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Thread: Politics. It's always politics

  1. #466
    Antifwhaaa?!?!!? Master of Shinobi Crystalpepsifan's Avatar
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    If they didn't convict the officer who killed Philando Castile there's no way these officers see any jail time. Hopefully they never get to be cops anywhere else.
    ....

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    AKA Mister Xiado Master of Shinobi Raijin Z's Avatar
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    When my city's budgeting fell apart due to many major industries failing and moving out (mostly steel and copper), for a time, there was only enough money to have three police officers on duty at any given moment. The local news in the crime-pit that is the adjacent population center full of dead steel mills, thought it would be cute to announce this fact. Then all of that city's criminals raided my city (but not where the gun owners lived). Now the west side is ghost town. Among the businesses that decided that being robbed almost daily wasn't worth the effort of maintaining business: McDonald's, Burger King, Dollar General, Family Dollar, two different banks, at least a half dozen locally-owned beauty supply shops, four car repair shops, two gas stations, a gun shop, Dairy Queen, AND KENTUCKY FRIED CHICKEN. How badly do you have to fuck up to make KFC leave a predominantly "ethnic" part of town?

    Yes, "fug the puhleez". It's good for everyone when they're not present, surely. Without them, we won't have pesky crime statistics that underline inconvenient numbers.
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    Blast processor Melf's Avatar
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    The list of cops who used excessive force and even killed people and had no consequences is immense. And the sheer amount of video evidence in many of these cases proves that it's not "emotion" that's caused these protests; its case after case happening without any consequence to the cops involved. Did you see the video of those 4 cops kneeling on Floyd for almost 9 minutes? That's not emotion, that's video evidence. You can't ignore that and eyewitness testimony and then say that there's no systemic problem. It's not moving the goalposts; it's people pissed off at this happening all over. People aren't staging mass protests in all 50 states, DC, and even foreign countries because they're over-emotional or because of a string of unrelated, isolated events. They're doing it because the problem is systemic. Hell, there's been plenty of video of cops being abusive against people PROTESTING police abuse. It's a national problem, and change isn't going to happen peacefully. The same thing happened with civil rights. You don't get these kinds of changes by asking nicely.

  4. #469

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    Quote Originally Posted by Melf View Post
    The list of cops who used excessive force and even killed people and had no consequences is immense. And the sheer amount of video evidence in many of these cases proves that it's not "emotion" that's caused these protests; its case after case happening without any consequence to the cops involved. Did you see the video of those 4 cops kneeling on Floyd for almost 9 minutes? That's not emotion, that's video evidence. You can't ignore that and eyewitness testimony and then say that there's no systemic problem. It's not moving the goalposts; it's people pissed off at this happening all over. People aren't staging mass protests in all 50 states, DC, and even foreign countries because they're over-emotional or because of a string of unrelated, isolated events. They're doing it because the problem is systemic. Hell, there's been plenty of video of cops being abusive against people PROTESTING police abuse. It's a national problem, and change isn't going to happen peacefully. The same thing happened with civil rights. You don't get these kinds of changes by asking nicely.
    And how many of the people killed were criminals vs innocents? You're also cherry picking in what you want to believe in because you're forgetting there are also peaceful protests where cops and protesters are uniting and believing in needing change because of the stereotypes surrounding them. There are lots of local protest organizations. They exist.

    Yes, there needs to be change, but we can't blame it on one side fully. Everyone needs to be all in on change. Otherwise, no one will remember this type of stuff in a month, forget about until another incident happens. Rinse and repeat.
    Last edited by sull56ivan2010; 06-05-2020 at 04:27 PM.

  5. #470
    I DON'T LIKE POKEMON Hero of Algol j_factor's Avatar
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    I was going to make a long post about events in Austin and LA, but fuck it. Here's an article about a guy the Austin PD shot in the head and here's the video showing police firing on people carrying his unconscious body seeking medical attention.

