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Thread: Sega-16's Top 100 Mega Drive/Genesis games (please read post #5 before posting)

  1. #136
    Hero of Algol
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    Psycho Pinball is damn good.

  2. #137
    The Gaming Gangsta Master of Shinobi profholt82's Avatar
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    I dislike that the lists can include unlicensed after market games. I think that all "best of" lists for a console should be limited to games that were released during a console's lifespan. Call me a purist.

  3. #138
    Master of Shinobi Alianger's Avatar
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    The genesis transcended commercial life cycle
    On a wave of mutilation

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  4. #139
    The Gaming Gangsta Master of Shinobi profholt82's Avatar
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    Hahaha! You worded that so eloquently. Very nice. But that said, you can say the same thing about nearly every major game console (and some much more than the Genesis) as the homebrew scene has been alive and well for ages. And, of course, there are some very good ones out there. But that doesn't mean I think that they should be included in the console's all time greatest game lists.

    I think allowing homebrew and unlicensed after market games dilutes the final list because so many of these games are region dependent or had tiny print runs, and many gamers do not play after market games. While high profile games by Watermelon and the like buck that trend, they are very much the exception to that generalization. So instead of everyone having to select from the same equal pool of the games which were released for the console during its life span, it becomes a free for all where a minority of gamers who are into hacks and homebrew add them, and are then averaged and compiled into the overall list. But again, this is just my opinion. Perhaps I'm overthinking it, and just being a purist.

  5. #140
    Master of Shinobi Alianger's Avatar
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    Sure and it gets weird comparing games with such a gap between them in development time, tools used, references from previous games, etc.

    I don't think it's significant enough to worry about after browsing the thread though I could be wrong. Not a fan of rep power influencing the list personally (which could have an effect on this) but it's not my project.
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  6. #141
    Hero of Algol
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    Quote Originally Posted by profholt82 View Post
    Hahaha! You worded that so eloquently. Very nice. But that said, you can say the same thing about nearly every major game console (and some much more than the Genesis) as the homebrew scene has been alive and well for ages. And, of course, there are some very good ones out there. But that doesn't mean I think that they should be included in the console's all time greatest game lists.

    I think allowing homebrew and unlicensed after market games dilutes the final list because so many of these games are region dependent or had tiny print runs, and many gamers do not play after market games. While high profile games by Watermelon and the like buck that trend, they are very much the exception to that generalization. So instead of everyone having to select from the same equal pool of the games which were released for the console during its life span, it becomes a free for all where a minority of gamers who are into hacks and homebrew add them, and are then averaged and compiled into the overall list. But again, this is just my opinion. Perhaps I'm overthinking it, and just being a purist.
    The point you bring is interesting, though I disagree with your opinion.

    Games such as Panorama Cotton and Eliminate Down were released officially back then but in such small quantities that some recent homebrew/indie releases actually are more "available" than those games ever were.
    I lot of the region exclusives are rare and quite frankly only accessible nowadays due to modern means such as ebay, ROM sharing and flashcarts.

    I get the purist approach but it's quite flawed too.
    Games officially released in 1996, 1997 and 1998 maybe should also be cut if you consider that during 1995 Sega pretty much pulled the plug on the platform.


    Regarding the reputation thing, I've read some complaints here and there.
    What bothers me is the opposite. I have 188 rep points and I get the same weight of 50 points?
    Sorry, but I do feel like I do know the library much better than whoever is in that 50 points range and infinitely better than whoever started posting here just the other day.

    Over the years, I've seen countless times situations where people just judged the games by superficial reviews or super quick gameplays.
    I think the use of the weighted list is to value experience on both playing and discussing these games time and time again.
    I'm aware that some people do play a lot of MD games but don't post here often, but then again, this is a Sega-16 list. I think it should reflect the views of the community and having been here for longer and discussing more does make a difference in how I see and value certain games.

  7. #142
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-Training Skullkid's Avatar
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    Pretty simple solution, if aftermarket game gets ranked number 10 for example you can just remove it and boost every game lower than 10 by 1 rank.

  8. #143
    Master of Shinobi SpaceFlea's Avatar
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    Here is my attempt at a list:

    1) Shining Force II
    2) Thunder Force III
    3) Streets of Rage 2
    4) Rockman Mega World
    5) Alien Soldier
    6) Mega Turrican
    7) Phantasy Star IV
    8) Mutant League Football
    9) Jungle Strike
    10) Contra: Hard Corps
    11) Light Crusader
    12) Mercs
    13) Eliminate Down
    14) General Chaos
    15) Landstalker
    16) Sonic 2
    17) Gaiares
    18) Golden Axe
    19) Vectorman
    20) Road Rash II

    This is really difficult limiting it to 20, so here's a few more.

    21) Lightening Force
    22) Shinobi III
    23) Ranger-X
    24) Sonic
    25) Gleylancer

    Damn, there's still a few others I feel bad about leaving off the list. I don't like any of this... It hurts. There are games I thought I'd fit into the top 20 that didn't even make 25.
    Be Attitude For Gains!

  9. #144
    Sports Talker Sarge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post
    Regarding the reputation thing, I've read some complaints here and there.
    What bothers me is the opposite. I have 188 rep points and I get the same weight of 50 points?
    Sorry, but I do feel like I do know the library much better than whoever is in that 50 points range and infinitely better than whoever started posting here just the other day.

    Over the years, I've seen countless times situations where people just judged the games by superficial reviews or super quick gameplays.
    I think the use of the weighted list is to value experience on both playing and discussing these games time and time again.
    I'm aware that some people do play a lot of MD games but don't post here often, but then again, this is a Sega-16 list. I think it should reflect the views of the community and having been here for longer and discussing more does make a difference in how I see and value certain games.
    Well, I definitely get your point, but if I may play devil's advocate for a bit - just because a person has only occasionally posted here (oh, hai) doesn't mean they don't have a high knowledge level of the system. But I think your statement that this is really a "Sega-16" list mitigates that issue. I do agree that having randos weigh in could be an issue, especially if this is supposed to gauge what Sega-16 thinks, so I reckon I'm just happy to participate at all.

    I am still discovering the occasional gem, though. I'd never given Ranger X a real shot until last year, and once I got used to the odd control scheme, I found it really excellent. I really need to buy a copy of it now for the collection.
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  10. #145
    Road Rasher Night Driver's Avatar
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    Actually, N/M.
    Last edited by Night Driver; 02-11-2021 at 11:00 PM.

  11. #146
    VA1LT CHIP ENABLED Master of Shinobi OverDrone's Avatar
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    1) Thunder Force IV
    2) Streets of Rage 2
    3) Alien Soldier
    4) Fire Shark
    5) Revenge of Shinobi
    6) Shadow Dancer
    7) Gunstar Heroes
    8) Contra Hard Corps
    9) Eliminate Down
    10) Slap Fight MD
    11) Streets of Rage
    12) Castlevania Bloodlines
    13) Darius II/Sagaia
    14) Ranger X
    15) Mega Turrican
    16) Pulseman
    17) Dragons Fury
    18) Panorama Cotton
    19) Marble Madness (Tengen)
    20) Street Fighter II Special Champion Edition

    Yeah, that was tough.

  12. #147
    VA1LT CHIP ENABLED Master of Shinobi OverDrone's Avatar
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    After my top 4, the order could honestly be anything really.

    Some comments:

    I do think Gunstar is better than Contra HC if only because the patterns are not static.

    Fire Shark is sublime on the higher difficulty and by Toaplans own admission the game they wanted to make (they were told to make the arcade original as hard as it was to make coin).

    In many ways, I think the Darius II port is the same way, making for a more approachable and free wheeling remix of the original game. Butter smooth controls and a sublime learning curve lead to a smooth accendency to the 1CC. Not as flashy as other Horis on the machine, but perhaps the best balanced of all of them.

    Alien Soldier is probably the most sophisticated 16-bit action game period in terms of gameplay imo.

    More to follow.
    Last edited by OverDrone; 02-12-2021 at 07:54 AM.

  13. #148
    Hero of Algol
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    Well, I definitely get your point, but if I may play devil's advocate for a bit - just because a person has only occasionally posted here (oh, hai) doesn't mean they don't have a high knowledge level of the system. But I think your statement that this is really a "Sega-16" list mitigates that issue. I do agree that having randos weigh in could be an issue, especially if this is supposed to gauge what Sega-16 thinks, so I reckon I'm just happy to participate at all.
    The way I worded it certainly sounded arrogant as hell but maybe what I meant to say was that from when I had accumulated 50 rep points to now I feel like I learned a ton more.
    Obviously, there are exceptions and your mileage may vary depending on how often you voice your options or just lurk.

    Anyway, I felt like voicing my opinion since I saw some posts on the opposite side of the spectrum and I wanted to show that I pretty much support the OP's approach here.

    Also, I don't care that much if the games I selected will make the final list or not.
    Most of my enjoyment in this thread comes from seeing other members' lists, especially when they comment on them.
    There's a lot of great, insightful arguments to back up the "not so common" choices and I like to read that a lot.

    I think no criteria will be perfect/appeal in every aspect to everyone.
    And I believe the lists would benefit more from discussing about the games selected than discussing about the rules proposed by the OP.



    Quote Originally Posted by OverDrone View Post
    1) Thunder Force IV
    2) Streets of Rage 2
    3) Alien Soldier
    4) Fire Shark
    5) Revenge of Shinobi
    6) Shadow Dancer
    7) Gunstar Heroes
    8) Contra Hard Corps
    9) Eliminate Down
    10) Slap Fight MD
    11) Streets of Rage
    12) Castlevania Bloodlines
    13) Darius II/Sagaia
    14) Ranger X
    15) Mega Turrican
    16) Pulseman
    17) Dragons Fury
    18) Panorama Cotton
    19) Marble Madness (Tengen)
    20) Street Fighter II Special Champion Edition

    Yeah, that was tough.
    May I provoke you to advocate Panorama Cotton and Ranger X, please?


