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Thread: Was the N64 strategy the best way for Sega to return to the market? (Hypothetically)

  1. #76
    Underground Sega Nut BonusKun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post

    It's sad to see how well Capcom have used Monster Hunter
    Those two games aren't even close to each other.
    05/05/15

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    Hey, Armored Core ripped off....Virtual On! They have mechs, therefore, the same.





















    /s

    Life!? ... What console is that on?



    [PSN] Segata-S //[Switch] FC-SW 3892 5228 2895 //[XBL]Dogi99


  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades View Post
    To be fair, the golden age for Sonic has come and gone. Now the games appear much less frequently and frankly don't have the same effort put into them. 1998-2011 were the best years, with a fun new game almost ever year.
    I already read another users saying that the age of games like Sonic and Mario are gone, I disagree, at E3 a simple Banjo announcement on Smash Bros left the euphoric audience, I saw many xbox guys dreaming about a new Conker game, Mario Odyssey is selling over 15M. So, there is room in the industry for a new Sonic game with potential to be system seller, yes if Sega returns, its flagship would be Sonic and Yakuza for sure. I can see up to 5M early adopter just because of the SEGA name and 10M more buying the console for new Sonic and new Yakuza, totaling 15M in less than 2 years.

    by the way the topic has gone on I see that users think it will be Sega against everyone, that's not how it works, a new Sega console would have for example RECV Remake, would have strong SNK partnership, Taito (although Square is the dona) Finally, all the companies that over the years have been associated with the SEGA brand. in other hand wouldn't have support from EA which is a historic enemy of Sega, wouldn't have support from Rockstar by lobbying with Sony.
    Last edited by SegaAMD; 10-16-2019 at 10:52 PM.

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    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BonusKun View Post
    Those two games aren't even close to each other.
    In the making of Monster Hunter on the PS2 Capcom highlighted PSO as their inspiration. Both were very much 3D dungeon crawlers. Capcom has taken the IP series to epic hights, in contrast to what SEGA done with PSO
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  5. #80
    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SegataS View Post
    And the systems Sonic sells best on....are Nintendo systems. .
    I think last gen Sonic sold better on the 360 and you can go on about how Wonderful Yakuza is ,but each new entry barley sells a million copies , Judgment is not even close to selling a million copies . Capcom have far more IP that's sold multi million copies this and last gen.

    That's not a dig at SEGA just simply being factual
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
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  6. #81
    The Future Is Yesterday Hedgehog-in-TrainingRaging in the Streets SegataS's Avatar
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    You act like if something doesn't sell 1 million copies it's a failure. IS was about to cancel the Fire Emblem series and make awakening it's the final game. They only needed 250K to consider it a success to make a sequel. There is no blanket metric. SEGA obviously sees them as successful. Why they keep releasing them on PS4. Even physical with all of them. So not only do they see them as successful enough to release in the west but also on the disc. In the broad sense yeah other stuff sold more but some of that stuff has wider appeal and much bigger budgets.

    I don't recall SEGA ever boasting Sonic on 360 sales. They were on Nintendo systems but they were not happy with Madworld or House of the Dead Overkill sales at all. I mean they released more for them. From DS to Wii the must have been a dozen of them. Wii U is where sales fell apart but it's Wii U. Tho sales on Wii and DS I believe led to the deal to have some exclusive Sonic games on Wii U. Also just for quota. LOL SONIC BOOM...ROFL! Makes Sonic 06 look like Sonic 2 on Genesis.

    Life!? ... What console is that on?



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    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SegaAMD View Post
    I already read another users saying that the age of games like Sonic and Mario are gone, I disagree, at E3 a simple Banjo announcement on Smash Bros left the euphoric audience, I saw many xbox guys dreaming about a new Conker game, Mario Odyssey is selling over 15M. So, there is room in the industry for a new Sonic game with potential to be system seller, yes if Sega returns, its flagship would be Sonic and Yakuza for sure. I can see up to 5M early adopter just because of the SEGA name and 10M more buying the console for new Sonic and new Yakuza, totaling 15M in less than 2 years.
    Mario sells better, usually helped by the Mario games being better . Given that each new entry in the Yakuza series, can barley push past 1 million copies on some of the best selling consoles of all time, I highly doubt they'll sell so many more million copies on SEGA own system . I fail to see to see what SNK could bring a SEGA console when SNKs games sales these days are hardly game changers .

    SEGA needs to get some AAA multi million selling brands behind it, before it could even think of making it's own console again.
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
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  8. #83
    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SegataS View Post
    You act like if something doesn't sell 1 million copies it's a failure.
    I'll have to remember that the next time you bring up the sales with the Xbox One . To over look that , what I said is that SEGA hasn't got many big selling games , you know IP with enough demand that would make millions of consumers buy your console just to play those games.

    I'm sure if you read back through SEGA Sammy official reports Sonic main 3D entries on the 360 sold the best, but it's a long time ago now so could be wrong.
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
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    Presented for your pleasure

  9. #84
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingWildside Expert Virtua Hunter's Avatar
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    I remember at time Sonic sold better on 360 (sonic 06 in particular).

