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Thread: 2nd generation console discussion(Intellivision, Colecovision, 2600, Odyssey 2)

  1. #241
    Master of Shinobi Thenewguy's Avatar
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    Scrolling was an important aspect in the evolution of shmups.

    During the sort of "second wave" of arcade shmups there was a lot of experiments and gimmicks looked into as a way to keep the genre fresh, and I feel like scrolling won out as the direction of travel pretty quickly, certainly 1984 at the absolute latest, when games like Xevious (released end of 1983), 1942, and Star Force reigned in the shmup world.

    But really, I'd argue it had already started around 1982 when games like Time Pilot, and Moon Patrol were about, as well as 2600 games like River Raid, its port of Vanguard, Empire Strikes Back (which inexplicably became quite popular here in Britain via its C64 clone "Attack of the Mutant Camels") as well as its well respected clone of Defender "Chopper Command" etc etc. One of the biggest shmups on Spectrum was a clone of Konami's 1981 arcade game Scramble called "Penetrator"

    Unlike with platformers, A lot of these shmups simply aren't possible with flick-screen progression, you need to constantly see ahead.
    Last edited by Thenewguy; 01-24-2020 at 12:50 PM.

  2. #242
    End of line.. Hero of Algol gamevet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamahl View Post
    Well to be fair the 2600 is really good at explosion sounds. I don't think any chip besides the POKEY can do better (without PCM)
    Ahem! SID

    The CV version is reproducing the sounds of the 2600 game just fine. Yeah, POKEY was quite amazing for its time. Really, the explosion sound is just white noise with reverb. I donít get why Intellevision games seem to struggle with that.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



  3. #243
    Raging in the Streets goldenband's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    Uh....the Intellivision version of River Raid was the choppiest version on consoles. The sound effects are the worst of the bunch as well. The explosions are the generic sound you'd get in most games for the console. Hell, even the 2600 had better explosion sounds in this game.

    I don't know what's going on with that video you posted, but this one is captured from real hardware:



    Much smoother.

  4. #244
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingSports Talker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Tiger View Post
    Opcode Games sort of is, depending on what you consider a real Colecovision. They were debating whether to go with a screen-by-screen or choppy scrolling version for the Colecovision + Super Game Module. Apparently they gave up on that and are now making it for their new FPGA console, the hardware of which is in their new Super Game Module 2 which has a cart port.

    This is pretty much what their Intellipxander was going to be and the footage below of their SGM2 game shows why I was relieved that they cancelled the Intellixpander:




    Wait.. what is this SGM2 expansion thing?! So this is just some fans dream of what colecovision would look like in the 16bit generation with an addon? That thing is ridiculous haha. Why even have it attach the coleco at all??? It's like as if the 32x was actually a Saturn! Just why..

  5. #245
    Death Bringer Raging in the Streets Black_Tiger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by turboxray View Post
    Wait.. what is this SGM2 expansion thing?! So this is just some fans dream of what colecovision would look like in the 16bit generation with an addon? That thing is ridiculous haha. Why even have it attach the coleco at all??? It's like as if the 32x was actually a Saturn! Just why..
    Although they're pitching it as more 32X-like, it's basically the same thing as that "adaptor" to play Genesis games on SNES.
    Quote Originally Posted by year2kill06
    everyone knows nintendo is far way cooler than sega just face it nintendo has more better games and originals

  6. #246
    Death Bringer Raging in the Streets Black_Tiger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldenband View Post
    I don't know what's going on with that video you posted, but this one is captured from real hardware:



    Much smoother.
    I had to say it once per page earlier and I guess it's still required: most videos online of Intellivision games are inaccurate. If they aren't buggy emulation or terrible captures, the player more often than not hits "1" and starts a game on practice or slo-mo mode and doesn't use an overlay or read the manual to learn how to play.
    Quote Originally Posted by year2kill06
    everyone knows nintendo is far way cooler than sega just face it nintendo has more better games and originals

  7. #247
    End of line.. Hero of Algol gamevet's Avatar
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    @Goldenbond

    I guess the guy was playing Intellivision Lives, or something like that, on a newer PC. I canít even run The Atari Anniversary collection on my old 2009 rig, because the game was probably written for single core CPU PCs.


