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Thread: Koei strategy games

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    (formerly known as 5233) Master of Shinobi Jeckidy's Avatar
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    Default Koei strategy games

    Does anyone have any experience with their strategy games? I always wanted to get in to games like Liberty or Death, Nobunaga, Romance of the Three Kingdoms, etc. but was never prepared to take time in learning them. It also seems Dynasty Warriors is well-liked and has been going on forever. Let me know.

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    Raging in the Streets goldenband's Avatar
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    I've played a few of them extensively, especially:

    Gemfire (Genesis)
    Genghis Khan II (Genesis)
    Nobunaga's Ambition (Genesis, Game Boy)
    Romance of the Three Kingdoms (NES)
    Romance of the Three Kingdoms III (Genesis)

    Gemfire is the easiest one to get into -- very basic. The Genesis version is a comfortable 2- or 3-day victory if you use the game's pseudo-protagonist; might be harder with other characters.

    ROTK 1 is simplistic but I find it easier to understand than the other two main franchises, though I've also played it a lot more. I've beaten it pretty comprehensively and now know how to dominate the CPU completely.

    I had a couple of long sessions with ROTK 3 and was beginning to figure it out; I'd like to get back to that, as it was starting to become fun. That's the key to all of these games -- getting past the learning curve. Kim Justice was a big fan of ROTK 2, talked about making a video about it, but hasn't yet.

    Nobunaga, I didn't enjoy as much. The Game Boy version is very cut down though still playable; I found a combat exploit that helped me beat Hard. The Genesis version was a reasonable experience on middling difficulty, but I really don't like the way the CPU comprehensively weights the RNG against you on harder difficulties -- especially because the game seems to have more RNG-dependent mechanics like assassinations.

    My wife and I spent a weekend playing Genghis Khan II years ago, and had a fun time doing so. Another one I'd like to get back to.

    The military sims -- P.T.O, Operation Europe -- are very impenetrable. P.T.O. and the sequel have some pretty staunch defenders, so I think they'll come to life if you're willing to put in the time.

    Operation Europe seems to be a failed effort from Koei. I played it for a couple hours once, started to understand what was going on, but even people who have beaten the game are mystified by the way your generals and soldiers sometimes just don't respond to your commands.

    Haven't played Liberty or Death, though I think it's one of the more accessible ones. Nor have I played L'Empereur or Bandit Kings of Ancient China on the NES, both of which have the reputation of being punishingly hard; I think some reliable strategies have been found for L'Empereur, though.

    I don't know the more recent games at all -- the latest Koei release I have is ROTK IV on Saturn.

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    End of line.. Hero of Algol gamevet's Avatar
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    The only one I'd played was Nobunga's Ambition on the Gameboy. I really couldn't into it, because the game seemed to focused on micro-management of everything. I'm more into traditional strategy games like Star Craft, Sins of a Solar Empire, Herzog Zwie, Fire Emblem, Shining Force and Warcraft.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



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    Master of Shinobi Mega Drive Bowlsey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeckidy View Post
    Does anyone have any experience with their strategy games? I always wanted to get in to games like Liberty or Death, Nobunaga, Romance of the Three Kingdoms, etc. but was never prepared to take time in learning them. It also seems Dynasty Warriors is well-liked and has been going on forever. Let me know.
    I used to be totally addicted to playing the Dynasty Warriors games back on the PS2, and would get all the add-ons and spin-offs released for them, such as DW Tactics, DW Empires, DW Xtreme Legends...yeah, I couldn't get enough of Koei's battlefield action games. They really got me interested in the Three Kingdoms period of history in ancient China too, and as I'm a big history buff that was an added bonus. Haven't played any recent DW games, but I'm sure they're just as awesome today as they were 16yrs ago when I was playing them.

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    Raging in the Streets goldenband's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    The only one I'd played was Nobunga's Ambition on the Gameboy. I really couldn't into it, because the game seemed to focused on micro-management of everything.
    Yeah, if you're not into micromanagement, playing a Koei game (an 8- or 16-bit one, anyway) is like a vegan going to a steakhouse: you might find one or two things to appreciate, but otherwise almost every option you have is something you don't enjoy.

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    I DON'T LIKE POKEMON Hero of Algol j_factor's Avatar
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    I played a lot of them in the 90s, but haven't touched any in over a decade.

