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Thread: Sega-16's Top 100 Mega Drive/Genesis games (please read post #5 before posting)

  1. #256
    The Gentleman Thief Baloo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post
    That's not my fault.
    Actually, it only goes to reinforce the importance of the weighted lists.



    Not, it didn't.
    We have three Road Rash entries though. And three NHL games.



    Obscure?
    It was released both in US and Japan for the PCE and MD. Besides also being an arcade game.



    It was release in US, EU, JP.



    US, Japan, Europe, Brazil.



    "The home version of Rolling Thunder 2 was well received. Its mostly highly positive review scores included 92% from Computer & Video Games,[2] 23/25 from GamePro,[3] 85% from Mean Machines,[4] 90% from MegaTech,[5] and, retrospectively, 8/10 from Sega-16."
    From wikipedia.



    It was released in cartridges both by Columbus Circle and SLG.
    I'd say it's as much as a "nerd pick" as Xeno Crisis, which made the list.



    I don't think it's obscure. High scores across the board, release in US in 1993.
    A game like Battle Mania Daiginjou made the final list.



    More like 15 games after the corrections.



    Shmups are nerd games as much as US sports titles are jocks' choices.



    Do we really need 2 Micro Machines games, 3 NHL games, 3 Road Rash games and one horrible port of 8-bit games though?
    I don't think so.

    I dare to compare:
    10 Unlisted games 10 Listed Games
    Elemental Master NHL Hockey / EA Hockey
    Street Racer Super Monaco GP
    Splatterhouse 2 Road Rash 3
    Mickey Mania Tiny Toon Adventures: Buster's Hidden Treasure
    Twinkle Tale Sub-Terrania
    Marvel Land NHL 96 / Elitserien 96
    Bio-Hazard Battle Micro Machines 2: Turbo Tournament
    Rolling Thunder 3 Mega Man - The Wily Wars / Rockman Mega World
    Ecco: The Tides of Time Road Rash
    Cool Spot Rock n' Roll Racing
    Fair counterpoints Barone, you've convinced me there are some games on this list that don't belong. I would agree that not all three Road Rash games or three NHL games are worthy of inclusion, but that being said Seingalt had a pretty good weighing system in place, and theoretically a lot of the games you mentioned could have easily been mentioned by one or two users and included. But even then, I'd say 90-95 games on this list are worthy of being on it. But now we are getting into questions of what constitutes a Top 100 list. Is it purely great games that no one has played, great games that most people have played? Hard to say. But you've convinced me a little more that there are some games missing on this list. But I don't think I would say the list itself is flawed or the process was flawed, and would be happy to participate again. I'm sure my opinion will change on my Top 20 in another 5 or 10 years, lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by j_factor View Post
    The Sega Saturn was God's gift to humanity. This is inarguable fact!



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  2. #257
    Mega Driver Hedgehog-in-TrainingMaster of Shinobi Gryson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phantar View Post
    I mentioned in an earlier posts how The German "Sega Magazin", a video game zine officially sanctioned by Sega and only covering Sega consoles, regularly published charts of what readers thought were the best Mega Drive games (or Sega games in general) way into 1998. I recently had another look at these charts and the results were... Interesting, to say the least.
    Could you give some more info about how the lists were created? Did they poll readers? What was the methodology?

    Edit: I realized that Sega Magazin is on Retro CDN, so I looked myself. Here's how the rankings were compiled (via Google translate -- sorry, too long since I studied German )

    "Your opinion is asked! If you're lucky, you can even win a game. Send a postcard on which you write down your five current favorite games with the respective system information from places 1 to 5 to the address on the right. Many Thanks!"

    That kind of polling system is going to heavily favor more recent releases, so I wouldn't really call it a "best of the system" list, but rather a "best currently being played" list. Also, it's an upvote-only methodology (like this thread); there's no way to give a game a negative score if you didn't like it. I'd be interested to know how many people actually voted, and if the list is cumulative or re-compiled every month. It's possible the same group of diehard Dune II fans voted every month, so it stayed at the top for a long time--not necessarily an indication of how widely liked Dune II was, but an indication that it had a hardcore following.

