lancer there was the issue that the lack of beveling in the board means that there's risk of bending the cartridge slot pins because it's too tight to fit i.e. there's risk of long term damage to the console. Lack of Sega logos is nothing in comparison, at worst it looks ugly, but it won't wreck anything.
    Exactly.
    But how can you know the quality of a re-release before buying?
    And with the "hurry up, limited quantities" business formula, if you wait for other buyers / beta testers to confirm the quality, you'll arrive late.

  9. #39
    Mega Driver Hedgehog-in-TrainingMaster of Shinobi Gryson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sik View Post
    To be fair, with Gley Lancer there was the issue that the lack of beveling in the board means that there's risk of bending the cartridge slot pins because it's too tight to fit i.e. there's risk of long term damage to the console. Lack of Sega logos is nothing in comparison, at worst it looks ugly, but it won't wreck anything.
    I think the lack of bevel issue is a bit overblown, though. The bevel allows for gentler initial contact with the connectors when the cart is inserted, but just inserting the cart a bit more gently should take care of that (and should be done whether or not there is a bevel to prolong the life of the slot connectors). Absence of bevel does not make it a tight fit. Of course, the PCB should be the same thickness as originals. Whether or not there is a bevel, the slot connectors will be stretched and held to the thickest point of the PCB contacts.

  10. #40
    Raging in the Streets Sik's Avatar
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    Yeah, it's not as bad as the voltage issue, but it does make it more likely that you'll push too hard at an angle you shouldn't (something to be said about usability here). And inserting a cartridge is already harder than it would seem at first (as a kid I always struggled pushing them down enough to make them work and always had to ask for help, I would be surprised if there aren't at least some adults who struggle too, especially those hands aren't in best shape).

    When you're dealing with three decades old hardware skimping on quality is the least thing you want. Even if the platform in question has a reputation for being a tank.

  11. #41
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    If the price are like their other carts on the site, around $34.99, then I'm in. I'm can't justify paying over $100 for Truxton original and I'm exited about getting Zero Wing.

  12. #42
    Raging in the Streets Sik's Avatar
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    Dumb thought but: does anybody know if the Wily Wars release is based on the EEPROM or SRAM revision?

  13. #43
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    I'd worry more about PCB thickness than voltage issues concerning mid term damage to the console. Are they using regular or flash chips? those re-releases aren't much better than aliexpress repros IMO, even having original developer/publisher license doesn't mean a lot to me, at least not as much as having Sega's as original hardware manufacturer would be, though we know that's not possible (I wonder why the reluctance from them to do so, though).

    EDIT: some look, quality wise, like regular american/european repros, some even a bit worse...
    Lists of MD games: officially licensed (~925) @ cartridge sizes @ Top 5 @ Top 250 (controversial) @ Sonic hacks @ best title screens @ Arcade ports (150) @ best European games

  14. #44
    Extreme Procrastinator Master of Shinobi Flygon's Avatar
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    NOR Flash is pretty sturdy, which seems to be what is usually used for Parallel Flash. Certainly more sturdy than ancient practically life-expired ERPOM.

    The tricky bit is that 5v Flash isn't really a thing above 8mbits.

  15. #45
    Raging in the Streets Sik's Avatar
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    What makes anybody think that Sega wouldn't make the same blunders? It's not like they're gonna order 5V mask ROMs and I'm not sure anybody there remembers the specs for those boards anymore (and they'd probably outsource it to the cheapest bidder anyway).

    Anyway, I asked about EEPROM vs SRAM because there are two revisions of Wily Wars, the first one used serial EEPROM (which wasn't emulated until Fusion came along) and a later one used SRAM+battery. And I'm not sure anybody wants batteries in this day (that said, serial EEPROM should still be cheaper even with all the support circuit, so I wouldn't put it past them to have actually gone with that one).

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