Quantcast

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 41

Thread: Plans for DC successor before DC was discontinued

  1. #16
    I DON'T LIKE POKEMON Hero of Algol j_factor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    NorCal
    Posts
    9,340
    Rep Power
    130

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SegaDreamcast View Post
    Zip drive still looks cool 20 years later. I wonder what it was in focus testing groups or the technology itself that made Sega and Nintendo cool off the zip drives domestically. Even Nintendo originally released the 64DD as a mail order exclusive, seemed like a hesitant move. Were they afraid of add-on fatigue perhaps? Dividing or confusing the market? Not enough demand? Maybe a combination of all 3...
    I think it's more that by that time, Zip drives were seen as old and outdated technology. It seemed weird to people to play up this thing that was formerly semi-popular on computers but people largely stopped using a few years prior. Granted, the big reason for their demise was CD burners, which wouldn't have been viable for the same purposes. They would have been better off trying a hard drive add-on, or a disk pack drive, or a proprietary large "memory cartridge" or something. The Zip/iomega name was not a plus.

    I know I've read that the hard drive in the original Xbox was done to address what Microsoft saw as the DC's shortcomings, particularly in terms of online functions. Along with the decision to not support dial-up.


    You just can't handle my jawusumness responces.

  2. #17
    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Wales, UK
    Posts
    5,710
    Rep Power
    62

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Leynos View Post
    Aside from SEGA's own financial issues. Iomega was having its own issues. CD-Roms were talking over. They had some lawsuits with the click drive click of death problems. Other mediums like flash memory cards and such were putting Iomega quickly out of date. I'd say both played a part if I had to guess.
    Zip drive was needed to save data, and a re writable CD Drive cost far more at the time and would need more memory to hold any big files/DLC download via the DC to be burned on a CD. It's a shame as the DC internet functions were spot on otherwise, but held back by the small file size of the VMU.
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
    one of the best 3D shooting games available
    Presented for your pleasure

  3. #18
    WCPO Agent
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    926
    Rep Power
    21

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SegaDreamcast View Post
    Zip drive still looks cool 20 years later. I wonder what it was in focus testing groups or the technology itself that made Sega and Nintendo cool off the zip drives domestically. Even Nintendo originally released the 64DD as a mail order exclusive, seemed like a hesitant move. Were they afraid of add-on fatigue perhaps? Dividing or confusing the market? Not enough demand? Maybe a combination of all 3...
    It may look cool but it was crap, both the disks and the drives always had serious reliability problems. That's really what doomed the format. If it had been consistent it might have replaced the floppy. If Sega wanted to add rewritable storage in 2001-2002 they should have just gone with a 3.5" hard drive. Although I'm not sure how much that would have helped. An improved CPU/GPU/more RAM/DVD drive would have been a better use of resources.

  4. #19
    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Wales, UK
    Posts
    5,710
    Rep Power
    62

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by axel View Post
    Although I'm not sure how much that would have helped. An improved CPU/GPU/more RAM/DVD drive would have been a better use of resources.
    There a few factors to bare in mind. SEGA was looking into adding better storage than the VMU in the last '90s and I don't think anyone there knew of the issues of Zip Drives and TBH I never remember anyone with them, saying they had issues only how amazing there were; It can be easy to look back at things with the benefit of hidsight. Also I think yet another add on more GPU more Ram would have been the last thing SEGA needed.

    In 2002/3 imo it would have been better for SEGA to go with NA@MI II powered DC II with a DVD drive if the DC had sold in decent numbers of 50 million uints or so. Its still amazing to see how much better VF 4 looks on a the NA@MI II to the PS2 version. NA@MI II was such a awesome set up for the price.
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
    one of the best 3D shooting games available
    Presented for your pleasure

  5. #20
    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    British Columbia
    Posts
    3,995
    Rep Power
    64

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Leynos View Post
    Naomi 2 would be way too weak for 7th gen consoles
    Yes, way too weak. You weren't gonna be seeing 7th gen hardware that came out in 2000. The Naomi 2 can't even do 500,000 polygons at 60 FPS which is a low-range PS3/360 game. 7th gen hardware is mid-2000s.

    Also I don't think Sega was ever planning to make a Dreamcast successor. They knew Sony was too tough of competition, they were likely planning for the Dreamcast to sell 20-30 million and then that was it, they were done making consoles.


    But lets say they were planning to make a Dreamcast successor, and it came out in 2004. Theres actually a arcade board that came out in 2004, the Taito Type X. The Dreamcast successor could've been similar to this in terms of capabilities:

    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

  6. #21
    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Wales, UK
    Posts
    5,710
    Rep Power
    62

    Default

    Type X was a hugely expensive Arcade board , over double the price of NA@MI II . NA@M II was great tech and would have been a hugely powerful console in 2001 if SEGA launch along side the Arcade launch , like with the original DC.

    I very much doubt SEGA would ever have the money to out do the 360 or PS3 tech , given that I read the GPU inside the 360 cost over half a billion dollars to develop on its own.
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
    one of the best 3D shooting games available
    Presented for your pleasure

  7. #22
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingWildside Expert Virtua Hunter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    215
    Rep Power
    5

    Default

    Don't forget guys that Nintendo, by making an underpowered cheap junk hardware (wii) made a ludicrous success and returned to be a relevant company in the console biz, in the same generation where Sony and MS were pushing with the HD craze and Hollywood budgets...

    So here was a way for Sega to continue their hardware business.

    In the best case scenario, probably a console based on the Lindbergh board (that was basically pc hardware) could have been reasonable cost-wise and still give performance of a 7th gen.
    If not an option, there was always the way to recycle and improve the NAOMI 2 as a new console, after all like I said Nintendo made a success with an hardware from a previous generation...

  8. #23
    WCPO Agent
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    926
    Rep Power
    21

    Default

    I don't know how anyone can say a Naomi 2 would be "too weak" considering the Wii isn't any better and a Dreamcast 2 would likely have launched 2-3 years earlier. If it had good games that's all that would have mattered.

    The other thing I would have liked to see is a portable DC around 2004-2005, there are mobile versions of the SuperH architecture so it could have been doable.

  9. #24
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingWildside Expert Virtua Hunter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    215
    Rep Power
    5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by axel View Post
    I don't know how anyone can say a Naomi 2 would be "too weak" considering the Wii isn't any better and a Dreamcast 2 would likely have launched 2-3 years earlier. If it had good games that's all that would have mattered.

    Exactly.

    The other thing I would have liked to see is a portable DC around 2004-2005, there are mobile versions of the SuperH architecture so it could have been doable.
    I remember some Sega people mentioning in 2001-2002 the possibility of Dreamcast included in mobile devices.

  10. #25
    The Future Is Yesterday Hedgehog-in-TrainingRaging in the Streets Leynos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    My Chair
    Posts
    4,714
    Rep Power
    58

    Default

    SEGA isn't Nintendo. SEGA was more about pushing specs. Nintendo is a more conservative and very different approach to things. So unless Naomi had some gimmick to outdo Wii and was targeting grandmas and people who never played games before then yes Naomi 2 was too weak. Wii's power was a non-issue because of the demographic it targeted. So if SEGA was aiming for a serious crowd by 7th gen Naomi 2 would not cut it.


    As for a portable DC. I provided that article in another thread but it was around 2004-2005 called Dreamcast on a chip. That's what I wanted for a portable SEGA machine in 2005-2006. It was on paper-pushing 5 million Polygons a second at max. It was a little stronger than the DC but was built off that hardware.

    Life!? ... What console is that on?



    [PSN] Segata-S //[Switch] FC-SW 3892 5228 2895 //[XBL]Dogi99


  11. #26
    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    British Columbia
    Posts
    3,995
    Rep Power
    64

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    I very much doubt SEGA would ever have the money to out do the 360 or PS3 tech , given that I read the GPU inside the 360 cost over half a billion dollars to develop on its own.
    Its not hard to come close to PS3/360 specifications just by using off the shelf parts.


    Quote Originally Posted by Virtua Hunter View Post
    Don't forget guys that Nintendo, by making an underpowered cheap junk hardware (wii) made a ludicrous success and returned to be a relevant company in the console biz, in the same generation where Sony and MS were pushing with the HD craze and Hollywood budgets...
    But this is really the last thing any of us would've wanted them to do. I think we're all hardcore gamers in this thread.

    Though the sad reality is, we know the reason Nintendo went this route is because they learned they can't compete with Sony and Microsoft, so it would be a similar case for Sega.

    Quote Originally Posted by Virtua Hunter View Post
    In the best case scenario, probably a console based on the Lindbergh board (that was basically pc hardware) could have been reasonable cost-wise and still give performance of a 7th gen.
    http://www.system16.com/hardware.php?id=731&page=1

    CPU : Intel Pentium 4 3.0G HT (800Mhz FSB - 1MB L2 Cache)
    GFX : NVIDIA GeForce 6 Series GPU
    GFX Memory : 256MB (256 bit GDDR3)
    GFX Capabilities : Vertex Shader 3.0, Pixel Shader 3.0
    Resolution : HDTV (High Definition)
    RAM : 1024MB 184pin DDR SD-RAM PC3200 (2x 512MB DDR 400 sticks)
    LAN : 10/100/1000 TBase Gigabit Network
    Other : DVD Drive Support, USB2.0 (x4) - Sega ALL.NET online support.
    The Lindbergh is pure 7th gen hardware. Just change the main RAM to 512 MB then you got a home console.


    Quote Originally Posted by Leynos View Post
    SEGA isn't Nintendo. SEGA was more about pushing specs. Nintendo is a more conservative and very different approach to things. So unless Naomi had some gimmick to outdo Wii and was targeting grandmas and people who never played games before then yes Naomi 2 was too weak. Wii's power was a non-issue because of the demographic it targeted. So if SEGA was aiming for a serious crowd by 7th gen Naomi 2 would not cut it.
    Leynos(I'll finally start using your proper name), are you telling me you don't like swinging dildos in front of a TV screen?
    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

  12. #27
    WCPO Agent
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    926
    Rep Power
    21

    Default

    By the 2000s it was obvious that better hardware did not necessarily equal more sales. The PS2 is the best selling console of all time despite being weaker than the GC or XBox. The fact that games continued to be made for the Naomi 2 and Atomiswave showed there was plenty of life left in that architecture. Sega was always an innovator when it came to hardware, they would have come up with features nobody else was thinking about at the time (upgraded VMUs, maybe?)

  13. #28
    The Future Is Yesterday Hedgehog-in-TrainingRaging in the Streets Leynos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    My Chair
    Posts
    4,714
    Rep Power
    58

    Default

    So if SEGA used lower power hardware as a successor I think DC on a chip would work best. 5-6 million PPS. Portable and dock to a TV. The Switch idea before Switch. So as powerful as 6th gen consoles in the 7th gen but portable. https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...cast-on-a-chip a step further than PSP. This would be a device on its own. Not entirely invading the dedicated handheld space nor the home console space.

    This would be above a PSP in power. I'd use carts ranging from 128MB to 256MB to 512MB. DS carts maxed out at 512 I believe but rarely used. Tho DS was a much less capable device. I could see some DC ports compressed to those sizes esp with a lower resolution, likely similar to PSP of 480x270.

    Life!? ... What console is that on?



    [PSN] Segata-S //[Switch] FC-SW 3892 5228 2895 //[XBL]Dogi99


  14. #29
    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    British Columbia
    Posts
    3,995
    Rep Power
    64

    Default

    Lindbergh is the best idea.



    This definitely looks similar to PS3/360.
    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

  15. #30
    WCPO Agent
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    926
    Rep Power
    21

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Leynos View Post
    So if SEGA used lower power hardware as a successor I think DC on a chip would work best. 5-6 million PPS. Portable and dock to a TV. The Switch idea before Switch. So as powerful as 6th gen consoles in the 7th gen but portable. https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...cast-on-a-chip a step further than PSP. This would be a device on its own. Not entirely invading the dedicated handheld space nor the home console space.

    This would be above a PSP in power. I'd use carts ranging from 128MB to 256MB to 512MB. DS carts maxed out at 512 I believe but rarely used. Tho DS was a much less capable device. I could see some DC ports compressed to those sizes esp with a lower resolution, likely similar to PSP of 480x270.
    That would have been doable and in fact they could have kept the 640x480 resolution if necessary. There was a company in San Francisco around that time, called OQO, they had built a pocket PC with a 4" VGA resolution LCD. (The 2004 production version was 800x480 but the prototypes circa 2002 were all 640x480). So the technology was there. You would not get great battery life on something like that, maybe 3, 3.5 hours, but if the idea is to dock it to a TV for longer sessions then it doesn't matter. In fact it would still be cool if Sega licensed a product like that today, just like the Genesis clones.

    Carts would have been fine, that's what the NAOMI used so no great loss for most of the games, maybe just drop cut scenes that everyone skips anyway.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •