Quantcast

Page 15 of 19 FirstFirst ... 5111213141516171819 LastLast
Results 211 to 225 of 284

Thread: Sega-16's Top 100 Mega Drive/Genesis games (please read post #5 before posting)

  1. #211
    Six Button Shooter Hedgehog-in-TrainingWildside Expert Cafeman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    170
    Rep Power
    12

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by profholt82 View Post
    Sheesh. Different strokes for different strokes, my man. I'll speak to the quality of two of the games which received your broad stroke put downs.
    Well-put defense of 2 fantastic Genesis games - MUSHA and SMGP. These are both top-20 Genesis games in my house so I felt compiled to pen a brief reply.

    The buzz about MUSHA had already been long established before Mark/CGR did one of his videos about it. Is CGR supposed to have been a big influence on opinion? Anyway, I've played nearly all the classic NA Genesis shmups but I love the gameplay and motif of MUSHA and other Compile shooters the most. Well done, fun, and impressive use of the Genesis architecture!

    SMGP was so good, it spoiled me (its sequel is just as good but I prefer the 1st) . I don't enjoy ANY Genesis racers as much, with the possible exception of Virtua Racing and Super Hang On (also a maligned game by some members here). BITD, I couldn't believe SEGA gave us so many tracks. The sense of speed is great, and I love the rivals and teams. My only complaint ... the password system.


    Quote Originally Posted by Spendle View Post
    I'm surprised Cool Spot hasn't made the top 100. Maybe I'm biased?
    These top 100 games are comprised of everybody's top 20 entries right? I imagine Cool Spot is enjoyed by many but doesn't quite slip into that difficult top-20 category. I love game, the music, the cute animation.

  2. #212
    Master of Shinobi Mega Drive Bowlsey's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    2,361
    Rep Power
    65

    Default

    I too would like to join the defence of Super Monaco GP. I would argue that, graphics and physics aside perhaps, the amount of detail and depth the game (and it's excellent sequel) offered for the time was only really rivalled and surpassed by the superb F1 games developed by Psygnosis for the PS1 many years later. I mean you didn't even need to be interested or really give a shit about F1 in real life to enjoy Super Monaco. It was just fun to play and I'm not exactly the biggest fan of racing games in the world. Admittedly I'm really crap at playing the game today, but I can remember having a lot of fun with it as a kid and I can understand why it's a loved Mega Drive title for many.

  3. #213
    Hero of Algol
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    8,104
    Rep Power
    189

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by profholt82 View Post
    I'd venture to say that most Genesis shoot em up fans were familiar with MUSHA long before youtube videos came along.
    Not really.
    The US version of the game didn't have a big run, to begin with.
    It was mostly sought after by shmup hardcores before the CGR review.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cafeman View Post
    The buzz about MUSHA had already been long established before Mark/CGR did one of his videos about it. Is CGR supposed to have been a big influence on opinion?
    Factually wrong:
    https://www.sega-16.com/forum/showth...l=1#post430531

    The US copies were always a bit pricey due to the fact that aren't that many of them but, regarding CGR, we had this discussion here at the time it happened.
    The prices were rocketed right after the CGR reviews.
    Before CGR's departure to his own platform, some of his reviews had MILLIONS of views (his Hang On SMS review had around 10 million views at some point, something unthinkable these days). The MUSHA review really showcased the game for a much larger audience for the first time.
    So yes, he used to have a big influence both on opinion and price of the games.
    And, no, MUSHA wasn't so popular before it. There aren't even enough US copies to back that claim.


    I think "broad stroke put down" isn't a fair assessment of what I said about the game either. I didn't say the game is bad.
    I just said there are better shooters on the system, which is not an absurd statement by any means.
    Games like TFIV and Fire Shark use to make the shmups forum top lists far more regularly than MUSHA.
    It's a very good game, with good music, good graphics and easy to pick up as you noticed.
    I just don't consider it a holy grail. If that is "broad stroke put down", then OK.


    Quote Originally Posted by profholt82 View Post
    And while Super Monaco GP may not be to your taste, it has more depth than even any Saturn racer that I can think of. More tracks, more cars and teams, multiple seasons, the game was an embarrassment of riches for Genesis owners in 1989. When I got the game in the early 90s, I'd never experienced that much depth in a racing game before. It was revolutionary for the home video game market. Perhaps the physics aren't to your taste, I don't know why you consider it awful, but I love the game, and have put countless hours into it over the years.
    The game was released in 1990 for the Mega Drive, not 1989.
    But I won't argue that at the time it had deeper game modes than mostly any racing games on consoles.
    That's a good point you made.

    However, following the OP's statement, I'm trying to judge things based on their actual quality, not on nostalgia or how good they were compared to the rest upon release.
    The physics, gameplay depth and attention to detail (track courses, for an example, are largely different than what they actually were) are all far inferior to those of Fastest 1 and F1 Hero MD.

    Why do I consider Super Monaco GP awful?
    - The track design is really, really poor.
    While the HUD map shows you the real track map filled with hairpin turns and whatnot, the actual gameplay is far from that.
    Most corners are mid/high speed ones despite lots of them being low speed ones in the actual circuit.
    A lot of the "uniqueness" of each track is lost. If you learn how to play one/two tracks really well, you can finish the game quite easily.
    This, for an example, is one of the major reasons why Super Hang-On has much deeper gameplay. You have to learn the tracks and each harder corner really well.
    This is also true for the other two F1 games I cited.

    - The grid is made of generic clone cars. It looks nothing like a F1 grid.
    Again, both F1 games I cited take care of this.
    Fastest 1 even has a different engine sound for each engine model.

    - Weather modeling is a joke, mostly a palette change and nothing else.

    - No actual tire wear/grip modeling.

    I also think both the sound effects and color use are quite poor, but those are minor annoyances compared to the other issues.

    The career elements are really good for the time but it doesn't change how poor the actual gameplay is.
    Ayrton Senna's Super Monaco GP II is a tad better but still pretty poor in the aspects I cited above.

    Both Fastest 1 and F1 Hero MD deliver a lot more.
    On the SNES, Nigel Mansell's World Championship Racing is quite similar on the arcade take it has but also far superior in all aspects I highlighted and the simulation mode give it a lot more depth.
    Last edited by Barone; 03-05-2021 at 06:17 PM.

  4. #214
    Mega Driver Hedgehog-in-TrainingMaster of Shinobi Gryson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    1,367
    Rep Power
    61

    Default

    This talk about shoot-'em-ups got me curious so I consulted my favorite reference - the reader review ranking from the Japanese magazine Beep! Mega Drive. This is the best (probably only) good reference for what users actually thought of games when they were released. It's based on tens of thousands of votes each month from users (each magazine included a postcard you could fill out and mail in with your ratings of whatever game on a scale of 1-10).

    Here are the shoot-'em-ups that received a cumulative score > 7.0 out of 10 (what I would consider 'good'). The list also includes Mega CD and 32X games (I didn't include those here), and in total there are 520 games (the lowest being Sword of Sodan with a rating of 2.7715). The final ranking was printed in September 1995.

    Top Mega Drive Shoot-'Em-Ups in Japan as Voted by Users
    24. Battle Mania Daiginjo
    32. Thunder Force IV
    37. Slap Fight
    40. Super Fantasy Zone
    54. MUSHA
    62. Thunder Force III
    64. Grind Stormer
    94. Battle Mania
    102. Steel Empire
    113. Panorama Cotton
    147. Fire Shark
    157. Twinkle Tale
    180. Afterburner II
    198. Darius II
    200. Zero Wing
    203. Bio-Hazard Battle
    206. Vapor Trail
    210. Elemental Master
    215. Gley Lancer
    217. Gynoug / Wings of Wor
    234. Granada
    269. Eliminate Down

    I guess I'll also post the Top 20 MD games to see how they compare with the results of this thread. I'll filter out the Mega CD and 32X games and re-number the MD games.

    Top Mega Drive Games in Japan as Voted by Users
    1. Yu Yu Hakusho: Makyo Toitsusen
    2. Phantasy Star IV
    3. Langrisser II
    4. Advanced Daisenryaku
    5. Lord Monarch
    6. Gunstar Heroes
    7. Dyna Brothers 2
    8. Hybrid Front
    9. Shining Force
    10. Puyo Puyo
    11. Monster World IV
    12. Sonic & Knuckles
    13. Battle Mania Daiginjo
    14. Gauntlet
    15. Streets of Rage 2
    16. Alien Soldier
    17. Party Quiz Mega Q
    18. Jano Toryumon
    19. Thunder Force IV
    20. Sonic the Hedgehog 2

    Wow - more than half the list was never released in North America.

