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Thread: Paprium: The Official Thread Mk 2

  1. #11191
    Raging in the Streets Sik's Avatar
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    We went over this before and the only thing we managed to get is make Melf create more sections, not less. That's how we got Developer's Den, which only ended up making things worse as new homebrew got even less visibility than before by pushing them into a subsection of the section that was originally meant to hold them in the first place.

    And also let's be honest, homebrew is starting to feel more like a fad. People will be way more excited about a color hack or a balance hack of an existing game from the '90s than over some new game for which they have no nostalgia at all.

  2. #11192
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingNameless One Scrobins09's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sik View Post
    And also let's be honest, homebrew is starting to feel more like a fad. People will be way more excited about a color hack or a balance hack of an existing game from the '90s than over some new game for which they have no nostalgia at all.
    I don't think that's true at all. Genesis (and Sega generally) homebrew isn't particularly robust, but NES homebrew is thriving. I think hacks may be more likely to fade as that market gets saturated.

  3. #11193
    Raging in the Streets xelement5x's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post
    That's for collectors.

    2020 Sega-16 forum is a shadow of what this forum once was and for a lot of reasons.
    Some of the former active members which were hardcore modders and CRT collectors are now active in Facebook groups.
    Developers and hackers discuss on discord now.
    News are mostly shared on Twitter.
    That a pretty good succinct version of where most people have gone. PCEngineFans was built out of the rubble of PCEngineFX and it's got maybe a dozen regulars as well.

    Like you say, just a lot more people on Facebook and Discord now. Neither is good for long term preservation of information though. Facebook is absolute garbage in terms of longevity especially, if you tried to discuss Paprium there it would be a huge number of disparate threads all over the place.
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    A spine card is the hymen of a new game assuring its first owner that he is truly her one and only, and of a used game assuring its new owner that whilst she has been played with in the past that play has never been too careless or thorough.

  4. #11194
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingWildside Expert Spendle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sik View Post
    And also let's be honest, homebrew is starting to feel more like a fad. People will be way more excited about a color hack or a balance hack of an existing game from the '90s than over some new game for which they have no nostalgia at all.
    I think you're onto something there. I had an epiphany a few months ago where I realised that I was wasting my money on new mega drive games as they did nothing for me. If I'm going to spend some of my earnings on old system games I want to experience the originals - primarily buying games I wanted to own but never did.

    The first homebrew games on the mega drive had the novelty of resurrecting the system but these days new games come thick and fast. They aren't cheap either so I'd rather divert my cash to something that is original and developed under the challenges and constraints of the time. Not everyone will think similarly to me, I get that.

    Once I've unboxed my games from storage I will be selling the few homebrew titles that I do have and reinvesting any cash on original software.

  5. #11195
    Death Bringer ESWAT Veteran Black_Tiger's Avatar
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    Discord sucks because it's a glorified chatroom. You can't document and easily search through priceless info like you can on a message board.

    Revisionism and historical documentation slipping away was already bad enough. Soon there won't be enough people who know much about classic gaming to even have substantial discussions.

    Meanwhile new games for classic consoles will still come and go in order to fill collectors' shelves.
    Quote Originally Posted by year2kill06
    everyone knows nintendo is far way cooler than sega just face it nintendo has more better games and originals

  6. #11196
    Death Bringer ESWAT Veteran Black_Tiger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sik View Post
    We went over this before and the only thing we managed to get is make Melf create more sections, not less. That's how we got Developer's Den, which only ended up making things worse as new homebrew got even less visibility than before by pushing them into a subsection of the section that was originally meant to hold them in the first place.

    And also let's be honest, homebrew is starting to feel more like a fad. People will be way more excited about a color hack or a balance hack of an existing game from the '90s than over some new game for which they have no nostalgia at all.
    It depends on the console. The Mega Drive already got hubdreds of solid games that make decent use of the hardware.

    Homebrew productions that make good use of the potential of pre-8-bit gen console hardware continue to gain momentum.
    Quote Originally Posted by year2kill06
    everyone knows nintendo is far way cooler than sega just face it nintendo has more better games and originals

  7. #11197
    Toejam is a wiener. SEGA-Jorge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Tiger View Post
    Discord sucks because it's a glorified chatroom. You can't document and easily search through priceless info like you can on a message board.

    Revisionism and historical documentation slipping away was already bad enough. Soon there won't be enough people who know much about classic gaming to even have substantial discussions.

    Meanwhile new games for classic consoles will still come and go in order to fill collectors' shelves.
    I think discord is great for discussion, sharing videos, info, etc. We also can pin stuff. That being said, I think our Sega-16 discord should work together with the forum. Hardware and software stuff needs to have a home, and for the most part, the way we've gathered stuff here is pretty helpful. A lot of the hardware and repair stuff has been really helpful to tons of visitors, and I can't tell you how many times I've had a question about a game/game's mechanics and found stuff here. Granted, it's only for Sega stuff, but it's helpful. I've tried to collect my stuff here, and there are absolutely times that my info have appeared somewhere else, or I've had a question about a game I used to play, and run into posts by ME that documented all the stuffs. We have good content here, we just need to have our separate elements working together. Twitter/Discord/YT (if that ever happens)/main site/forum.

    If we can have all the separate entities each doing their jobs, they'll have content.

