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Thread: Paprium: The Official Thread Mk 2

  1. #7846
    Mega Driver Hedgehog-in-TrainingMaster of Shinobi Gryson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chilled View Post
    pre ordering something at 60 $ is not investing, even if the company behind says so just to entitle people into thinking they are.
    the difference between promising things (and not delivering -or massive delaying) and lying is quite thin these days. Tanglewood or Xeno Crisis did good PR and Paprium is the opposite. That is just what there is. Do you really think most companies tell the actual truth of what is happening behind the scenes during development phase?
    You're right - not investor in the sense of shareholder, but I mean investor in the sense that they invested their money in seeing the product complete. And many of the people involved here invested much more than $60.

    Have you kept up with what happened at the "launch party"? The game was clearly not anywhere near complete, yet promises were made and people wasted travel time / money to see basically a tech demo. There's no excuse.

  2. #7847
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    @Chilled
    KS is not pre-ordering tho. It's funding with incentives.

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  3. #7848
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    yes, but funding with 60 $ is not investing... and most people fund these things because the incentive is, well, the game in cartridge format, which suspiciously looks a lot like pre ordering... interesting debate, though mostly offtopic.

    as for the party, it was just ANOTHER event (like the trailer etc) in order to keep up the hype and maybe preordering. Whether this is actually backfiring or not should be evaluated having the real numbers in consideration, maybe all those events do boost preorders in France? When talking about such a small market (what are they aiming at? 5 to 8.000 copies worldwide?), you have to see way past english forums like this one
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  4. #7849
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingSports Talker
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    I don't know if this has happened to Paprium too, but....

    During Pier Solar's very early development, wasn't one of the reasons development took longer than planned was because one of the artists who was working on the game quit and demanded that all of his work be removed? I don't know the specifics but there's a lot of artwork that I've seen in videos on youtube of the playable early beta version of the game that ended up missing or being redone for the final version of the game (on the Mega Drive).

    The inventory system is totally different looking, plus there's a bunch of enemies and the first boss is completely different too. Not sure if they were re-done for this reason, but glad they were redone as they just didn't look good at all imo.

    Anyway, regarding Paprium and with Watermelon having always freelanced individuals to work on their games, it's possible that people who were working on Paprium quit (perhaps weren't being paid and felt they'd never be paid) and that's why the game has been stuck in development hell. Doesn't make much sense either to show off a tech demo of the game at the "launch" party and it looks even less complete than what was shown in the trailer from what, 2 years ago?

    The game could've ended up running into the same problems that the now vaporware "Elysian Shadows" had. Fortunately, I haven't pre-ordered Paprium and I decided at the last minute to not back Elysian Shadows's kickstarter just because I had major concerns over the actual gameplay shown (or more like not shown) of the game.

    I've included in the 3 attachments the enemies from the beta version of Pier Solar which were never included in the final version of the game.

    Attachment 14571Attachment 14572Attachment 14573

  5. #7850
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    Also, I'm making a 2nd post about Pier Solar because I talked about so many things in my previous post, but anyway... while I never played the Mega Drive version, I very much enjoyed the Steam demo and later the Dreamcast version. I'm going to quote myself from the Steam board from some months ago....

    I'd argue that if the game was optimized upon release with all of the features from the 2nd patch/update that it would've received much better reviews/user feedback which would've led to better sales/popularity.

    Keep in mind that upon release, most reviews were based on the PS3 version which had terrible loading and lag issues (due to the PS3 hardware's horribly designed 256mb split-RAM architecture of it's 512mb RAM makeup), and the game had a corrupt save bug problem where people were losing their save data (with both of these being quickly fixed with a patch shortly after release, though i think the XB1 version may still has save issues).

    Also, the "shop a holic" trophy/achievement was glitched (It was fixed in the 2nd patch/update) so people couldn't 100% the game's achievements/trophies/get the Platinum trophy on PS3/PS4.

    But also, I cannot say enough just how huge the 2nd update for the game was and how dramatically improved it made the game, but it didn't come out until nearly 6 months after release.

    - New game+

    - Brightening up the dungeons and making traveling through them less murky

    - An encounter rate option (8x, 4x, 1/2x, 1/4x, all the way down to zero to just free roam dungeons and find any missed areas/treasures)

    - The ability to make battles SUPER QUICK by toggling animation speed 4x faster (which also speeds up the healing animation outside of battles, with healing outside of battles also being streamlined in the update so you can see how each party member is doing).

    These changes were HUUUUUUGE and took the game from a 6.5/10 to an easy 8.5/10 for me.

    Regarding the time it came for Pier Solar HD to come out, the kickstarter for remastering the original game to current gen consoles was in November of 2012. The game came out in November 2014 (two years after the kickstarter ended). That's a pretty fast release by kickstarter standards lol. And the amount of work that went into remastering and improving the original homebrew Mega Drive version of Pier Solar was enormous, those who worked on the game at Watermelon deserve a tremendous amount of respect for the final version of the game.
    I wonder if the people on these boards who didn't like Pier Solar, if they're talking specifically about the Mega Drive version and if not then if they even know about the patch that came out 6 months later for the HD version because that completely alters the game's experience imo (making it way, way, waaaaay more fun to play).

    Also want to mention that porting the game to PS3, PS4, 360, XB1, Wii U, PC and later Dreamcast is a crazy amount of work. Too bad Vita version was cancelled but as a non-Vita owner I'm ok with that lol.

    As for the game itself, I just wish characters and NPCs had their names displayed, wish there was a wider enemy variety and wish the inventory menu was redone as it's super janky looking, but otherwise it's a solid old-school jrpg imo and pretty much what I wanted it to be. Such a shame it seems a limited physical PS4 version is never going to happen.
    Last edited by DrLight99; 11-06-2018 at 09:55 AM.

  6. #7851
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mask of Destiny View Post
    Nope, I wrote all the CD-specific code for Mighty Mighty Missile.
    EDIT: I guess there's the CD soundtrack stuff for Pier Solar though. Not sure who implemented that.
    Sorry for that. I had no idea.
    Thanks for the correction.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mask of Destiny View Post
    I'm not sure if he's really behind the times from a technical perspective, but a number of things that made Pier Solar such an accomplishment are less relevant now. There's a proven market for new Gen/MD releases. There are established crowd funding platforms. Getting carts manufactured is more straightforward, etc.
    Yep.


    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Tiger View Post
    Fonzie just seems like the kind of programmer who tends to make cool tech demos but doesn't have space in his life to commit to a full ambitious game production.
    Except now he's trying to do it anyway and using a lot of other people's money to fund himself, without paying any of the other bills/contracts involved with it.
    If he's in way over his head as far as being incapable of managing the situation, it only gets worse each day going forward.
    He should just be a secondary programmer on an ambitious game project, where he gets to work on one gimmicky thing (like Pier Solar Mode 7) at a time, until he completes it. Then he can come up with another one.
    I agree with everything you said but especially the part in bold.
    His announcements and excuses in the last few years sound to me like someone trying to buy more time for himself in the expectation of turning things around at last minute. It doesn't seem to be working though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamahl View Post
    I guess he wanted to one up everyone again by using the DATENMEISTER or whatever the name of the chip is and all the other nonsense. Boy did that backfire.
    This.



    Quote Originally Posted by chilled View Post
    exactly what games released after Pier Solar are more impressive than that one?
    Gimmicks aside, exactly what's impressive about Pier Solar? Its cartridge capacity?!


    Quote Originally Posted by chilled View Post
    Fonzie is the Hideaki Anno of the MD scene
    Quote Originally Posted by chilled View Post
    but this is still looking like a Neo Geo game
    LMAO.
    Last edited by Barone; 11-05-2018 at 09:37 PM.

  7. #7852
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    Paprium naysayers be like:


  8. #7853
    Sports Talker Mathius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrLight99 View Post
    Also, I'm making a 2nd post about Pier Solar because I talked about so many things in my previous post, but anyway... while I never played the Mega Drive version, I very much enjoyed the Steam demo and later the Dreamcast version. I'm going to quote myself from the Steam board from some months ago....



    I wonder if the people on these boards who didn't like Pier Solar, if they're talking specifically about the Mega Drive version and if not then if they even know about the patch that came out 6 months later for the HD version because that completely alters the game's experience imo (making it way, way, waaaaay more fun to play).

    Also want to mention that porting the game to PS3, PS4, 360, XB1, Wii U, PC and later Dreamcast is a crazy amount of work. Too bad Vita version was cancelled but as a non-Vita owner I'm ok with that lol.

    As for the game itself, I just wish characters and NPCs had their names displayed, wish there was a wider enemy variety and wish the inventory menu was redone as it's super janky looking, but otherwise it's a solid old-school jrpg imo and pretty much what I wanted it to be. Such a shame it seems a limited physical PS4 version is never going to happen.
    I helped Kickstart the Dreamcast remaster of Pier Solar, plus own the MD version, but haven't really invested much time in either. Did the update patches for the PS3 version end up making it into the Dreamcast version? If so you've sold me on actually trying it out finally.
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  9. #7854
    Raging in the Streets Sik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrLight99 View Post
    The game could've ended up running into the same problems that the now vaporware "Elysian Shadows" had. Fortunately, I haven't pre-ordered Paprium and I decided at the last minute to not back Elysian Shadows's kickstarter just because I had major concerns over the actual gameplay shown (or more like not shown) of the game.
    To their credit, at least their VMU emulator does work, as spartan as its interface may be (although absolutely make sure to get a BIOS to go with it), so something came out so far. Can't say even that about Paprium…

    Mind you, if I was in charge I'd avoid crowdfunding altogether. I don't like getting in debt, nor even give the chance to let people pay extra (because I'm well aware that people are just plain reckless with money). Also probably why I refuse to get simpler stuff on cartridge even when some people ask me.