  5. #215
    Road Rasher
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Age
    38
    Posts
    309
    Rep Power
    27

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gryson View Post
    Top Mega Drive Games in Japan as Voted by Users
    1. Yu Yu Hakusho: Makyo Toitsusen
    2. Phantasy Star IV
    3. Langrisser II
    4. Advanced Daisenryaku
    5. Lord Monarch
    6. Gunstar Heroes
    7. Dyna Brothers 2
    8. Hybrid Front
    9. Shining Force
    10. Puyo Puyo
    11. Monster World IV
    12. Sonic & Knuckles
    13. Battle Mania Daiginjo
    14. Gauntlet
    15. Streets of Rage 2
    16. Alien Soldier
    17. Party Quiz Mega Q
    18. Jano Toryumon
    19. Thunder Force IV
    20. Sonic the Hedgehog 2
    These guys were really into strategy games.
    Interesting stuff! Thanks for posting this!
    I linked your post to the index.

  6. #216
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingWildside Expert RvR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Posts
    203
    Rep Power
    10

    Default

    Not surprised Japan loves Battlemania lol Pretty awesome that they voted a fighting game as #1, and its one Ive never ever heard of! I know what Ill be playing tomorrow for my Sunday gaming sesh.

  7. #217
    Pirate King Phantar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Munich, Germany
    Age
    40
    Posts
    4,468
    Rep Power
    80

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RvR View Post
    Not surprised Japan loves Battlemania lol Pretty awesome that they voted a fighting game as #1, and its one Ive never ever heard of! I know what Ill be playing tomorrow for my Sunday gaming sesh.
    Definitely try it, it's great! It's by Treasure (of Gunstar Heroes Fame), so that might clue you in about the level of graphical quality, and it even has a proper, four-player-simultaneous-mode, which as far as I can tell was (and to some degree still is) quite unique as far as fighting games go. It suffers the occasional slowdown, bit it's great fun . (It's also a licensed game based on a popular anime, so I am not surprised it ranks high on a Japanese list. Number One though? That's a bit of a surprise).
    The funny thing about an oxymoron is, even if you remove the ox, there'll always be a moron. The Question Remains: Y?

  8. #218
    Pirate King Phantar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Munich, Germany
    Age
    40
    Posts
    4,468
    Rep Power
    80

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Seingalt View Post
    These guys were really into strategy games.
    Interesting stuff! Thanks for posting this!
    I linked your post to the index.
    I'd definitely take this list with a great deal of salt though. Let's not forget that the Genesis wasn't as popular in Japan as in the rest of the world, and that there are lots of cultural differences at play as well. From a western hemisphere perspective, this list seems odd in places ... A Mahjong game (Jano Toryumon) in the Top 20 at no. 18? A party quiz game at 17? (I've had a look at it, we're not exactly talking about a 16-bit equivalent to Mario party or Buzz here. I am a guy who loves the occasional Jackbox or Buzz session, but those kind of games rarely would show up as top contenders for any platform). Gauntlet IV at 14? I mean it's fun, especially in 4-way multiplayer, but it's neither a gameplay revelation nor a technical showcase.

    Then again I'm a guy who's put Sensible Soccer as his number 10 pick (and I stand by it); so I certainly won't complain too much. There are definitely different tastes and preferences at play here.
    Last edited by Phantar; 03-07-2021 at 07:00 AM.
    The funny thing about an oxymoron is, even if you remove the ox, there'll always be a moron. The Question Remains: Y?

  9. #219
    Mega Driver Hedgehog-in-TrainingMaster of Shinobi Gryson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    1,367
    Rep Power
    61

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantar View Post
    I'd definitely take this list with a great deal of salt though.
    I'm not sure if you're questioning the authenticity of the list, or the taste of Japanese Mega Drive fans. If the former: let me assure you, the Beep! MD Reader Race is well-established and is the prime example of a well-done audience review system before the internet. The magazine frequently published stats on it, so we can see its scale. Off the top of my head, I know that Puyo Puyo, for example, received 15,000+ reader ratings. Even today, it's rare on Steam or Metacritic to have that high a number of reviews. The editor of the magazine, Youji Kawaguchi, has discussed it in several recent talks and interviews and it really is an invaluable record of history.

    Let's not forget that the Genesis wasn't as popular in Japan as in the rest of the world
    Selling 3.5+ million units is enough to establish a firm market. But we can see this from game sales: 25% of all copies of Gunstar Heroes were sold in Japan, for example.

