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Thread: A 6th gen console with specs lower than the Dreamcast's

  1. #31
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    I believe my post is within the theme, it all started when I proposed that an intermediate between DC-N64 would be a fifth generation console, because it would be possible to convert to N64 with downgrade, since Dreamcast has a lot of power, and there is no how to convert a game from DC to n64. shenmue, crazy taxi, doa2.

    Then I said that the sixth generation multiplatforms reached very high levels, that even Dreamcast itself would have difficulty handling. what would leave the intermediate console without the game. when I say sixth gen multplat I mean the games that came out for xbox-PS2 and GC like F1 2001, ty, Dead to Rights, Hitaman 2, Blood omen 2, baldurs gate, 007 nightfire, games like capcom vs snk2/EO, i'm not considering, just Gamecube and xbox shared games.

    So the user cited Grandia 2, which made me bring the memory of Sega-16 that PS2 is a very powerful console and the numbers I posted show that.

    but I suspect you are imagining a DC-N64 intermediate console in terms of PPS but with effects similar to GC and Xbox. few polygons but with a good AA, with shader, blur, bloom, and such features wouldn't make it intermediate console but a very powerful hardware, not possible too.
    Last edited by SegaAMD; 11-04-2019 at 10:39 PM.

  2. #32
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    Nuon had crap games but the specs are not worse than the DC, 32 MB RAM, a DVD drive, support for a hard drive and a quad core CPU.

    Come to think of it, with the Atari connection, the Nuon is perhaps the closest we ever saw to a Jaguar 2.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SegaAMD View Post

    Life!? ... What console is that on?



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    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post
    Well the reason people focus so much on polygons in this generation, is because it was before the law of diminishing returns started taking effect. Like you won't notice a difference with a PS4 game running at 700 million PPS or 900 million PPS(yes those are realistic PS4 numbers), but you will notice a difference between a Dreamcast game running at 700,000 PPS or 900,000 PPS.
    No, I also mean if one just look at only Dreamcast games. There are some DC games that are pushing a ton of polygons and yet look less impressive than those pushing over half the number. Look at trigger heart it's pushing some of the biggest amounts of polygons on the DC and to me it doesn't look half as good as other DC shooter pushing far less. To me, Code Veronica is one of the best looking games on the DC, yet there are games pushing far more polygons
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    Quote Originally Posted by SegataS View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SegaAMD View Post
    I really appreciate this. I finally gotta accept that the guy can't have unbiased debates. He posts a lot of other useful stuff, but when it comes to debating consoles he just can't take an unbiased approach.

    Like I grew up with only a PS2 and think it fully deserved to win that generation, but in terms of hardware I think its absolutely overrated. The hardware is what you'd expect from a console released in early 2000, meaning its a lot more powerful than the Dreamcast which came out in late 1998, but also a lot less powerful than the Gamecube and OG Xbox which came out in late 2001.
    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    No, I also mean if one just look at only Dreamcast games. There are some DC games that are pushing a ton of polygons and yet look less impressive than those pushing over half the number. Look at trigger heart it's pushing some of the biggest amounts of polygons on the DC and to me it doesn't look half as good as other DC shooter pushing far less. To me, Code Veronica is one of the best looking games on the DC, yet there are games pushing far more polygons
    But which shoot-em-ups are you thinking of? I can tell you the polycounts of them and they won't be much less than Triggerheart.

    Like you aren't gonna think Trizeal is the best looking shoot-em-up, and theres a reason for that(game runs at 500,000 PPS). Polycounts matter. Yes there can be some variation like you described, but a game running at 500,000 PPS usually isn't gonna look better than a game running at 2 million PPS.
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by SegataS View Post
    Hahaha what, is that a mockup or an actual game?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post
    But which shoot-em-ups are you thinking of? I can tell you the polycounts of them and they won't be much less than Triggerheart.

    Like you aren't gonna think Trizeal is the best looking shoot-em-up, and theres a reason for that(game runs at 500,000 PPS). Polycounts matter. Yes there can be some variation like you described, but a game running at 500,000 PPS usually isn't gonna look better than a game running at 2 million PPS.
    iirc Under Defeat would be a good candidate since it has a ludicrous amount of particles; when it came out, the local gaming mags said that it looks better than Gradius V (which was the most epic shmup at that time both in graphics and length, it also ran in 480p if I remember right).

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    Nope. It's a real game on 3DS. Project X Zone 2. Developed by Nintendo's Monolith soft. It has Namco/SEGA/Capcom characters in an SRPG. Only 2 in the series but a spiritual successor to Namco X Capcom.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post
    I really appreciate this. I finally gotta accept that the guy can't have unbiased debates. He posts a lot of other useful stuff, but when it comes to debating consoles he just can't take an unbiased approach.

    Like I grew up with only a PS2 and think it fully deserved to win that generation, but in terms of hardware I think its absolutely overrated. The hardware is what you'd expect from a console released in early 2000, meaning its a lot more powerful than the Dreamcast which came out in late 1998, but also a lot less powerful than the Gamecube and OG Xbox which came out in late 2001.
    Outta reps but would if I could. Also not just a pure raw power thing. Every console had a weakness and strength. It was the last generation where each console was fully custom.

    Life!? ... What console is that on?



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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by SegataS View Post
    Nuon? Tho it's 2000 but I remember seeing it in magazines in the late 90s and I think the final specs were kinda down there. Don't remember what they were but I don't remember them being all that great except maybe more ram than DC. Hard to say as I am not even sure anyone released for it tested it. I think I remember hearing it had a good version of tempest. Some future game Freefall and Iron something 3. It's been fucking forever since I looked at anything Nuon but I recall it being lower spec than DC but better than PS1.
    I was researching the system. The specs are just too different from traditional console hardware, its the same situation as the Model 3. The specs are like a high-end PC thats using integrated graphics. Also the console has less charisma than even the Jaguar.



    Quote Originally Posted by SegaAMD View Post
    I believe my post is within the theme, it all started when I proposed that an intermediate between DC-N64 would be a fifth generation console, because it would be possible to convert to N64 with downgrade, since Dreamcast has a lot of power, and there is no how to convert a game from DC to n64. shenmue, crazy taxi, doa2.
    Yes Shenmue, its true because of disc space. But you could get Crazy Taxi and Dead or Alive 2 on N64. They will look a lot different but I feel it could be possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by SegaAMD View Post
    Then I said that the sixth generation multiplatforms reached very high levels, that even Dreamcast itself would have difficulty handling. what would leave the intermediate console without the game. when I say sixth gen multplat I mean the games that came out for xbox-PS2 and GC like F1 2001, ty, Dead to Rights, Hitaman 2, Blood omen 2, baldurs gate, 007 nightfire, games like capcom vs snk2/EO, i'm not considering, just Gamecube and xbox shared games.
    First off, I will say this console wouldn't be able to handle a straight port of Dead or Alive 2 which is a Dreamcast/PS2 multiplat.

    But this console would only be relevant during the early 6th gen. It would be dead shortly after GameCube and OG Xbox were released. So think of 6th gen multiplats that came out in 1999-2002. Theres tons of multiplats during those years that wouldn't even be maxing out the Dreamcast. Those would be suitable for this console.

    To put it into perspective, this console would be like the Jaguar. The Jaguar is a very early 5th gen console, but its still a 5th gen console no doubt.

    Quote Originally Posted by SegaAMD View Post
    but I suspect you are imagining a DC-N64 intermediate console in terms of PPS but with effects similar to GC and Xbox. few polygons but with a good AA, with shader, blur, bloom, and such features wouldn't make it intermediate console but a very powerful hardware, not possible too.
    No way. No one was using bloom and motion blur in the late 90s, so that stuff is off the charts for this console.

    "I suspect you are imagining a DC-N64 intermediate console in terms of PPS" yes but much closer to the Dreamcast. Think 1 million PPS, maybe 2:1 texture compression, 500 MB bandwidth, 800 Mflops, 38 audio channels, CD storage, etc. specs like these are a bit below the Dreamcast but still a huge leap over the PS1/Saturn/N64.

    SegaAMD I found an arcade board that will really put us on the same page in terms of thinking of this very early 6th gen console.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zyrobs View Post
    iirc Under Defeat would be a good candidate since it has a ludicrous amount of particles; when it came out, the local gaming mags said that it looks better than Gradius V (which was the most epic shmup at that time both in graphics and length, it also ran in 480p if I remember right).
    Well this is embarrassing, Under Defeat is the one shoot-em-up I haven't spent much time with. I think it hovers around 1.6 million PPS.

    Quote Originally Posted by SegataS View Post
    Outta reps but would if I could. Also not just a pure raw power thing. Every console had a weakness and strength. It was the last generation where each console was fully custom.
    Yes I was planning to mention this soon, when comparing the Dreamcast to the PS2 you gotta keep in mind this is when consoles were still very different from each other. Its not like the PS3 and 360 where they both got essentially the same hardware but the PS3 has higher specs in a few isolated areas.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post
    SegaAMD I found an arcade board that will really put us on the same page in terms of thinking of this very early 6th gen console.
    Oh, that's good!
    Last edited by SegaAMD; 11-05-2019 at 09:27 PM.

  13. #43
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    Playstation 2 shows no weakness against DC honestly i don't know, and only loses to Xbox in that generation
    for more details see ps2 vs DC/PS2 vs GCN thread.

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    Starting to become convinced this is an act.

    Life!? ... What console is that on?



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  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post
    But which shoot-em-ups are you thinking of? I can tell you the polycounts of them and they won't be much less than Triggerheart.
    Honestly, I think Choas Field, Ikaruga look better. I don't think you're being fair at all with Trizeal that after all was the work of one member of staff trying his best to keep his company going. Like I said there are many games that push more polygons than the likes of Virtual Stiker or Code Veronica on the DC, but to me VS is most prob the best looking DC sports game and CV just overall the best looking DC game.

    It's not just about out and out polygons, its also about the quality of the texture mapping, lighting and various effects. Hence why to me and still to this day I think Virtual ON II is still one of the best looking DC games
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