    Quote Originally Posted by OverDrone View Post
    I do think Gunstar is better than Contra HC if only because the patterns are not static.
    Sorry, what exactly do you mean by that?


    Quote Originally Posted by OverDrone View Post
    Fire Shark is sublime on the higher difficulty and by Toaplans own admission the game they wanted to make (they were told to make the arcade original as hard as it was to make coin).
    Exactly.
    Fire Shark is amazing for how consistent it is, I considered adding it to my list.


    Quote Originally Posted by OverDrone View Post
    In many ways, I think the Darius II port is the same way, making for a more approachable and free wheeling remix of the original game. Butter smooth controls and a sublime learning curve lead to a smooth accendency to the 1CC. Not as flashy as other Horis on the machine, but perhaps the best balanced of all of them.
    The devs did say the arcade version had a last minute difficulty increase enforced by Taito so that it would generate more revenue for the arcade owners.
    Arcade Darius II is considered a unbalanced game, especially due to the player's ship slow speed when compared to enemies' and their projectiles.

    MD Darius II is awesome and more balanced but two things still annoy me quite a bit: a lot of the backgrounds took a major hit (too much recycling, poor palettes, missing effects, etc.) and when the ship is fully upgraded you have both slowdown and visibility issues.
    And if you die later in the game, you're fucked.

  14. #149
    Mega Driver Hedgehog-in-TrainingMaster of Shinobi Gryson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post
    The way I worded it certainly sounded arrogant as hell but maybe what I meant to say was that from when I had accumulated 50 rep points to now I feel like I learned a ton more.
    Obviously, there are exceptions and your mileage may vary depending on how often you voice your options or just lurk.

    Anyway, I felt like voicing my opinion since I saw some posts on the opposite side of the spectrum and I wanted to show that I pretty much support the OP's approach here..
    We're probably thinking about this too much, but anyway :

    I agree with what you're saying - I think the point of this thread is a bit different than "What are your top 20 favorite games?" For that scenario, basically anything goes - just list what you like and who cares if it's completely subjective.

    For this thread, I think the intent is to combine our (hopefully above average?) knowledge of the console's library to come to a consensus about what might be more objectively called "the top." So hopefully, anyone providing a list has played (or is at least familiar) with many of the titles in the library. Favoring people with higher rep gets at that - they're more likely to be more familiar with the library.

    Also, although the OP didn't really lay out objective criteria for ranking titles (that would probably get too complicated and scare people off of posting their list), I think it's good to have some self-imposed criteria to avoid as much as possible the reason "I played this game a lot as a kid so I'm including it in my list." Although that aspect is fine for a "favorites list", it doesn't really get at what this thread is about.

    Another issue is that, yeah, there are more than a few people on this board that like "kusoge" (including me) - the more familiar you are with a console's library, the more you seek out the obscure awful titles for the joy of seeing how awful they are. Sword of Sodan (brought up earlier in the thread) is an example of this. But I don't think including those kinds of titles really fits with the point of the thread (hard to imagine by what objective criteria Sword of Sodan is not an awful game, even if it can be enjoyable).

    Well, anyway, that's just my take on it and I might be wrong.

    Ultimately, this thread is a brilliant idea because there are probably few people more knowledgeable about the Mega Drive library than the posters here, and it's great to be able to generate a list of what holds up 25 years after the console's time.

    If you haven't posted a list yet, please do so!

  15. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by profholt82 View Post
    I think allowing homebrew and unlicensed after market games dilutes the final list because so many of these games are region dependent or had tiny print runs, and many gamers do not play after market games. While high profile games by Watermelon and the like buck that trend, they are very much the exception to that generalization. So instead of everyone having to select from the same equal pool of the games which were released for the console during its life span, it becomes a free for all where a minority of gamers who are into hacks and homebrew add them, and are then averaged and compiled into the overall list.
    If this were about the 32X or another console with a very limited library I would agree with your reasoning but referring to "the same equal pool of games" when talking about the Mega Drive library seems to me quite misleading. Who knows the complete library? I go out on a limb and allege that even Barone is not familiar with all 900 officially released games (this number comes from chilledís main list) .

    When the high profile after market releases are discussed in the forum the appraisals are usually overwhelmingly positive but it sometimes seems hard to distinguish whether people are genuine or just polite (not wanting to discourage the development of homebrew games). So how do these games really stack up against the best on the console?

    At the moment only one homebrew/after market game would make the Top 100.
    Last edited by Seingalt; 02-13-2021 at 07:40 AM.

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