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Thread: Eyra - The Crow Maiden (NES) now on kickstarter with stretch goal for Mega Drive

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    Outrunner Raistlin's Avatar
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    Default Eyra - The Crow Maiden (NES) now on kickstarter with stretch goal for Mega Drive

    Pretty long title for a thread. 😅
    Today Second Dimension startet their kickstarter for Eyra - The Crow Maiden - a new game for NES.
    If they can collect $15000 a Mega Drive version will be done as well.
    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...PkCdXR1xaL2Lx4

  2. #2
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingRoad Rasher
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    It's kind of unexpected to go to KS for a small game (5 levels quoted) with no demo. Even from Second Dimension, the players won't know what they're getting.

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    Wildside Expert dra600n's Avatar
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    So last night I kind of goofed and hit the launch button on accident, and before I could do anything about it, a handful of people immediately backed it.

    A demo is coming, hopefully today or tomorrow (which was when we were planning on launching) as well as a trailer, hopefully. My tired self should not have been on Kickstarter last night :P

    ETA: It's 5 worlds, with 2 levels each and 4 hidden levels for a total of 14 stages, each being 4096px long.
    Last edited by dra600n; 02-16-2020 at 03:31 PM.

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    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingNameless One
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    Regarding the NES version:

    Yeah, those mock ups are definitely over budget real NES hardware for legal for color usage. The BG exceeds the four 3 color palettes+1 common color in all those shots (and doesn't adhere to the one palette per 16x16 pixel area rule). The sprites for the main character use up 2 of the 4 sprite palettes. Adding in a weapon shown, that's 3 leaving one for enemies that don't share those palettes (colors don't share between palettes) - so some of the sprite shown in the mock ups are beyond nes sprite color count. Is the team new to NES dev? How is the game design? Is it going to scroll ala SMB/MM/Castlevania, or is it screen to screen snap/scrolling? The art looks fantastic though! No working demo though, it's difficult to back. Is this Assembly or Nesmaker development project?

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    Raging in the Streets Sik's Avatar
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    OK, you got me to check the nametable palettes
    (disclaimer: order is probably wrong)


    https://i.imgur.com/veWCuWf.png

    Background: yellow
    1st palette: light purple, azure, white
    2nd palette: brown, darker orange, lighter orange
    3rd palette: dark blue, dark green, light green
    4th palette: dark red, bright red, pink

    "EYRA the crow maiden" seems to be a sprite (it's right against the width limit)


    https://i.imgur.com/KUlCc9j.png

    Background: brown
    1st palette: ochre, orange, pale yellow
    2nd palette: green, ochreish, orangeish
    3rd palette: purple, orangeish, pale yellow
    4th palette: turquoise, cyan, white


    https://i.imgur.com/olcobW5.png

    Background: dark blue
    1st palette: brown, orange, white
    2nd palette: purple, azure, white
    3rd palette: purple, azure, pink
    4th palette: dark green, light green, pale yellow


    https://i.imgur.com/C7pfCxm.png

    Background: dark turquoise
    1st palette: darker orange, lighter orange, yellow
    2nd palette: brownish, pink(ish?), pale yellow
    3rd palette: purple, pink, pale green
    4th palette: green, light green, yellow


    https://i.imgur.com/LJM977L.png
    (oof, HUD contrast)

    Background: dark turquoise
    1st palette: purple, turquoise, pale
    2nd palette: darker purple, maroon, orange
    3rd palette: darker purple, lighter purple, pink
    4th palette: brown, pale green, pale yellow


    https://i.imgur.com/Zuw5q5W.png

    Background: brown
    1st palette: ochre, orange, pale yellow
    2nd palette: green, ochreish, orangeish
    3rd palette: purple, orangeish, pale yellow
    4th palette: turquoise, cyan, white


    https://i.imgur.com/OAsHKt9.png

    Background: dark blue
    1st palette: brown, orange, white
    2nd palette: purple, azure, white
    3rd palette: purple, azure, pink
    4th palette: dark green, light green, pale yellow


    Not bothering with sprites since there don't ever seem to be enough sprites to use up all four palettes? (may have missed something, but gives you an idea of how it's clearly not past the limit) Also I didn't notice anything not respecting a 1616 boundary (and if they're using MMC5 or similar the mapper can actually provide attributes per 88, rendering that moot)

    EDIT: also note that even if a stage seems to be using more than 4+4 palettes, as long as it's only displaying that many at once it shouldn't be a problem. It is possible to swap palettes mid-stage (and I believe this was kinda common to do for sprites, even?).
    Last edited by Sik; 02-17-2020 at 05:43 AM.

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    Wildside Expert dra600n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by turboxray View Post
    Regarding the NES version:

    Yeah, those mock ups are definitely over budget real NES hardware for legal for color usage. The BG exceeds the four 3 color palettes+1 common color in all those shots (and doesn't adhere to the one palette per 16x16 pixel area rule). The sprites for the main character use up 2 of the 4 sprite palettes. Adding in a weapon shown, that's 3 leaving one for enemies that don't share those palettes (colors don't share between palettes) - so some of the sprite shown in the mock ups are beyond nes sprite color count.
    The mock-ups aren't over budget. The BG does not exceed the 3+1 palette (as Sik already pointed out)

    Quote Originally Posted by turboxray View Post
    Regarding the NES version:
    Is the team new to NES dev? How is the game design?
    No, that's why the game looks like it does and makes people think the color count is wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by turboxray View Post
    Is it going to scroll ala SMB/MM/Castlevania, or is it screen to screen snap/scrolling?
    That's actually a really good question - it's going to scroll like Mega Man/Castlevania in that you can walk back and forth on the map, 4096px (512 tiles wide) for each level.

