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Thread: What the Saturn can exactly do that the Playstation cannot?

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Da_Shocker View Post
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    Reading this it seems like the Saturn had so many flaws that could've been fixed maybe. The issue with the fast and slow ram seems a bit mind boggling but I assume they did this to cut costs. How much are these flaws related strictly to costs and how many are related to just bad r&d is what I would like to know.
    The Saturn hardware makes a lot more sense if you consider it before they started gluing stuff to it. Consider: 1 main cpu, 2x VDPs (sprite and backgrounds), 1x sound cpu+synth, the SCU to keep everything connected, and a connector for a CD addon. Would've only had 6-7 custom chips, which is not significantly more than what other consoles had at launch. It's basically a souped up SNES, and it probably still could've run VF and VF Remix largely the same.

    But then they decide to
    - keep the CD logic built in (two very large chips and 512k more ram is added)
    - upgrade the CPU to 2x SH2 (second main CPU is added, plus a watchdog chip that glues them together)
    - add more main memory (1M 16bit memory glued onto the watchdog IC)

    and now you have almost twice the custom ASICs, and the main cpu + main memory is in a Quasimodo setup.

    The problems with the VDP1 are much stupider though, and can be attributed simply to them not knowing how to do 3d graphics (they admitted as such). And also the chip being extremely underpowered. If it was faster, then it could've gotten away even with the crappy feature set, but it wasn't.

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    Hero of Algol TrekkiesUnite118's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zyrobs View Post

    The problems with the VDP1 are much stupider though, and can be attributed simply to them not knowing how to do 3d graphics (they admitted as such). And also the chip being extremely underpowered. If it was faster, then it could've gotten away even with the crappy feature set, but it wasn't.
    What's interesting though is the guy working on this is saying he's being held back not by VDP1 fillrate, but by the CPUs:




  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118 View Post
    What's interesting though is the guy working on this is saying he's being held back not by VDP1 fillrate, but by the CPUs:
    I can imagine a lot of CPU being burnt up when he does 4 player split screen, or has 10+ polygonal enemies on screen at the same time, not to mention all that lightning, and having large open maps.

    But I remember him mentioning that on emulators that don't have the VDP1 speed capped, he gets solid 60fps versus 15-20fps on the real hardware.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zyrobs View Post

    But I remember him mentioning that on emulators that don't have the VDP1 speed capped, he gets solid 60fps versus 15-20fps on the real hardware.
    I think that's more that the emulators just run too fast in general. He's pointed out numerous times that what slows him down is more the CPU not VDP1, and that if he optimized his code a bit more he could probably get a solid 30fps in most cases.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zyrobs View Post
    And also the chip being extremely underpowered. If it was faster, then it could've gotten away even with the crappy feature set, but it wasn't.
    Sarah Avoy said on Twitter she found a way to actually increase the speed of the VDP1 while working on Fighting Force over the SEGA toolset?. Saturn 3D was very decent I think the issues were in other area's of the system with poor tools, no hardware compression for sound and divisions tasked with making games for a variety of systems, while SEGA's rivals were focused on one and also had tons more cash.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    Sarah Avoy said on Twitter she found a way to actually increase the speed of the VDP1 while working on Fighting Force over the SEGA toolset?. Saturn 3D was very decent I think the issues were in other area's of the system with poor tools, no hardware compression for sound and divisions tasked with making games for a variety of systems, while SEGA's rivals were focused on one and also had tons more cash.
    Do you have a source on that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by zyrobs View Post
    Do you have a source on that?
    She 1st elaborated on it in EDGE and then went into more detail in response to a comment to either Twitter or YouTube (I can't remember which) on how she was able to push the VDP1 more than the SEGA tools
    Here's the EDGE part anyway....

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    Quote Originally Posted by zyrobs View Post
    Do you have a source on that?
    To be honest it kind of does line up with what I've heard from homebrew devs. Apparently SGL (at least the versions we have available) really isn't that optimized for 3D. It's very wasteful with memory and it does a lot of wasteful stuff that can cause problems with 3D performance. A few homebrew devs have either hacked SGL to work differently for their needs, gotten rid of it completely with their own code, done hacks to basically work around it, or all of the above.

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