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Thread: krikzz MD Pro features announced

  1. #76
    Super Sexy Sega Master of Shinobi cowboyscowboys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wowsux133 View Post
    https://twitter.com/krikzz/status/1281376113554591745

    Looks like the .bin issue has been fixed, and it appears Krikzz has finished his MD+ equivalent, MSU-MD.
    That is sweet
    Beat Em Up- Streets of Rage 2
    Platformer- Sonic 3 and Knuckles
    Run and Gun- Gunstar Heroes
    Adventure- Story of Thor
    Action- Shinobi 3

  2. #77
    Shining Hero Joe Redifer's Avatar
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    I still would rather play MD+ games than "MD+ equivalent". I just don't understand why he doesn't implement it. There's no technical reason why he couldn't, from what I understand. There's no need for competition in the "Genesis games with CD audio format" realm.

  3. #78
    Raging in the Streets Sik's Avatar
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    There was also no need to create an incompatible format that only works on a pricey cartridge when it could have been done in a way that was compatible with the real add-on and existing emulators in the first place. The only thing that made it hard was lack of a ready-to-use sub CPU program to use as CD driver (which is what krikzz is providing), which TerraOnion could have easily made themselves as well, but they went with the lock-in method instead. Heck, krikzz even went ahead and modified the existing patches to work without MD+.

    Let's not pretend that krikzz is being a jerk by not implementing MD+ when TerraOnion was the one who started this when there was no need for a new feature in the first place.

  4. #79
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    I don’t see any inference towards anyone being a jerk, just that there’s little value in creating an alternative format for CD audio format which is a valid point.

  5. #80
    Raging in the Streets Sik's Avatar
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    It isn't though a new alternative format though, it's the same plain old mode 1 stuff that homebrewers had been doing before. The only thing krikzz did was to provide a ready-to-use driver so nobody else has to waste time making their own.

  6. #81
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingRoad Rasher
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    Indeed, TO's was the alternative format for which there was little value...

  7. #82
    Shining Hero Joe Redifer's Avatar
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    See, that's the thing. Who says it needs to be compatible with real hardware (ie the Sega CD)? Both carts already support Mode 1. But if we stuck with ONLY Mode 1, that would be extremely limiting. Mode 1 does not offer seamless looping audio and there's no way real hardware could ever support that. MD+ is also really easy to author, beyond the hacking of the original ROM. And you can hack pretty much any game, not having to worry about slicing it up to fit Sega CD's RAM limitations. Hell, it's less complicated than making a SNES MSU ROM. Please learn a little bit about MD+. I will grant you that it should be compatible with emulators though. But that's on the emulator authors to implement and MD+ is an open standard. I know there is a MAME/MESS/whatever build that works with it.

    Also Mode 1 has been around for how long and how many Mode 1 games are there? I'm willing to bet fewer than MD+ releases.

    Here's the manual for MD+ - https://downloads.terraonion.com/pub...DEV_Manual.pdf
    Last edited by Joe Redifer; 07-13-2020 at 05:26 AM.

  8. #83
    Extreme Procrastinator Master of Shinobi Flygon's Avatar
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    Why screw over owners of actual MCD consoles, that don't own an MD+ compatible flashcart?

  9. #84
    Shining Hero Joe Redifer's Avatar
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    I dunno why screw SNES owners who don't have an SD2SNES or whatever it's called these days?

  10. #85
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingRoad Rasher nihilblack's Avatar
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    Yep, no one cared about Mode 1, and suddenly it's ubber-important to not deviate from that.

    I don't see why Terraonion was "screwing" anyone (calm down, krikzz fanboys). They offered something extra that the real hardware can't do, as Joe pointed out, and it's a really nice extra. And yes, they developed it and they're in their right to make it propietary. What are we now, hippies? But then again, if Master krikzz says that's a fuck up, then let's repeat it passionately.

    I guess krikzz is screwing people with his crappy NES emulation?

  11. #86
    Raging in the Streets Sik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Redifer View Post
    I dunno why screw SNES owners who don't have an SD2SNES or whatever it's called these days?
    1) There was no available equivalent to that on SNES (where did that SNES CD go?) and 2) didn't it get first implemented in an emulator?

    Quote Originally Posted by nihilblack View Post
    I guess krikzz is screwing people with his crappy NES emulation?
    There are people who think that the effort should have gone on Game Gear compatibility instead, so make what you want out of that… (not to mention, 32X issues, though honestly I'm not sure you can fix those without modding the 32X itself)


    But yeah no, whatever, I'm actively trying to hold back everything and being an old fart partypooper who just wants to see all the kids cry because they can't have those MP3 hacks, same reason I'm holding back everybody by arguing we shouldn't try to make whole new mappers every single time somebody wants to make a new game, etc. By the way I don't recall people suddenly showing so much interest on MD+ until this flashcart showed up (the MD+ hacking stuff didn't seem to get much attention after a few days) and suddenly everybody has to whine about how it doesn't support MD+.

    Also I'm surprised you're all railing against krikzz yet nobody seems to yell at emulator developers for the lack of support. I'd imagine that the latter would be seen as more important, since they're way more widely accessible? (not to mention much easier to emulate than the Mega CD itself)

  12. #87
    Extreme Procrastinator Master of Shinobi Flygon's Avatar
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    I'm still not clear what the problem with supporting the actual MEGA CD is.
    The only, only actual problem until recently was the lack of an open source driver to actually drive the hardware - and now krikzz has resolved that anyway.

    Nevermind the fence of actually having to hack the original Mega Drive games in the first place deterring most people interested in the concept.
    And those skilled enough to hack a game for MD+ support, are also skilled enough to use a standardized MCD driver to achieve the same function.

    There's absolutely no point, no purpose, in having a proprietary MD+ mode, when the MEGA CD already achieves the exact same function with a much broader userbase.

    Also, bringing up the MSU1 isn't even relevant to the situation - the SNES never had a CD hardware solution distributed to millions of customers, with many many enthusiasts today already having affordable flashcarts capable of running software that can take advantage of Mode 1.

    Not everybody can afford a MegaSD Flashcart. It's ridiculously expensive. The parent company behind it are known to be abrasive, shipping stuff out of Andorra is a fucking pain in the arse, and there's no actual point in the MD+ features existing when the solution of having a simple MEGA CD driver to work from works just as well, and is as easy to implement.
    The Mega EverDrive Pro is just as painfully expensive for a lot of people, but guess what, a lot of people that are enthusiastic enough to have MEGA CDs, and also are interested in flashcarts, already have older Flashcarts, with otherwise no need to buy a new painfully expensive flashcart.

    Not all of us are flush with money.


    Joe Redifer, I respect you, and I enjoy the content that your Game Sack channel produces - but please stop digging yourself into a hole deeper.

  13. #88
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingWCPO Agent avlon's Avatar
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    LOL... I don't understand how an unreleased add-on is somehow the equivalent of hardware that was actually released. Not to mention that the one unofficial SNES CD game "Super Boss Gaiden" can *still* be played on practically any SNES flash cart.

    I don't have a bone to pick in this "fight" but as a Mega SD owner, I also don't have a problem with the PRO's way of doing things. Choice is a good thing. Either both formats will improve or the best one will win out in the end.

  14. #89
    Shining Hero Joe Redifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flygon View Post
    And those skilled enough to hack a game for MD+ support, are also skilled enough to use a standardized MCD driver to achieve the same function.

    There's absolutely no point, no purpose, in having a proprietary MD+ mode, when the MEGA CD already achieves the exact same function with a much broader userbase.
    This just goes to show you have no idea what MD+ is. It is not the same exact function. I will say it again and maybe you will read it this time: IT OFFERS SEAMLESS LOOPING. And honestly, that's hella cool. Mode 1 CANNOT DO THAT. MD+ is open source, BTW.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flygon View Post
    Also, bringing up the MSU1 isn't even relevant to the situation
    It totally is. Why? Because by your logic NOTHING should be done unless it can also be done on the Mega CD itself. It's silly. Again it's up to the emulator authors to support this or that. They could easily.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flygon View Post
    please stop digging yourself into a hole deeper.
    I'm not digging in to any hole, just wondering why Krikzz doesn't support MD+ when there is literally no reason for him not to. Like I said, both already support Mode 1. No reason for that to go away. But MD+ is superior. And also like I said, I'm not seeing a ton of Mode 1 releases. How would you be able to do Streets of Rage 2 on Mode 1? Please explain how that can be done. Hell, Sega had to lose 2 players in Golden Axe in order to fit it in the Sega CD's RAM. A game like Streets of Rage 2 would have to load more data as you play. Sounds like a harder hack than just removing the music and pointing at a CUE sheet to me. But don't mind me, I'll just be here in my "hole" with some sweet MD+ games. If y'all wanna be miserable and grumpy about it, then that's your choice. I choose to enjoy. I just wish I could enjoy them on Mega Everdrive Pro as well and don't understand why he just doesn't support it. Must be a pride thing. Seeing as how you go off on Terraonion, I think the main reason you don't like MD+ is because you don't like Terraonion.

  15. #90
    Extreme Procrastinator Master of Shinobi Flygon's Avatar
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    Good thing all the MD+ projects got ported over to Mode 1 then.

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