    This shows a cop in LA literally committing a hit and run, and this shows another LA cop doing a drive-by. Totally normal police tactics. Here's an article about some of the stuff going down in LA, though it's incomplete. LA cops are known for being particularly egregious.

    I'm out for a while but I'll just leave you with this very long Twitter thread. This man has been painstakingly compiling incidents from across the country. Currently at over 300 entries. Decide for yourself how many of these are justified.


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    Antifwhaaa?!?!!? Master of Shinobi Crystalpepsifan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sull56ivan2010 View Post
    And how many of the people killed were criminals vs innocents?
    So petty crime is deserving of summary execution? Bloody brilliant!
    ....

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    I DON'T LIKE POKEMON Hero of Algol j_factor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sull56ivan2010 View Post
    Do you want to be level headed or not?
    You basically said, the cops are just like the blacks, they're not all bad. That is not level headed, that is fucking psycho and you're insane if you expect people to consider that a banal statement.


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  8. #473

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crystalpepsifan View Post
    So petty crime is deserving of summary execution? Bloody brilliant!
    That's not what I said.

  9. #474
    Master of Shinobi JCU's Avatar
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    Burning down and destroying business in your town is not an emotional response? Rioting two days after the man's death is, w/o a doubt, textbook emotion.

  10. #475
    Blast processor Melf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sull56ivan2010 View Post
    And how many of the people killed were criminals vs innocents? You're also cherry picking in what you want to believe in because you're forgetting there are also peaceful protests where cops and protesters are uniting and believing in needing change because of the stereotypes surrounding them. There are lots of local protest organizations. They exist.
    Exactly, there are mutiple local organizations, not a unified state or national one. There is no grand committee or hierarchy giving orders or directing the protests nationwide. And I'm quite aware that there are lots of peaceful protests. That's what I'm saying. There are always going to be people taking advantage of a situation to incite violence, but that is not the majority of people protesting, and in many places the violence happened only after police began hitting people and using tear gas.

    Yes, there needs to be change, but we can't blame it on one side fully. Everyone needs to be all in on change. Otherwise, no one will remember this type of stuff in a month, forget about until another incident happens. Rinse and repeat.
    Right, but you can't hold groups of random people to the same standard as the police because one is a government-mandated entity with immense firepower and the power to arrest and incarcerate. The other is just random citizens. Both need to follow the law and be brought to justice if they break it, but police need to be held to a higher standard than the average person because they've been specifically trained to uphold the law and to know what to do in this kind of situation. Every one of them knows how much force is too much, and they all know procedures and protocols for dealing with this kind of situation. A random group of protesters doesn't. Basically, people shouldn't be dicks and should follow the law, but that should go double for those who are trained and paid to enforce the law.

    Quote Originally Posted by JCU View Post
    Burning down and destroying business in your town is not an emotional response? Rioting two days after the man's death is, w/o a doubt, textbook emotion.
    Not everyone was burning things down or destroying businesses. In fact, the majority weren't. You're judging all the protesters based on the actions of a few assholes in a mass crowd of random people, but for some reason you don't want to hold a standard to uniformed cops simply watching as their colleagues break the law and violate the rules they were specifically trained to uphold.

    Also, I'm not more pissed at broken windows than the murder of a unarmed, subdued man at the hands of 4 cops.

  11. #476
    Antifwhaaa?!?!!? Master of Shinobi Crystalpepsifan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sull56ivan2010 View Post
    That's not what I said.
    Kinda seems like it is.
    ....

  12. #477
    AKA Mister Xiado Master of Shinobi Raijin Z's Avatar
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    "The majority of people who have taken to the streets have not engaged in destructive behavior, so do not judge all by actions of the few. Also, the totality of the hundreds of thousands of American police officers are kill-crazed race warriors."
    "I'm not going to take what you said at face value and break it down like a rational person, but instead I shall go to extremes to insinuate that you are a base villain."