    From a western hemisphere perspective, this list seems odd in places ... A Mahjong game (Jano Toryumon) in the Top 20 at no. 18?
    There's a reason why the games are rated so high--even if you aren't familiar with them. Jano Toryumon is a work of art, developed by Game Arts (of Lunar / Silpheed fame). When Game Arts developed their mahjong engine in the mid-1980s, it was the first non-cheating 4-player computer mahjong in existence. Former Game Arts president Yoichi Miyaji has discussed the 1.5 years of effort that went into making the AI (here in Japanese, and briefly here in this translation I did recently). Jano Toryumon is really an extension and refinement of this. It's the first game endorsed by and made with the cooperation of the Japan Pro Mahjong League. It features 27 opponents based on real pros, each with a different playing style. It has extensive stat tracking and gives you feedback on how you're playing, what mistakes you're making, and so on. It has a ton of other features, like a diagnostic quiz and a copy of the real pro certification exam. Basically, it's the ultimate mahjong computer experience and far removed from the more common 2-player cheating AI strip mahjong games that filled arcades at the time.

    A party quiz game at 17? (I've had a look at it, we're not exactly talking about a 16-bit equivalent to Mario party or Buzz here. I am a guy who loves the occasional Jackbox or Buzz session, but those kind of games rarely would show up as top contenders for any platform). Gauntlet IV at 14? I mean it's fun, especially in 4-way multiplayer, but it's neither a gameplay revelation nor a technical showcase.
    Party quiz games were very popular in Japanese arcades at the time. Capcom's Quiz & Dragons was one of the best-selling arcade games of 1992. Party Quiz Mega Q was exceptional for supporting 1-5 players (probably the first home quiz game to support 5 players) and having a lot of play modes. This game was also included on the Japanese Mega Drive Mini, indicating its popularity.

    I can't fault Gauntlet IV whatsoever for being on a Top 20 list. It features an excellent, accurate arcade port of the original Gauntlet as well as other, new play modes, AND it supports 4 players! Of course, it began as a fan-made passion project by what would become everyone's favorite developer M2. The game received high ratings at the time from most magazines and shows up in Top 20 lists, so I'm not sure why it would surprise you to be rated high here.

    Honestly, it's hard for me to find fault with any of the games included in that list. They are all solid--the best that the console has to offer, free from the childhood nostalgia that fills most of our lists in this thread

  10. #220
    Pirate King Phantar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Munich, Germany
    Age
    40
    Posts
    4,468
    Rep Power
    80

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gryson View Post
    Honestly, it's hard for me to find fault with any of the games included in that list. They are all solid--the best that the console has to offer, free from the childhood nostalgia that fills most of our lists in this thread
    Oh, I didn't mean to doubt the authenticity from that list, far from it. I am certain it reflects Japanese tastes of the time pretty accurately. What I meant was, it would seem pretty weird to me to put more faith into a top 20 list that is so thoroughly, intrinsically defined by a completely different (read: Japanese) culture than our own. This list is no better or worse than any western one. After all, Mahjong is culturally very significant in Japan, and as you said yourself, party quiz games were very important back then. Well then, these are factors that definitely taint the list then, no more and no less than "childhood nostalgia" does in this thread. I absolutely believe you when you say Jano Toryumon is a fantastic Mahjong game and the best of its time. Same goes for Brian Lara Cricket '96 - it was by far the best cricket game up to that point on any platform, it is immensely accurate when you're interested in cricket, and in terms of quality and of emulating the sport it wasn't surpassed at least for many, many years. It also reviewed pretty great back in the day, at least in Great Britain where people understood the rules of the sport. Yet you won't find it on many best of lists, unless you're both a video game and a Cricket fan (and that overlap is a small market indeed.) /Edit: I looked again and hey, someone did in fact vote for Brian Lara Cricket '96 in this poll. Well wouldn't you know. It wasn't me, but I can get behind that.


    I would say the inclusion of Gauntlet would also say more about it's significance for the Japanese market at the time than in terms of better or worse quality within the console library. Which would be interesting to know more about, when I think about it...