    The false myth of "Sonic sold better on Nintendo" that unfortunately was carried on by Sega PRs (Aaron Webber to name one) came from Gamecube and GBA days, when Sonic was exclusive (of course it sell better on Nintendo, it's not available anywhere else...).

    The only case where it was valid in the past generation was for Sonic Colors (guess what another Nintendo exclusive).

    In reality Sonic fanbase was evenly split between the various consoles, and it varies depending on the game, for example games like Sonic Heroes sold way better (probably twice the amount) on PS2 than Gamecube (so much for Nintendosonic).
    So the "Sonic home is on Nintendo" is a silly argument carried on by nintendo fanboys, Sega PR included.

    That said, Nintendo only harmed Sonic since the Wii:

    -Sonic 06 was a mess mainly because Sonic team was splitted in half to work on Secret Ring on Wii, because that junk hardware couldn't handle a simple port of 06.

    -Sonic Colors success made big changes to Sonic franchise, made it more similar to a Nintendo style franchise, with stupid artistic style, silly kindergarden stories, focus on 2D gameplay and gimmicks like Mario etc.

    -Nintendosonic myth created the WiiU exclusives Sonic Boom Rise of Lyric and Sonic Lost World

    -Sonic Boom was a disaster that destroyed all the good things that Sonic team made with Unleashed and Generations, bringing the franchise to a new low (Sonic 06 was a total success in comparison)

    -Sonic Lost World killed for good the Sonic style makin Sonic Team the joke that is now (Sonic Team lost all the major workforce, that now works guess what, at Nintendo on games like Mario Odyssey and Zelda BOTW), it also make Sonic a low budget franchise.
    Sonic Forces suffered because of this, with interns working on key roles.

    Sonic (and Sega) should stay away from Nintendo.
    Last edited by Virtua Hunter; 10-17-2019 at 08:07 AM.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    Mario sells better, usually helped by the Mario games being better . Given that each new entry in the Yakuza series, can barley push past 1 million copies on some of the best selling consoles of all time, I highly doubt they'll sell so many more million copies on SEGA own system .

    SEGA needs to get some AAA multi million selling brands behind it, before it could even think of making it's own console again.
    Having an own system helps a lot, The Order 1886 sold about 2M, if it were a multplat game would sell less, In short, game that is multplat needs to continue multplat, exclusive game must remain exclusive, to maintain relevance.

    GTA, exclusive less sales.
    Mario, Multplat less sales.

    Xbox sells well and has no expressive game, Halo is a more powerful franchise than all of Sega, but I think Sonic is head to head with Forza, I don't see them doing anything Sega couldn't do better in terms of games.
    ideal for a console is to sell with as little effort as possible, as few games as possible, Mario 64 alone sold a lot N64, Zelda and Mario Odyssey are the reason the Nintendo Switch thrived, one of the reasons DC flopped was to have released many games in short time. There are other reasons as well.

    but we live in a time of creation of idols, singers and politicians come out of nowhere and become sensations, example are the actors of Marvel MCU, Iron Man guy is only that had worldwide fame before and yet, before he was in a bad phase, the others became famous for playing the characters.

    The key point of my comment is that Sega can resurrect Sonic easily or even get a new IP, but this requires investment and global reach, Yakuza is well to say a exclusive of Japan in most games.
    Last edited by SegaAMD; 10-17-2019 at 10:53 AM.

  11. #86
    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SegaAMD View Post
    Having an own system helps a lot, The Order 1886 sold about 2M, if it were a multplat game would sell less, In short game that is multplat needs to continue multplat, exclusive game must remain exclusive, to maintain relevance.
    Sadly not enough for SEGA as the DC showed . Also, I don't agree with you on a multiplatform game. Demon's Souls starts off exclusive, the series goes multi-platform and become a huge franchise. Mass Effect starts life as an Xbox exclusive it goes multi platform and sells millions, Guitar Hero starts off as PS 2 exclusive goes multi and became a huge selling IP and there are loads more examples

    Zelda and Mario Odyssey are the reason the Nintendo Swicht thrived,
    Or it could be Nintendo has all but given up on supporting the 3DS via software and no longer makes Hardware and now the Switch is the new Nintendo handheld in all but name. That's to look over even on poor-selling Nintendo consoles like the Wii U, Nintendo games selling in millions. Mario Kart 8 shits over 8 million units, Mario 3D world 6 million units. Look at the N64 despite a huge gulf in sales between the N64 and PS, Nintendo games like Goldeneye, Mario 64, Mario Kart 64 sell in huge numbers and better than most PS games


    The KEY point is that before SEGA can even think of making its own console, it needs to get IP of its own that sell million of copies so that consumer will want to pay for a SEGA console to play them on.
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
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    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virtua Hunter View Post
    I remember at time Sonic sold better on 360 (sonic 06 in particular).

    The false myth of "Sonic sold better on Nintendo" that unfortunately was carried on by Sega PRs (Aaron Webber to name one)
    Aaron Webber LOL. I think the myth comes from how well Sonic Adv II sold on the Cube and its gone on from there.