  10. #7855
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathius View Post
    I helped Kickstart the Dreamcast remaster of Pier Solar, plus own the MD version, but haven't really invested much time in either. Did the update patches for the PS3 version end up making it into the Dreamcast version? If so you've sold me on actually trying it out finally.
    Well to begin, the Mega Drive version of Pier Solar is pretty much obsolete in the sense that the HD remastered version contains literally EVERYTHING that the Mega Drive version has in terms of content. The original MD graphics, the MD music, you can instantly toggle between those and the HD graphics and the CD quality remixed soundtrack (which i believe was included with the MD release as an extra CD to be played on the Sega CD while playing the cart on the Mega Drive?) any time you want, except for like for the very first minute of when you start a new game because you need to be able to control a character and go to the in-game menu to toggle back and forth between those options.

    But to specifically answer your question, the Dreamcast version does indeed include ALL of the changes that were made with the final patch the newer consoles received. It even includes an in-game achievement/trophy list identical to the achievement/trophy list of the PC, PS3/4 and 360/XB1 versions as well as all of the "unlockables" like the mini-games and OST music box.

    The default battle speed of Pier Solar was soooo slow and random encounters happened way too quick so going through dungeons/areas with enemies was tedious as all hell. With the update you can set battle speed to 1x, 2x, 3x or 4x, and you can even disable battle animations entirely if you want to go through battles in like seriously 10 seconds lol. I prefer battle speed of 2x and encounter rate of 1/2 for most of the game. But all of that boring grinding and constantly annoying random encounters that plagued the vanilla version of Pier Solar, that's been eradicated in the Dreamcast version and the final patched modern console versions.

    When playing the classic Dragon Quest games for example, no one and I mean NO ONE wants to go through those games with the default battle speed, everyone cranks that battle speed up. Dragon Warrior VII on the PS1 is one of my favorite games of all time and I had battle speed set to near max for almost the entire game and still put over 200 hours into the game, i couldn't imagine going through the same amount of progress in DW7 but having it take like 100 hours long, just thinking about that hurts my brain lol.

    Plus for healing outside of battle, the battle animation speed works on that as well so you can use healing spells super quickly whereas before it was also much longer and tedious than it needed to be because you need to wait for the healing spell animation to finish every single time you used one. And now you can see the status of each character when healing outside of battle too without having to select each party member individually to see how they're doing.

    As I said before, without that final patch/update I'd give Pier Solar HD a 6.5/10. Or rather, i think i'd put the score more along 6/10 and the fully patched version as an 8/10. The only thing about the Dreamcast version though is that everything looks kinda blurry since the game was designed for 720p and 1080p resolution/outputs. There is that special Dreamcast cable to have it run on the Dreamcast at 720p but i don't have that.

    Ideally the PS4 version is the best version of the game since it's 1080p and has true widescreen support but sadly it's digital only, which i guess i'm going to have to buy eventually since a physical release from LimitedRunGames, EastAsiaSoft, StrictlyLimitedGames or anyone else doing limited edition PS4 physicals sounds like is never going to happen.
    Last edited by DrLight99; 11-05-2018 at 10:49 PM.

  11. #7856
    The Cat in the Hat Shining Hero NeoVamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GameUser-16-32-128 View Post
    Paprium naysayers be like:


    Meanwhile, on the other side..

  12. #7857
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    My life is meaningless:
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to NeoVamp again.

  13. #7858
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrLight99 View Post
    The default battle speed of Pier Solar was soooo slow and random encounters happened way too quick so going through dungeons/areas with enemies was tedious as all hell. With the update you can set battle speed to 1x, 2x, 3x or 4x, and you can even disable battle animations entirely if you want to go through battles in like seriously 10 seconds lol. I prefer battle speed of 2x and encounter rate of 1/2 for most of the game. But all of that boring grinding and constantly annoying random encounters that plagued the vanilla version of Pier Solar, that's been eradicated in the Dreamcast version and the final patched modern console versions.
    This is exactly why I never got very far in PS. It was technically impressive, I can't take anything away from the team that made it. But I have limited patience with RPGs as it is and things got tedious fast.

  14. #7859
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    I enjoyed the hell out of Pier Solar for several days (I'm not an RPG guy by any means) but the random encounters eventually defeated me and I never went back.

  15. #7860
    WCPO Agent CrossBow's Avatar
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    I do own the very first print run of Pier Solar for the MD/Genesis but have never gotten the CD audio to work without skipping horribly. Especially on the model 1 Sega CD it is useless. So it turned me off from the get go and I've never really played it at all. How bad are the random encounters on the first release as compared to say... Skies of Arkadia on the DC? Cause that game next to FF VII on the PC seem to be random encounter after random encounter. I still enjoyed the hell outta Skies of Arkadia regardless and beat it but yeah...it was kind of a slog in places.

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