    Regardless, thanks for posting this. It's great to have lists like these. I also like that Landstalker was ranked so high since it got a German translation and all.
    Last edited by Gryson; 03-09-2021 at 11:47 AM.

  3. #258
    Outrunner Splatterhouse5's Avatar
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    It's hard for me to disagree with Barone. I mean, approximately the bottom quarter of the Top 100 were included by no more than 2 voters, and the last handful of spots seem to have gotten in with a solitary vote (by members with maximum rep multiplier points to get those games on the list at all). Hell, Gauntlet 4 (78th on the list) wouldn't have gotten on the list if I didn't choose it with my 20th pick...which wasn't an easy choice, and could easily have been a different choice given another moment in time. I can easily imagine the bottom half of the list playing out pretty differently if we had 10 (or even 20) more picks to choose from.

    I'd also agree that having 3 NHL games on the list is over the top. The inclusion of the original NHL game, in particular, is frankly bizarre since the following games in the series outclass it in every meaningful way. It's just incredibly difficult for me to imagine anyone loving the original game enough to include it in their Top 20 without having played the much better versions of that game that followed (and deserved that pick on the list). I picked NHL 94' on my list, and would have been perfectly fine if the series was simply lumped in together as one pick.

  4. #259
    Mega Driver Hedgehog-in-TrainingMaster of Shinobi Gryson's Avatar
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    So how do we overcome some of the problems being brought up?

    Well, the best but most difficult way would be to have everyone rate every game they've ever played on a 1-10 scale. That solves the problem of "such and such brilliant game isn't on the list because most people haven't played it." Different games will have different numbers of ratings, reflecting that some are more known than others, but with a sufficient number of ratings it shouldn't matter. But that's obviously not going to happen, since there are just too many games out there and not many people will participate.

    Perhaps this is a better way: Reduce the initial pool of games by using a nomination process. Everyone can nominate games that they think are worthy of being in a Top 100, and then once a final list is decided, everyone assigns ratings on a 1-10 scale to every nominated game they've played (and only to the ones they've played). It's still probably too cumbersome with a Top 100, but it could be reduced to a Top 50 or something to make it more manageable.

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    Perhaps if polls were done based on genre? Top 10 lists for Sports Games, Shooters, Platformers etc. Sure, there may be some games where it's not as easy to define the genre, but I think these types of lists are more interesting and would certainly bring more focused conversation and debate. It's hard to say that EA NHL Hockey is a better game than say MUSHA or vice versa. They're just too hard to compare objectively.

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    The Gaming Gangsta Master of Shinobi profholt82's Avatar
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    While these are all fair points, the bottom line seems to be that there are simply not enough members who engaged in the list. Of the 33 members who contributed, I think it speaks volumes about their knowledge of the console that we ended up with the top 100 that we did. And while some of us seem to have quibbles here and there, I think we can all agree that most of the console's best games are represented here. Look no further than 1st place SoR2 which received a top 20 vote from 29 of the 33 voters, which would approximate to roughly 88 out of a 100 voter sample. Regardless of whether anyone thinks that is the console's best game, 88% of us think that it at least deserves a spot among the best.

    With a larger voter pool and/or a bigger list, say each member's top 50, the overall top 100 would perhaps become even more indicative of the 100 best overall games. But with that said, the OP did a phenomenol job of quantifying each vote, and the list we have includes an excellent representation of the console's best games. To dispute that would be silly. I think that we, as a site, should be proud of the list, as even with only 33 voters, the cumulative knowledge produced a list of games that is superior to any other I've seen, be it from a magazine or youtube channel. I think it should be featured in an article on the site, or at least stickied in the forum.
    Last edited by profholt82; 03-09-2021 at 01:34 PM.

  7. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gryson View Post
    That kind of polling system is going to heavily favor more recent releases, so I wouldn't really call it a "best of the system" list, but rather a "best currently being played" list. Also, it's an upvote-only methodology (like this thread); there's no way to give a game a negative score if you didn't like it. I'd be interested to know how many people actually voted, and if the list is cumulative or re-compiled every month. It's possible the same group of diehard Dune II fans voted every month, so it stayed at the top for a long time--not necessarily an indication of how widely liked Dune II was, but an indication that it had a hardcore following.

    Regardless, thanks for posting this. It's great to have lists like these. I also like that Landstalker was ranked so high since it got a German translation and all.
    yeah, it isn't that reliable a polling system and definitely favors newer releases heavily, but it's interesting still. Also, Dune II also shows up on other polls of the same time (for example the one in Mega Fun, which was part of a different publishing house), so it's still an interesting litmus test. I found a source from an interview with the former editor-in-chief (now head of the entire publishing house), who claimed a reader participation of about 40.000-60.000 people. Seems a tad high to me for a special interest mag (population in Germany was about 80 Million at the time), but not impossible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gryson View Post
    So how do we overcome some of the problems being brought up?

    Well, the best but most difficult way would be to have everyone rate every game they've ever played on a 1-10 scale. That solves the problem of "such and such brilliant game isn't on the list because most people haven't played it." Different games will have different numbers of ratings, reflecting that some are more known than others, but with a sufficient number of ratings it shouldn't matter. But that's obviously not going to happen, since there are just too many games out there and not many people will participate.

    Perhaps this is a better way: Reduce the initial pool of games by using a nomination process. Everyone can nominate games that they think are worthy of being in a Top 100, and then once a final list is decided, everyone assigns ratings on a 1-10 scale to every nominated game they've played (and only to the ones they've played). It's still probably too cumbersome with a Top 100, but it could be reduced to a Top 50 or something to make it more manageable.
    Well, it is a difficult situation. What you're suggesting is basically something that would go along the lines of the "curated list" suggestion earlier. But that would be a very time-consuming affair: You'd either have to determine a jury who then provides a selection for everyone else to choose from (and boy of botching and probably at least as much disagreement about certain particular selections than in this thread I would wager if you go that route ). Or you go through several instances of "pre-voting" which would immensely drag out the process, especially when you come to relative obscure games the majority of people have probaly never played (Brian Lara Cricket? Advanced Daisenryaku? Crayon Shin-Chan? Show du Milhao 2? Ok, probably not the latter... ).

    In my opinion though, the situation isn't as bad as it looks, or as some would make it out to be. Yes, the list may be debatable as a Top 100 - which mainly lies in the limited datapool (Especially in the lower ranks, a single mention of a game can already secure it's placement in the list, and it makes non-placement of games people simply forgot about easier). As a Top 20 though, the list is perfectly servicable. Why? Statistics.

    If everyone makes a selection of 20 games, they usually have to think long and hard about every singly entry they wish to make. The Top 3 or 5 games are usually quite easy - the Top 10 would fluctuate harder, but would still be easily accomplished. Top 20 starts to get tricky... a game might make or not make that list depending on mood of the day, something might be forgotten or dropped due to carelessness, and occasionally something slips in just to fill out the list.

    That means though, that the most popular games, the ones people feel the most secure and sure about, are pretty much guaranteed to get mentiones. Those get counted the most, and those - naturally - end up ranking highest. Just compare the Final result table with the Alternative Counting and you might get an idea what I mean: In the top 10 you have almost no fluctiations or differences; in the top 20, these fluctuations are still relatively mild (the four place climb of SoR3 being the most significant outlier, everything else changes by 1 or 2 spots at most). It's below the Top 20 - Incidentally the number of entries every individual voter had to make - that the stronger fluctuations show up. MEaning: If you want to compile a reliable Top 20, and have everyone enter 20 games, then the end result will be most reliable within the first 20 spots of the final list. (There's some actual mathematics behind this which could crunch the actual numbers, but alas, that's not my strong suit).

    So if you would expand the data pool to 30, then the results within the Top 30 would get more reliable as well; but it would also make it harder to make the individual selection; because as I stated before, most people will have a way harder time to come up with a definite personal top 30 than a Top 20.

    Which is why I think Seingalt chose the presentation of the final results quite well, with the Top 20 in more detail, and presenting the Top 10 - where the final results would be the most relaibly definite - boldest.

    Is it a perfect system? Probably not - but it is a very servicable one, AS LONG AS YOU LOOK FOR A GOOD TOP 20, although not necessarily a good Top 100. Frankly, considering we got less than 40 submissions for the poll, I am positively surprised that we got enough different entries to fill out the 100 spots as well as it turned out.
    Last edited by Phantar; 03-09-2021 at 04:21 PM.
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    Mega Driver Hedgehog-in-TrainingMaster of Shinobi Gryson's Avatar
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    Right - I think the concern people are having is that this is called a Top 100 list, but clearly it loses its validity towards the bottom since some games were only getting 1 or 2 votes. It's better to think of it as a Top 20 list.

    My suggestion of nominations and ratings was really in response to the problem that the less known a game is, the less likely it is to appear on the list, even if it's considered one of the greats among a specific group of people. Basically, the list as it is now captures "the 20 most popular games," while doing ratings would capture "the 20 highest rated games."

  9. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gryson View Post
    My suggestion of nominations and ratings was really in response to the problem that the less known a game is, the less likely it is to appear on the list, even if it's considered one of the greats among a specific group of people. Basically, the list as it is now captures "the 20 most popular games," while doing ratings would capture "the 20 highest rated games."
    Well then, that's another dilemma. You could, for example, just go for the highest rated games on Sega-16 then (which has a good coverage, probably the best there is out therem, with only ~170 licensed games missing a review (plus a hard to determine number of unlicensed ones that saw release in one form or another) - and many of those are compilations, so the actual number is certainly lower (too lazy to count them right now ). It would then probably need some culling - for example, only allow games with a rating of 7 or higher for voting (which should make sure - but certainly would not guarantee - that most voters' favorite Genesis games and an objectively good selection pool would be included). Even more culling would be in order after that: Should all NHL games be included, or should games that are just updates of One another with more or less smaller improvements (NBA Jam --> NBA Jam TE; Micro Machines 2 --> Micro Machines '96 or, arguably, NHL Hockey--> NHL Hockey 93/94/95-->NHL Hockey 96/97) be lumped together? Reviewer's individual preference would also be a factor that could potentially lead to problems: Yu Yu Hakusho: Makyo Toitsusen, for example, had originally a review with a perfect 10 for a score. The original reviewer pulled his review; My re-review "just" rates the game as a 9 (since I see some smaller issue that keeps it from getting a 10). Or take the ugly example of Super Thunderblade, which has an original review at 10 (and a Double take that would rate it as low as a 4); most would agree that this game should not be at the top of such a list, but at some point, at least one person though the game was top notch! And then, of course: How do you weigh games that received a 10, a 9, an 8 etc against one another - jury vote, or popular vote?

    Fairest would probably be aggregate rating: Put a list of games together (for example by the methods listed above - a general overall list of 1000+ games would be too exhaustive for that!), then have everyone willing to participate rate the games from 1-5, or 1-10; if you don't know a game, leave no rating at all; and then go through each game, and present the rating as the average that people gave. It would eliminate the problem of a game ranking too high or low based on it's individual review - the public would just not give a game high ratings where the majority agreed it didn't deserve it. But instead there's another problem at play here: If a game receives just 1 vote, and that vote is the highest score possible, that game would top the list; clearly, this isn't an option. And if you demand a "minimum number of votes" for a rating to count, obscure games are, once more, at a massive disadvantage. It's hard to put a proper system like that in place that isn't in some way broken (IMDB or Rotten Tomatoes work on some form of that method, but they only come to halfway reliable results if - again - there is a HUGE data pool to draw ratings from). And of course, there's still a (albeit comparably slim) chance that a 'worthy' game that's still missing a review isn't included.

    Earlier, new user fantat (welcome, by the way!) posted:
    Quote Originally Posted by fantat View Post
    Perhaps if polls were done based on genre? Top 10 lists for Sports Games, Shooters, Platformers etc. Sure, there may be some games where it's not as easy to define the genre, but I think these types of lists are more interesting and would certainly bring more focused conversation and debate. It's hard to say that EA NHL Hockey is a better game than say MUSHA or vice versa. They're just too hard to compare objectively.
    That would be a possible option for culling the list: First make seperate Top tens based on Genre, THEN take only the games that made the top 10 and make THOSE available for an overall top 100 list, where voters could only pick 10 or 20 games from those lists. That would allow for obscurer games to also make the cut and lower the risk that people might simply forget about individual games that, on second thought, they would realize they liked just as much or even more than other titles. Problem there: it would be VERY time consuming, because you would have to run a similar effort that was used in compiling into this list FOR EVERY INDIVIDUAL GENRE and THEN once more for the overall list. And then there are other factors as well (what about Cross-Genre games? How to define a specific genre? Oh, the endless "This game is/isn't an RPG" discussions... etc.) It would be fairer and more precise, but certainly more difficult to realize in a timely fashion I would wager. But it would in all likelihood be better weighted, if a) someone would put in the time and effort to compile these lists, and b) enough people stuck to the process until the very end.


    Like it or not, I'm pretty sure Seingalt's current system is, in light of advantages and disadvantages, still the best; it allows for a list that is at least very reliable in its top quarter or so (and might get weaker towards the bottom, but still with a decent amount of reliability) without having to rely on too many data points, and the only way to easily improve it would be an increase in the overall datapool (either by expanding the number of games that need to be entered or by increasing the number of willing participants, both of which carry certain disadvantages as well). It's basically like Democracy in action; it's certainly not a perfect system, and in certain partial aspects other systems may be better - but on aggregate, if you weigh advantags against disadvantages, it's probably the best system for a user-based (and not expert-based; whatever would constitute such an expert) poll.
    Last edited by Phantar; 03-09-2021 at 04:14 PM. Reason: edited for clarification and adding some links
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  10. #265
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    Some comments on the polling method
    - I asked for (only) a Top 20 list because I thought fewer people would participate if required to submit a longer list (Top 30, Top 50 or even Top 100).
    - The number of participants was far more important to me than the amount of data Iíd get (even though the amount of data is very important to me)
    - I disagree with the notion that a compilation of Top 20 lists will necessarily lead to unreliable results beyond rank 20 and that a Top 100 is only reliable if compiled out of individual Top 100 lists. From a theoretical perspective: letís say someone who knows only 120 games submits a Top 100 list; games towards the end of the list would lack any merit; such long lists are more about availability/familiarity than quality. From a practical perspective: Iíve seen this approach work splendidly with book/film lists e. g. TSPDT Top 1000 list is based mostly on individual Top 10 lists (I'd be insane to ask people for an individual Top 1000 film list)
    - Still considering how many people complained during the poll about a Top 20 being too short (I felt the same way when compiling my own list), I now somewhat regret not having asked for longer lists
    - The 2010 poll had 32 participants and I released only the Top 50 because I felt that some of the games beyond rank 50 were very questionable; I made it a Top 100 this time mainly because members of this forum wanted a Top 100 for a long time.

    Next Poll
    - I would like to do a 2022 edition of the poll (deadline February 28th 2022; release of results: first half of March 2022)
    - For the 2022 edition I intend to ask for a ranked Top 50 list.
    - The 2022 edition is not a new poll but an update to the 2021 poll: If someone doesnít submit a Top 50 list, Iíll include the old Top 20 list of that person; however the 20 highest ranked games of a Top 50 list will receive a higher weighting than those of an old Top 20 list; this way the number of participants canít decrease
    - Please make a new post for your Top 50 list; donít edit your Top 20 list, I think we should preserve the source material of the 2021 poll; Iíll add an extra column to post #4 to link the Top 50 lists


    Rep. Weighting vs. Equal weighting
    For those who havenít seen it yet: The promised Top 100 list with equal weighting is also completed (post #193)
    - the Top 7 are exactly the same on both list
    - there are 8 games that are exclusive to each list
    - a lot of the ranks have changed, but actually the changes are less than what I expected

    Which list do you prefer (personally I think itís quite close)?

    I havenít yet decided whether the 2022 edition should implement rep. weighting again.
    It was an interesting experiment but to me itís not clear that it yielded better results.
    I think giving the highest tier 3-times the voting power of the lowest tier was excessive; if I implement it again the highest tier will only receive double the points of the lowest tier.
    But maybe itís best to drop the feature altogether? Some members clearly resented it and I fear it may have even hurt participation.


    OK, that enough for one post. Maybe some additional comments later.

  11. #266
    Pirate King Phantar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seingalt
    Next Poll
    - I would like to do a 2022 edition of the poll (deadline February 28th 2022; release of results: first half of March 2022)
    - For the 2022 edition I intend to ask for a ranked Top 50 list.
    First of all: Great you want to make this a yearly thing, I heartily approve! An individual Top 50 from everyone might be too excessive though - I would definitely have a very hard time coming up with an appropriate count, which would in all likelihood keep me from participating, and I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be the only one. Maybe 30 instead?


    Rep. Weighting vs. Equal weighting
    For those who havenít seen it yet: The promised Top 100 list with equal weighting is also completed (post #193)
    - the Top 7 are exactly the same on both list
    - there are 8 games that are exclusive to each list
    - a lot of the ranks have changed, but actually the changes are less than what I expected

    Which list do you prefer (personally I think itís quite close)?
    The Rep system should maybe retained as a last-resort tie-breaker, that's definitely a good idea. As for weighting, IDK; like I said, I feel the system is definitely a good method for determining at least a (VERY!) good top 20 if not 25 (and to be honest, I don't think it's bad for a Top100 really, only that it gets weaker towards the bottom), and in that regard, there really aren't many differences. But since many people had problems with that, maybe limit it to a three-tier-rep system (with x1, x1.5 and x2 multipliers)?
    Last edited by Phantar; 03-09-2021 at 04:19 PM.
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    Outrunner Splatterhouse5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gryson View Post
    Right - I think the concern people are having is that this is called a Top 100 list, but clearly it loses its validity towards the bottom since some games were only getting 1 or 2 votes. It's better to think of it as a Top 20 list.
    I'd agree with Baloo that the vast majority of the games on the Top 100 deserve to be there, so I'd personally see the list as more than just a Top 20. For me, it gets slippery at around the last quarter of the list where inclusions are made by one or two voters. I'm of the opinion that a Top 30 or a Top 40 would serve to beefen up a top half of the list that would obviously be included anyway while also leaving enough space on personal lists to include those "well, it's not Top 20, but it should be on a Top 100" picks.

    I actually did make a personal Top 40 list just to curiously see where my picks would go, and saw that 14 of my following 20 picks (21-40) served to strengthen the score of games that were already on the list, while 6 picks would have been new options added to a deeper pool that may have found crossover with other voters.

    For shits and giggles, I'll list my personal picks that could have made a play for the lower half of the Top 100 if our lists were expanded to 40. Plus, a poster had mentioned previously what games weren't on the list that were felt should have been.