    Quote Originally Posted by turboxray View Post
    The art looks fantastic though!
    Thanks! Jav does some amazing stuff with pixels.

    Quote Originally Posted by turboxray View Post
    No working demo though, it's difficult to back.
    Understandable. The demo is coming - it's definitely my fault the campaign launched without one. Fortunately it didn't seem to prevent us from reaching our goal, though, so once the demo comes out I hope it attracts even more backers who are hesitant because of that reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by turboxray View Post
    Is this Assembly or Nesmaker development project?
    While I truly don't believe that makes a difference (something is only as good as the person is that can utilize the tools before them), it's 100% clearly stated on how the game is being developed on the campaign page. I get not having a demo available, but were you just looking to slam the project and ignored reading the campaign details?

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    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-Training Wonder Boy's Avatar
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    I look forward to trying out the demo! If I like it, I'd be in for a Genesis version. Would the physical tiers allow backers to choose between NES and Genesis if the stretch goal is met?

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    Wildside Expert dra600n's Avatar
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    First demo is available now!

    http://www.second-dimension.com/downloads/eyra-demo

    There's still a lot missing (attacks, enemies, etc), but this will give you an idea of the path we're headed. All feedback is welcomed!

  9. #9
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingNameless One
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    Not bothering with sprites since there don't ever seem to be enough sprites to use up all four palettes? (may have missed something, but gives you an idea of how it's clearly not past the limit) Also I didn't notice anything not respecting a 1616 boundary (and if they're using MMC5 or similar the mapper can actually provide attributes per 88, rendering that moot)
    Says they're using NROM on the page, but that would be badass (yet to see a homebrew use MMC5 extended color capabilities).

    This screen shot (https://imgur.com/OAsHKt9) uses all 4 sprite palettes. Page shows a weapon that has its own palette. That would put it over 4. I'm just saying, and with all the enemies group'd together looking great, gives a slightly false impression.

    I was mostly just looking at this one since it caught my eye (https://i.imgur.com/C7pfCxm.png): it breaks the 4-color 16x16 palette attribute block on the hut (above the open door - roof line means wall tiles) and a few other places. They're not all glaring offenses in that one though. Didn't really look at the other ones.

    EDIT: also note that even if a stage seems to be using more than 4+4 palettes, as long as it's only displaying that many at once it shouldn't be a problem. It is possible to swap palettes mid-stage (and I believe this was kinda common to do for sprites, even?).
    It's hardly common and it's definitely not trivial on the NES (nor without quite a bit of side effects too).

    dra600n:
    it's 100% clearly stated on how the game is being developed on the campaign page
    I wouldn't ask if it wasn't clear haha. One line out of the whole page states nesasm3 and that's it. I could have sworn nesmaker builds on it (I could be wrong though). I honestly don't care if you're using it or not, just asking because your deadline's kinda pretty short (i.e. impressive for not having an advanced prototype developed at the start of this kickerstarter haha) - just professional curiosity.

    I've seen a lot of promised homebrew fall through over the years (further along than this) and plenty of nes 'mock ups' that were clearly wrong. Not looking the slam. Maybe was a bit guarded, but definitely hype for the NES one. Playable demo you posted makes a big difference!

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    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingRoad Rasher
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    MMC5 repro chips do not exist yet. Nobody wants to cannibalize existing games, and while you can release ROMs for Everdrives, a digital-only release means lots of piracy and not a lot of sales.

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    Raging in the Streets Sik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by turboxray View Post
    It's hardly common and it's definitely not trivial on the NES (nor without quite a bit of side effects too).
    I said mid-stage, not mid-screen (i.e. after the player reaches certain point in the map it loads new palettes).

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    Wildside Expert dra600n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by turboxray View Post

    I wouldn't ask if it wasn't clear haha. One line out of the whole page states nesasm3 and that's it. I could have sworn nesmaker builds on it (I could be wrong though). I honestly don't care if you're using it or not, just asking because your deadline's kinda pretty short (i.e. impressive for not having an advanced prototype developed at the start of this kickerstarter haha) - just professional curiosity.

    I've seen a lot of promised homebrew fall through over the years (further along than this) and plenty of nes 'mock ups' that were clearly wrong. Not looking the slam. Maybe was a bit guarded, but definitely hype for the NES one. Playable demo you posted makes a big difference!
    It's pretty clear on how we're building the game. There's an entire section called "Development" that goes over literally every tool we're using. I'm not sure how that isn't clear enough. Any tips on how to make it more apparent?

    Also, there's literally 2 mock-ups that says limitations aren't being used / adhered to, so it's clearly stated that those don't adhere to the limitation. Two. Every other image (mock-up or otherwise) adhere's to the NES limitations without any special tricks. We aren't overselling. If anything, we're underselling it.
    Last edited by dra600n; 02-19-2020 at 09:03 PM.

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    Outrunner Wesker's Avatar
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    Question. What should I pledge if I don't want the NES version (don't have a NES) but want the potential Mega Drive version that turns out by reaching the stretch goal? Which is quite close to be reached as of now.

    I understand the potential Mega Drive version will be something that could be chosen/pledged later on, after the conclusion of the Kickstarter.
    http://www.sega-16.com/forum/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=154&dateline=15683853  53

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    WCPO Agent Mad Moham's Avatar
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    I also would buy a Sega version, but have no interest in any new Nintendo games right now. So I would also like to know if there's any way for me to back the project.

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    Wildside Expert dra600n's Avatar
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    Genesis/MD tiers will be added if we reach the stretch goal, same as the NES ones (more or less, there will be bundle tiers as well). You can back any tier you want and can change your tier at any later point in time (or cancel if the stretch goal isn't met and you don't want the NES version).

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