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Thread: What the Saturn can exactly do that the Playstation cannot?

  1. #76
    Master of Shinobi
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    The summon spells in SF3 are indeed very impressive.

  2. #77
    Raging in the Streets Blades's Avatar
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    I would argue Panzer Dragoon Saga is the most technically impressive Saturn game. A little bit of chugging, but full 3D environments, great effects, great score, and huge environments.

    Sonic R is good but has pretty huge pop in and is kind of plain-looking. Not to take away from it, but Saga is better IMO.

    I doubt Saga would've been possible on a PS1, mostly because of VDP2 helping out with the planes and effects.

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    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
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    Its silly to say the PS couldn't handle a Saturn game or that a Saturn couldn't handle a PS game, it's more, what would be lost in the porting.

    Without getting all silly and flambaiting. I would say the few Saturn games that the PS would really have a hard time with would be Guardian Heroes, Radiant Silvergun, Astra Superstars given heavy use of VDP2
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  4. #79
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    What makes Sonic R so great is that they could do the background fading, light sourcing, and doing sporadic polygon transparency all at the same time. This requires using two separate render paths at the same time. Very complex stuff.

    Saga is great, but note that some of the indoor areas, which are notably more complex, have a fixed camera. This can cut down on processing a lot since they can pre-calculate things like polygon sorting in advance. Crash Bandicoot could do so good graphics for its time because the entire game ran on a fixed path, and they were streaming from disc the pre-calculated polygon sorting for each camera instance.

    And Saga is one game that would've benefited immensely from Sonic R style fading, since so many levels had polygon areas that were directly flowing into the background (the desert area comes to mind). If it had that fading, I'd say it is by far the best looking Saturn game. Without that, it's just one of the best.

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    I maybe would add a little more ...

    I sure I read in a Japanese mag interview that Battle Garegga port was tried on the PS but the team gave up. Even while the game was entirely possible I guess those infinte VDP2 planes on some of Zwei levels would lose out on the PS, as would EP2 VDP2 water effects (If Grandia is anything to go on). I woudn't like to see Last Bronx amazing VDP2 backround and underground VDP2 layers emulated on the PS, nor would I like to see Cotton 2 emu on the PS, in just the same way, I wouldn't like to see the Saturn try and emu MGS
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
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  6. #81
    Raging in the Streets bultje112's Avatar
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    if you like the graphics of shining force 3 then check scenario 3. they improved the graphics slightly with each scenario,

  7. #82
    Raging in the Streets Blades's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zyrobs View Post
    What makes Sonic R so great is that they could do the background fading, light sourcing, and doing sporadic polygon transparency all at the same time. This requires using two separate render paths at the same time. Very complex stuff.
    You're right. I forgot how clever Sonic R was. GameHut's videos on the special effects of Sonic R are very interesting, I particularly found the use of the DSP for 3D math very interesting.

    What impressed me about Saga was the animation. The dragon can morph shape and warp, while many objects have fluid and very unique movements and distortions. It was very rare to see back then. There was no RPG like it on PSX. The closest title was Ocarina of Time, which ran on much newer hardware.



    Here at 1:32 is a good example. I also like how the infinite planes were done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades View Post
    What impressed me about Saga was the animation. The dragon can morph shape and warp, while many objects have fluid and very unique movements and distortions. It was very rare to see back then. There was no RPG like it on PSX. The closest title was Ocarina of Time, which ran on much newer hardware.



    Here at 1:32 is a good example. I also like how the infinite planes were done.
    Yep, Saga really was one of the 1st true 3D RPGs . Incredible given the hardware and time it was made . Also Saga was no doubt handling a lot more under the hood, with NPCs Ect.

    The music was stunning too, even more so as most of it was coming off the chip .
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
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    Presented for your pleasure

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades View Post
    You're right. I forgot how clever Sonic R was. GameHut's videos on the special effects of Sonic R are very interesting, I particularly found the use of the DSP for 3D math very interesting.

    What impressed me about Saga was the animation. The dragon can morph shape and warp, while many objects have fluid and very unique movements and distortions. It was very rare to see back then. There was no RPG like it on PSX. The closest title was Ocarina of Time, which ran on much newer hardware.



    Here at 1:32 is a good example. I also like how the infinite planes were done.
    There's a funny anecdote about that morphing dragon shape. Something like that (arbitrary user-set morphing of a 3d mode) was seldom done before in a 3d game, and the programmer said "no way, we can't do this" when asked about the effect. Then the next day he came in saying that he implemented it. It was in one of the interviews about the team.

  10. #85
    Raging in the Streets Blades's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zyrobs View Post
    There's a funny anecdote about that morphing dragon shape. Something like that (arbitrary user-set morphing of a 3d mode) was seldom done before in a 3d game, and the programmer said "no way, we can't do this" when asked about the effect. Then the next day he came in saying that he implemented it. It was in one of the interviews about the team.
    Yes, it was this one and this one.

    It is very interesting how effective PSX's GTE was at transforms compared to the Saturn DSP. Sega's internal design documents suggested using the slave SH2 and DSP in parallel to do polygon transformations and then feed it to VDP1.

    According to Sega's documentation, it's possible to use the SCU DSP for matrix transformation and Sega suggested back in 1995 to use the SCU DSP for the matrix and the SH2 for the polygon processing in parallel.
    When SGL was released, transforms moved completely off the DSP onto the SH2s. One of the few games to use the DSP for polygon transforms was Sonic R, which is why it runs as well as it does.

    Games using the SCU DSP that I know of : Sonic R, Quake and Burning Rangers. They all have in common that they are late games and look amazing.
    At least that is my understanding.

  11. #86
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    The very first Virtua Fighter as well as Remix used the DSP for doing math, so did Dead or Alive.

    The yabause wiki had a list of games that used it but I can't find that anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades View Post



    When SGL was released, transforms moved completely off the DSP onto the SH2s. One of the few games to use the DSP for polygon transforms was Sonic R, which is why it runs as well as it does.
    I read that Sega Rally used the DSP and that quite a few developers weren't happy that SEGA wouldn't share the micro code .

    I wonder if Radiant Silvergun or Dark Saviour use the DSP as well ?
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
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    Presented for your pleasure

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades View Post
    When SGL was released, transforms moved completely off the DSP onto the SH2s.
    Regarding this, I think SGL was a completely new SDK, so the function wasn't "moved", it was written using the SH2s for the first time.
    Before that they had the SBL which wasn't even an SDK so to speak, just a lot of basic helper functions. One of which was transform, which optionally could use the DSP.
    They later released code for doing DSP transforms. I don't know if that was completely new or if it re-used the SBL code... one of the tech bulletins has it, full with explanations, and it is said to be a third faster than the same thing running on SH2 (but it doesn't mention if using this code frees up SH2 cycles or not.).

    I could be wrong about this, though...

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