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  13. #478
    Master of Shinobi JCU's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melf View Post
    Not everyone was burning things down or destroying businesses. In fact, the majority weren't. You're judging all the protesters based on the actions of a few assholes in a mass crowd of random people, but for some reason you don't want to hold a standard to uniformed cops simply watching as their colleagues break the law and violate the rules they were specifically trained to uphold.

    Also, I'm not more pissed at broken windows than the murder of a unarmed, subdued man at the hands of 4 cops.
    Quite the number of people did damage totaling over 50 million dollars just in Minneapolis alone. Should we discuss destruction in other places? The police are charged yet the emotional responses are still happening and as a matter of fact we've seen a number of police lose their jobs in the past week or so for acting outside the scope of their authority. One does not need to find an equivalency in degree of being pissed. A guy is dead and thugs decided to take and destroy from others what wasn't there's. There isn't room for excusing other action.

  14. #479
    Blast processor Melf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raijin Z View Post
    "The majority of people who have taken to the streets have not engaged in destructive behavior, so do not judge all by actions of the few. Also, the totality of the hundreds of thousands of American police officers are kill-crazed race warriors."
    "I'm not going to take what you said at face value and break it down like a rational person, but instead I shall go to extremes to insinuate that you are a base villain."

    I understand. I like onion rings, but I don't like onions.
    Yeah, that's not what I said at all. Way to miss the point.

    Quote Originally Posted by JCU View Post
    Quite the number of people did damage totaling over 50 million dollars just in Minneapolis alone. Should we discuss destruction in other places?
    Have people been arrested for that destruction? Have charges been brought? Did police have to protest nationwide for that to happen? If not, then that's the difference. You break the law, you should pay the consequence. Yet for some reason, that standard doesn't seem to apply to cops nationwide. Minneapolis alone had a record high in police abuse in 2018, so may be that's not a great example to use to make your point. Interestingly, 57 "good cops" resigned after two Buffalo cops were suspended for pushing a 75-year-old man to the ground and walking away while he bled from the head. According to them, they were simply "following orders." Where have I heard that before...?

    Also, protests occurred in all 50 states and DC. The destruction has not been on a mass scale nationwide, and it hasn't even been entirely been by protesters. Even the governor of Minnesota and the NYPD acknowledge that there were people not related to the movement using it as an excuse.

    The police are charged yet the emotional responses are still happening and as a matter of fact we've seen a number of police lose their jobs in the past week or so for acting outside the scope of their authority. One does not need to find an equivalency in degree of being pissed. A guy is dead and thugs decided to take and destroy from others what wasn't there's. There isn't room for excusing other action.
    Thank you for making my point. It's not mere coincidence that these cops were only charged AFTER the protests started. Minneapolis has also prohibited cops from using strangleholds and chokeholds. Again, you don't get change like that by asking nicely. Just read about the Voting Rights Act of 1965. It wouldn't have ever happened without the protests of the first half of that decade.

    I don't condone the violence or looting, but there is definitely a problem with the way cops are responding and how they get away with it, and it's a national problem.
    Last edited by Melf; 06-05-2020 at 07:10 PM.

  15. #480
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCU View Post
    Should we discuss destruction in other places?
    Actually, what we should be having a discussion about is systemic racism in America. We're loooong over due. Sweeping it under the rug, and pretending it doesn't exist, has resulted in what we're seeing now - and the black community has taken the brunt of this action. Police brutality and practices to the black community is the snapping point, but it is not the whole discussion or problem. If what bothers you is property damage, to the point where you're prioritizing and focusing on it.. congrats, you're incapable of seeing the real issues here. That means you're pretty much part of the reason why police, and authority in general, were allowed to carry out systemic racism and related bigoted practices (including violence, profiling, etc). "White fragility" is a helluva thing.


    I was watching some videos of James Baldwin the other day (through out the past decades).. and came across the misc comment, "Ghosts of the past.. taking about the present".

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