    Quote Originally Posted by turboxray View Post
    Wait.. what is this SGM2 expansion thing?! So this is just some fans dream of what colecovision would look like in the 16bit generation with an addon? That thing is ridiculous haha. Why even have it attach the coleco at all??? It's like as if the 32x was actually a Saturn! Just why..
    Itís pretty much like having the RAM (Plus some) from the Adam computer expansion module and adding an AY sound chip. Itís like having the expansion pack for the N64 and a sound chip added to a cart like the NES did. Coleco was forward thinking in the design of it console. Unfortunately, Coleco released the Adam Computer expansion, which pretty much bankrupted the company out of business.


    http://www.colecovision.dk/sem.htm?refreshed



    Oh, the SGM2. Well, Nintendo added CPUs and other chips to their carts, so why not?
    Last edited by gamevet; 01-24-2020 at 02:08 PM.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



  8. #248
    Death Bringer Raging in the Streets Black_Tiger's Avatar
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    The Super Game Module that Opcode sells isn't what Coleco designed but never released. The Opcode SGM would have bankrupted Coleco without the existence of the Adam.


    Nintendo never added an Xbox to the SNES and left the SNES to just output the video and pass through controller input.
    Quote Originally Posted by year2kill06
    everyone knows nintendo is far way cooler than sega just face it nintendo has more better games and originals

  9. #249
    Smith's Minister of War Hero of Algol Kamahl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    Ahem! SID
    Nah, not crunchy enough, I like crunchy explosions like the sound you get when you die in Battlezone for the 2600. SID is smooth, which is why it is the superior chip, just not for explosions.
    This thread needs more... ENGINEERS

  10. #250
    Raging in the Streets goldenband's Avatar
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    That SGM2...what is it trying to be, exactly? Some sort of consolized MSX2+?

    I see it'll still use the ColecoVision CPU for handling input/output and sound, ŗ la the Z80 in the Genesis. But at that point, why involve the CV at all?

    Wasn't there some other "upgrade" that did something like this, i.e. where the host system really isn't doing anything significant and is little more than a passthrough? There were the Atari 2600 adapters for the Intellivision and ColecoVision, the Super 8 and Tristar 64, or for that matter the Super Game Boy, but those were all ways to support other existing platforms.

    I thought there was at least one other occasion where a company put out a SGM2-style upgrade that left the base hardware completely idle. Can't think of what it is, though. Coleco, Mattel and Atari all worked on laserdisc units for their consoles at one time or another, so maybe that's what I'm thinking of...

  11. #251
    End of line.. Hero of Algol gamevet's Avatar
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    Super 8 has NES hardware (I think it does?) inside and a pass through for Super Famicom games. I've only used it to play NES games on my SNES.


    Speaking of hardware add-ons. 3DO had the M2 and there were rumors of an add-on for the Saturn that would give it enough horsepower to run VF3.
    Last edited by gamevet; 01-24-2020 at 10:06 PM.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



  12. #252
    I DON'T LIKE POKEMON Hero of Algol j_factor's Avatar
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    The 3DO Blaster ISA card contains an entire 3DO, and your PC is essentially acting as a pass-through. Though, it did also offer an option to run the 3DO in a window, which involves running a program in Windows 3.1, but even then what you see inside the window is entirely created by the 3DO hardware, and the program resizes it. If you didn't use Windows, you'd launch it from DOS and the 3DO hardware essentially takes over. It doesn't have a separate power supply, and it can use the same CD-ROM drive, but the rest of your PC's hardware isn't really doing anything. However, IIRC you can't have your machine power on "as a 3DO", you must boot up your computer and launch it from the OS, which has to be Windows or DOS. (Okay, or OS/2.)


    You just can't handle my jawusumness responces.

  13. #253
    Raging in the Streets Sik's Avatar
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    It also only works with specific CD drives (Panasonic ones I think), so even that was limited. Though at least it could be used as a normal drive too.

  14. #254
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingSports Talker
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    @Goldenbond

    Oh, the SGM2. Well, Nintendo added CPUs and other chips to their carts, so why not?
    It's way beyond just an addon cpu (by which that addon cpu is like 5x the processing power the coleco btw). The SA-1 and DSPs were within reason on the SNES, and didn't take over the system. This SGM2 has whole new complete video and sound hardware (32000 colors, two BGs, 64 large spites, FM, ADPCM, etc). It doesn't need the coleco for anything other than gamepads. It's like 2 generations ahead of what the coleco already is. That's putting a PS2 on a snes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by turboxray View Post
    It's way beyond just an addon cpu (by which that addon cpu is like 5x the processing power the coleco btw). The SA-1 and DSPs were within reason on the SNES, and didn't take over the system. This SGM2 has whole new complete video and sound hardware (32000 colors, two BGs, 64 large spites, FM, ADPCM, etc). It doesn't need the coleco for anything other than gamepads. It's like 2 generations ahead of what the coleco already is. That's putting a PS2 on a snes.
    I look at it kind of like going from the SMS to the Genesis to the 32X, there's still the base hardware in there somewhere but it's no longer needed for much.

    Either way I think it's cool, it's like having a "new" 4th gen console.

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