    I thought Heir of Zendor was underrated. It was actually developed by Micronet though. It takes place in a sci-fi setting on another planet, where global conflict has broken out over water scarcity. Unlike most Koei games, it has an actual plot that progresses.

    Liberty or Death was definitely one of the better ones. Pretty historically accurate too. It's as complex as anything else, but I remember finding many aspects of the game fairly intuitive. I was never able to beat the game as the British side, which is basically hard mode.

    I didn't like Romance of the Three Kingdoms 1, but I did like Romance of the Three Kingdoms IV. I'm not sure why this series has so many entries or if it's worth playing more than one or two of them.

    I honestly thought Gemfire sucked. Bland fantasy setting, dull simplified gameplay. I'm not opposed to less complicated strategy games, but this was like Koei's equivalent of Final Fantasy Mystic Quest.

    Nobunaga's Ambition was probably their most popular. It was good, but Nobunaga's Ambition II didn't do anything for me.

    I couldn't get into Operation Europe at all, but I did enjoy PTO II on the Saturn. Didn't play the first PTO. I had Bandit Kings of Ancient China on Amiga, but I found that one confusing. I also played Genghis Khan but I don't really remember anything about it.

    Not really a strategy game, but Saiyuki: Journey West is a great Shining Force ish tactical RPG on the PS1. Based loosely on Journey to the West.


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    End of line.. Hero of Algol gamevet's Avatar
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    I was trying to think of the name of Heir of Zendor. I had it for the Saturn and just couldnít get into it at the time. I do like sci-fi style games though. I kind wish that Iíd kept the game.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



  8. #8
    Raging in the Streets goldenband's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j_factor View Post
    I thought Heir of Zendor was underrated. It was actually developed by Micronet though. It takes place in a sci-fi setting on another planet, where global conflict has broken out over water scarcity. Unlike most Koei games, it has an actual plot that progresses.

    I didn't like Romance of the Three Kingdoms 1, but I did like Romance of the Three Kingdoms IV. I'm not sure why this series has so many entries or if it's worth playing more than one or two of them.
    Heir of Zendor -- I have that and keep meaning to try it out.

    As for why there are so many ROTK games, I guess it's kind of like chess programs or sports games, where each iteration brings new innovations and slight improvements on the same basic formula.

    Quote Originally Posted by j_factor View Post
    I honestly thought Gemfire sucked. Bland fantasy setting, dull simplified gameplay. I'm not opposed to less complicated strategy games, but this was like Koei's equivalent of Final Fantasy Mystic Quest.
    That's pretty spot-on, really. It's targeted at people who don't actually like Koei games, just like FF:MQ is sort of an attempt to market an RPG to people who don't like RPGs. (Whether those clauses should have a "...yet" appended to the end is another issue.)

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    Master of Shinobi WarmSignal's Avatar
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    Typically when I see a Koei logo, I run. Not so much when Tecmo is involved. Strategy is not my thing, and I feel like every game Koei makes is essentially the same thing. Maybe true of all genres, but it's painfully obvious with Koei games.

  10. #10
    Raging in the Streets goldenband's Avatar
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    By the way (and for it's worth), the Koei games that haven't been defeated yet in the "Can Sega-16 beat..." thread are:

    P.T.O.
    Romance of the Three Kingdoms II
    Romance of the Three Kingdoms III

    However if it hadn't been for Goati, Operation Europe would probably still be up there, so it's just a stroke of luck that that one's gone. Not surprised that P.T.O. is still around, I couldn't make sense of it when I tried (admittedly not that hard).

    I'd like to beat ROTK 3, it's just a matter of finding the time and concentration to do it.

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    End of line.. Hero of Algol gamevet's Avatar
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    I could probably get into PTO. Iíve played and liked military strategy games like Iron Storm, Military Madness and Advance Wars. AW was the game that I wanted a GBA for.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



  12. #12
    Raging in the Streets goldenband's Avatar
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    From what I can tell P.T.O., and especially its sequel, are games that really click with certain people. I've read multiple accounts from people who played the hell out of one or both as a kid.

    For me, that game was ROTK -- I've probably put 100+ hours into it. So maybe Koei games are like baby birds, but in reverse -- whichever one we play first, we imprint upon.

    BTW we haven't mentioned Aerobiz! That's another one people seem to really like, if they click with it; same with its sequel, Aerobiz Supersonic. Someone was working on a translation of the third game on the Saturn, but gave up.

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