    01. Alien 3
    02. Dune: The Battle for Arrakis (or Dune 2)
    03. Robocop vs The Terminator
    04. Pirates! Gold
    05. Skitchin'
    06. Rolling Thunder 3
    07. Phantom 2040
    08. True Lies
    09. Splatterhouse 3

    The first 3 picks were on my original list, but failed to find another like-minded voter. The following 6 picks are ones I would have added had the lists been expanded to 40 (Sorry, no Cool Spot). Although I don't presume that all of these pics would have made the list, I do think that there's a probability that at least a few of them would have made a strong play for a spot on the Top 100. Personally, I think it would have been interesting. Herzog Zwei and Mega Bomberman would have gotten a little push from me in the 21-30 range, and were amazingly close to making my Top 20 to begin with.
    Last edited by Splatterhouse5; 03-09-2021 at 04:23 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phantar View Post
    First of all: Great you want to make this a yearly thing, I heartily approve! An individual Top 50 from everyone might be too excessive though - I would definitely have a very hard time coming up with an appropriate count, which would in all likelihood keep me from participating, and I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be the only one. Maybe 30 instead?
    Thanks!
    To expand to Top 30 was my first idea, too. But it wouldn't make that much of difference.
    You have 356 days to come up with a Top 50 list; it can't be that hard.
    (having said that, I haven't made up my mind on this and will listen to the input of the forum members)


    Quote Originally Posted by Phantar View Post
    The Rep system should maybe retained as a last-resort tie-breaker, that's definitely a good idea.
    I forgot to mention this: Yes, I definitely want to use rep. power for tie-breaking. I'm very glad that the final list hasn't any tied positions.



    Quote Originally Posted by Phantar View Post
    But since many people had problems with that, maybe limit it to a three-tier-rep system (with x1, x1.5 and x2 multipliers)?
    My guess is that for some it's more a matter of principle (undemocratic/elitist/disrespectful to low rep. members) than specific implementation.

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    After playing thru Yu Yu Hakusho a few times I can say I think it is a top 20 game, Id put it at the lower end of my top 20. The main flaw is it doesnt make you face the opponent automatically like most fighters and you have to block with a button instead of holding back. So many great things about this game though. Great move versatility, it does the Fatal Fury dual planes thing better than the port of Fatal Fury, cool fun characters with different play styles, great backgrounds, addicting gameplay with lots of air combos. Seriously fun tearing thru guys with the mini Vegeta character and smacking them around with the whip girl.

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    Quote Originally Posted by profholt82 View Post
    Great info, thanks for posting. It's interesting to get a contemporary perspective from a European source. The vast majority of similar info I've seen over the years has been NA or JPN.

    Regarding the inclusion of Theme Park, that game received a lot of attention in the US as well. It came out at a time when similar amusement park simulation games were all the rage on the PC format, so it was exciting to see a game of the same ilk on the Genesis. I must have rented it nearly a dozen times before receiving it for either Christmas or my birthday in 95 or thereabouts.

    In retrospect, the fact that the game runs as well as it does considering how much is packed into it is a testament to the programming. But that said, when your park gets large, the action can slow down dramatically. Nowadays, I find it better to revisit this game on the 3do or Playstation as a result, but I certainly played an immense amount of it on the Genesis back in the day, and find it to still be very playable and impressive today, it's just that there are better gaming experiences to be had on more powerful hardware.
    Yeah, I guess both Theme Park and Dune II (aka Dune: Battle for Arrakis) suffer the same Problem in retrospect: they are still loads of fun, and technically impressive if you keep the platform in mind. They were also trailblazers in their genres. But these days, not only have these genres evolved, even if you wished to go back 'to the source' so to speak it would be easier and more comfortable to just grab a Dosbox emulator and play the original DOS version with proper mouse support instead, or, if you are a hardware consolero, pick a more powerful, later generation platform version instead. So the people keeping this game in mind these days are usually only gamers who remember having originally played this game when it came out, not the ones who have it a try generations after its heyday. These games are still very impressive and tons of fun when you only keep the Mega Drive/ Genesis platform in mind, but against their DOS originals or later PSX brethren, they still lose.
    Last edited by Phantar; 03-10-2021 at 06:07 AM.
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