    Also, information about these games isn't going anywhere. It's all here, on YT, on Sega Retro, etc. There's plenty of information and people that know and share it. We should be more concerned that people don't give a sh*t about that info. Collectors care more about the games as items, than actual games, so you have people that review/comment on games, and know very little about the games within their historical context, at a competitive level, as alternatives to arcade/console rival options, etc. We have collectors cataloguing our knowledge base for these games, and as a result, that base of knowledge is rather limited in regard to technical and design details. I have entire score attack threads with literally, the only info on those games on the entirety of the internet, and they get zero traction. It's because no one cares. Collector's collect. Worse off, emulation (not that I have anything against it) makes it so that new players get shotgun blasts of options from within the existing library of each retro console. They don't tend to explore those titles they are spending time with very much, and as a result, we have new vintage game enthusiasts that know next to nothing about a large range of games.

    How many collectors went ham collecting Renovation titles, but know absolutely nothing about the actual games themselves? That's like the majority of the existing collector/retro enthusiast base.

    I guess what bums me out is that a lot of these games have so much to offer, and we lose that by not talking about it, sharing it, and making it part of the vintage gaming experience. The roots of console gaming are found in the 3rd/4th/5th generations of console gaming. And we kinda don't focus, as a community, on some of those aspects. Currently, YT, Podcasts, and Forums are the best way to gather this info, in my opinion. Outside dedicated sites to specific titles, these are our best options.
    Last edited by SEGA-Jorge; 11-09-2020 at 12:43 PM.

  8. #11198
    Nameless One Zeus's Avatar
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    Combine forums (Genesis,32x, Sega CD and Genesis home-brew). Get rid of dead forums like Sega Arcade and SG-1000. Simplify everything and centralize conversation.

  9. #11199
    Raging in the Streets Thunderblaze16's Avatar
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    Well...even though I honestly don't come here as often as I use to (military life) and if the site does get to the point it has to be shut down.

    I'll still continue to visit here till that day comes.
    Gentlemen...,It's been an absolute pleasure knowing you all since the beginning.
    Last edited by Thunderblaze16; 11-10-2020 at 07:44 AM.
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  10. #11200
    Master of Shinobi
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    I think people gravitate to this thread because it's the biggest scandal this community has ever seen. Who doesn't want to read about the drama? I know I do! Plus, there's been a ton of technical discussion here on what the Mega Drive can and cannot do. I never get tired of that, just like how I enjoy reading about all the programming tricks that were used to make various effects in other games. Finally, this thread has been a masterclass in how not to do project management -- it's prompted me to go back and re-read my copy of the Mythical Man-Month and marvel at the similarities.

    I hope this doesn't get archived or locked because this remains the best source of information for bringing Fonzie to justice. I would love to see him get frog marched into a courtroom and have to answer for why he blew the pre-order money on crap instead of just making a game.

    Also I did not think the site had slowed down that much, everything is just split over more subforums now. But the group is getting older, people have jobs and families now, so it's understandable if they aren't posting as frequently. I hope this place never shuts down though. I like this format way better than Facebook or Discord.

  11. #11201
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingOutrunner Stifu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peido View Post
    I think that the trouble that all new users must go through to become active also helps to the lack of activity on the forum.
    True. That was a long and tedious process for me.

  12. #11202
    Toejam is a wiener. SEGA-Jorge's Avatar
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    I think there is a system Melf and the other admins use to accept new users. I've reached out to Melf to allow me to help out, but there's been no response/interest in that. I'm always open to help out around here, though.

  13. #11203
    Outrunner stika's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post
    At the time of the Project Y's and other bs announcements, we didn't have the plethora of better options we have today though.
    The alternative was SFT which had released a couple of old Taiwanese RPGs ridden with bugs, poor packaging and amateur shipment (including some noticeable delays).

    I can understand people supporting WM back then; but nowadays it just makes no sense.

    If you're craving for more MD games, go donate to SGDK and buy games made by decent people such as Sik and Matt Phillips.
    Completely agreed with this. Modern MegaDrive games have raised the bar quite a bit and a result, Pier Solar and Paprium are no longer impressive.

    This doesn't take away from how influencial they were mind you, just that the projects themselves aren't as awe-inspiring as they once were.
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  14. #11204
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    Quote Originally Posted by stika View Post
    Completely agreed with this. Modern MegaDrive games have raised the bar quite a bit and a result, Pier Solar and Paprium are no longer impressive.

    This doesn't take away from how influencial they were mind you, just that the projects themselves aren't as awe-inspiring as they once were.
    Piersolar and piersolar hd have been influencial because they exist since 2010 and 2014. Until now, paprium doesnt exist.

  15. #11205
    Master of Shinobi
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    The more time that passes the more I've realized how much Pier Solar and Paprium have in common. Pier Solar looks very impressive, because it has A+ sprite work, lots of colors, that cool Mode 7-like effect, plus a soundtrack you can play on the cart or a CD. In screenshots and video clips it looks like a commercial game from 1995. Then I get into the gameplay itself.... and all of a sudden it feels like a homebrew title again. It doesn't play like a top tier RPG from the 16-bit era, even though it looks like one. This isn't a criticism on the team by any means, this was their first big project and they did a lot better than many people had expected. And most of the issues were addressed in the HD ports.

    With Paprium it's like all of the above but worse. The background artwork is gorgeous and the soundtrack is top notch. In screenshots it looks like it will be a big hit -- but the gameplay is literally non-existent. I just hope those assets can be re-used in another project. Every contract has limitations and if Fonzie hasn't paid the artists and composers then he should be the one in breach of contract.

    Mega Drive development has come a long way in the past decade and thankfully we now have several developers who understand that gameplay is what counts, not graphics.

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