    Sonic 06 was a mess mainly because Sonic team was splitted in half to work on Secret Ring on Wii, because that junk hardware couldn't handle a simple port of 06.
    Sort of true. I used to know a member of SEGA at the time. The real reason why Sonic 06 was in such a mess was that originally Sliver and the use of Havok physics was actually meant to be a new Shinobi game in production at the time, but the team was merged into the Sonic Team and the planned Shinobi gameplay brought into Sonic and the Sliver character created. The Producer of PS2 Shinobi just was out of his depth and couldn't handle such a big project with such a big budget and so many members of staff and while it was clear to all that the Sonic 06 was in huge trouble. The producer didn't fight for the team and SEGA PR had the stupid 15th-anniversary street date to hit

    Sonic Forces suffered because of this, with interns working on key role
    Its a good game, but staff left and the game only had like 2 lead level designers, which hurt the game a lot. Its good mind and the Sonic Team had some talent and a fab game engine. I expect the next Sonic game and their upcoming Sakura Wars game to be very good.


    Sonic Boom was a disaster that destroyed all the good things that Sonic team
    The irony with that game was it did was a lot of people asked. A Sonic 3D game not made by the Sonic Team LOL and it was being made by ex-staff from Naughty Dog ect and the game turned out to be crap.

    Sonic Colors success made big changes to Sonic franchise, made it more similar to a Nintendo style franchise, with stupid artistic style, silly kindergarden stories, focus on 2D gameplay and gimmicks like Mario etc
    Agreed both Sonic Colors and Sonic Unleashed made big changes that made Sonic 3D games back to being really good. Sonic Team aren't that far off getting it really right
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
    one of the best 3D shooting games available
    Presented for your pleasure

  13. #88
    The Future Is Yesterday Hedgehog-in-TrainingRaging in the Streets SegataS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    I'll have to remember that the next time you bring up the sales with the Xbox One . To over look that , what I said is that SEGA hasn't got many big selling games , you know IP with enough demand that would make millions of consumers buy your console just to play those games.

    I'm sure if you read back through SEGA Sammy official reports Sonic main 3D entries on the 360 sold the best, but it's a long time ago now so could be wrong.
    You need to stop being so defensive about your console of choice. It's very much sounding like the thing you love to accuse everyone else of being. Xbox One sales are lagging behind a tablet and PS4. Yes, they may be making money off it. So did Nintendo with Gamecube. It's still a failure because it lost a shit ton of market share. I will say it again. I do not hate Xbox One. I do not dislike it. These are just objective facts. Deal with it.


    FTW the only one I have any disdain for is Stadia.

    Life!? ... What console is that on?



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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    Aaron Webber LOL. I think the myth comes from how well Sonic Adv II sold on the Cube and its gone on from there.
    Of course I said this in the previous post:
    "[the myth] came from Gamecube and GBA days, when Sonic was exclusive"

    Sonic Adventure 2 sold millions but was exclusive, it's like saying "virtua fighter 4 sold better on PS2", of course it's a PS2 exclusive, how can someone make a comparison to say that it sold bad on Xbox?

    Luckly later Sonic games proved that Sonic can sold even better on PS and Xbox console, too bad that some Sega PR still believe that Sonic is a Nintendo affair...


    Sort of true. I used to know a member of SEGA at the time. The real reason why Sonic 06 was in such a mess was that originally Sliver and the use of Havok physics was actually meant to be a new Shinobi game in production at the time, but the team was merged into the Sonic Team and the planned Shinobi gameplay brought into Sonic and the Sliver character created. The Producer of PS2 Shinobi just was out of his depth and couldn't handle such a big project with such a big budget and so many members of staff and while it was clear to all that the Sonic 06 was in huge trouble. The producer didn't fight for the team and SEGA PR had the stupid 15th-anniversary street date to hit
    Never heard about this Shinobi game.
    I knew that the idea and gameplay mechanics for Silver the hedgehog came from Fifth Phantom Saga, a cancelled FPS by the same Sonic Team.


    Its a good game, but staff left and the game only had like 2 lead level designers, which hurt the game a lot. Its good mind and the Sonic Team had some talent and a fab game engine. I expect the next Sonic game and their upcoming Sakura Wars game to be very good.
    That's one of the key role I was referring, level design can't be handled by 2-3 interns, what were they thinking?
    Sonic Team was mismanaged for at least 10 years if not more, they lost so many talents and made lots of mess...

    Currently "Sonic Team" is just a name, the same department include Puyo team, Sakura team, PSO team, probably also Valkyria team, basically everything related to console development that isn't the Ryu Ga Gotoku Studio.

    We can only hope that in future this new arrangement will help also the development of great 3D Sonic games.

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    My two questions for anyone wants a new Sega console:

    1) What do you expect Sega to do that other companies aren't currently doing?
    2) Why would it be better to do that on original hardware rather than any of the three current consoles or smartphones?

    They need a lot more than "new Sonic games" and reviving old IPs to make this work. Why should third parties support yet another console?

    Otherwise I'd rather see Sega put their efforts into making software for the platforms we already have.

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