    I don't mean to devalue that list or anything, far from it. It is certainly very interesting, but I don't think it's significantly better or worse than other magazine list from BITD in other regions. I was a subscriber to Sega Magazine, the official magazine for all of Segas consoles in Germany back then, and in the last issue that they still printed a reader best of chart for Mega Drive games in (which was at some point in '97 or '98 I think), it still listed games like Dune, Landstalker and Theme Park, I believe, among the reader's top ten Mega Drive games, two of which don't show up on this top 100 even (I would have to check with the old issues to make sure of that though). Are they better games than our Top100 reflects? Well, at least german readers thought that about a year or two after the console's commercial end-of-life.
    Last edited by Phantar; 03-07-2021 at 02:01 PM.
    The funny thing about an oxymoron is, even if you remove the ox, there'll always be a moron. The Question Remains: Y?

  11. #221
    Road Rasher
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Age
    38
    Posts
    309
    Rep Power
    27

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantar View Post
    /Edit: I looked again and hey, someone did in fact vote for Brian Lara Cricket '96 in this poll. Well wouldn't you know. It wasn't me, but I can get behind that.
    Two people voted for Brian Lara '96 and the game even made the equal-weighted Top 100, if only just.

  12. #222
    Pirate King Phantar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Munich, Germany
    Age
    40
    Posts
    4,468
    Rep Power
    80

    Default

    What, and it pushed out Sensible Soccer AND NBA Jam in turn? I take it all back, BLC96 sucks!!1!oneeleven!11! ( j/k, of course. Like I said I can get behind that, it IS a very good cricket game, probably one of the best console simulations of cricket there is. I prefer fast-paced arcadey sports games, but that's entirely down to personal preference ).
    The funny thing about an oxymoron is, even if you remove the ox, there'll always be a moron. The Question Remains: Y?

  13. #223
    The Gentleman Thief Baloo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    5,705
    Rep Power
    97

    Default

    I feel bad for the person who had Ghostbusters as their #1 overall game and it didnt even make the Top 100...though to be honest I never played the game myself. No shocker that Streets of Rage II and S3&K are the top two games on the system, frankly both are so good that it is hard to say either game isnt deserving of the top spot. Most of the Top Ten are all excellent games.

    However, is anyone else not a huge fan of Revenge of Shinobi? I always thought the game was a little overhyped considering the pace of Joe Musashi in the game. He always moved way too slow for me after playing the likes of Strider, Ninja Gaiden, and Shinobi III, RoS always felt dated in comparison.
    Quote Originally Posted by j_factor View Post
    The Sega Saturn was God's gift to humanity. This is inarguable fact!



    Feedback Thread: http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthr...ack&highlight=

  14. #224
    Master of Shinobi Mega Drive Bowlsey's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    2,361
    Rep Power
    65

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Baloo View Post
    I feel bad for the person who had Ghostbusters as their #1 overall game and it didnt even make the Top 100...though to be honest I never played the game myself. No shocker that Streets of Rage II and S3&K are the top two games on the system, frankly both are so good that it is hard to say either game isnt deserving of the top spot. Most of the Top Ten are all excellent games.

    However, is anyone else not a huge fan of Revenge of Shinobi? I always thought the game was a little overhyped considering the pace of Joe Musashi in the game. He always moved way too slow for me after playing the likes of Strider, Ninja Gaiden, and Shinobi III, RoS always felt dated in comparison.
    I tried to take that into account in my review of Revenge. I know it's relatively slow paced gameplay will not be suited to fans of faster and more frenetic action platformers, but I maintain that Revenge still has bags more atmosphere and gameplay than a whole host of rival contenders. Combine that with the incredible soundtrack, and the title's cultural historical significance in the Sega Mega Drive library, and you have a game that most certainly deserves all the praise it gets.

  15. #225
    Six Button Shooter Hedgehog-in-TrainingWildside Expert Cafeman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    170
    Rep Power
    12

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Baloo View Post
    However, is anyone else not a huge fan of Revenge of Shinobi? I always thought the game was a little overhyped considering the pace of Joe Musashi in the game. He always moved way too slow for me after playing the likes of Strider, Ninja Gaiden, and Shinobi III, RoS always felt dated in comparison.
    I find RoS to be a somewhat slow-paced, maybe even pedestrian or unexciting at first, but as you play through the levels and fight Rambo, Terminator, Spider-Man, Batman, and even Godzilla (!) -- or their swapped out versions -- the game comes into its own. I will always have a soft spot for it. I prefer Shinobi III , and I probably enjoy Shadow Dancer equally to RoS.

    It's a well-designed and well-programmed game. I still remember finding a copy of RoS at the game exchange around 2010 or later, checking out the cart and suspecting it was a Version 1.0, getting home and finding it indeed WAS Version 1 with all the forbidden IP's! Oh happy day. All for $8.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •