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Thread: Sega-16's Top 100 Mega Drive/Genesis games (please read post #5 before posting)

  1. #226
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingWildside Expert RvR's Avatar
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    Im gonna have to go to bat for RoS as well. Not only is it not fast, but its not supposed to be fast, because if you are impatient it punishes you harshly. Shinobi is about being a slow methodical ninja and seeing your efforts pay off, and the epic boss battles are really the highlight that makes it so awesome. I consider it better than Shinobi 3 for 2 reasons: 1. It doesnt have an annoying rock falling level that always killed me, and 2. more epic copyright infringing bosses.

  2. #227
    Master of Shinobi
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    IMO both Contra and Castlevania ended up ranked too high when compared to games listed below them for each one. I quite like the list anyway.

    That comment about Cool Spot not been anywhere to be seen is spot on: maybe if you ask for a top 20, the fair thing to do is just list a top 20. The proper thing would be asking everyone for every position you'll list. Cool Spot is on the best 100 games on the system but didn't make it because no one considers it a proper top 20 game, so it got axed from the top 100 which seems unfair.

    Anyway thanks for all the hard work!
    Lists of MD games: officially licensed (~925) @ cart sizes @ Top 5 @ Top 250 @ Sonic hacks @ best title screens @ Arcade ports (150) @ best European games

  3. #228
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    "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to chilled again."

    Good comment. I guess it's also a matter of cumulative votes. I believe Cool Spot might be a candidate that would make many Top30 lists, but not many Top20s... So if you'd count Top 30s it might chart, possibly even quite decently. Cumulative votes sure can make Difference. I mean just look at Aladdin: it's highest individual rank was 8th, but it received enough individual votes on lower ranks that in the end, it charted higher than games that gained individual 2nd, 3rd or 4th place votes.

    Anyway, I think it's a good list. Probably one of the very few more modern "Top Genesis games" rankings that doesn't have a Sonic game at the very Top, bit it still feels solid.

    At any rate, thanks for putting in the effort and dedication.
    The funny thing about an oxymoron is, even if you remove the ox, there'll always be a moron. The Question Remains: Y?

  4. #229
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    Interesting that I've not played Contra or Castlevania and they're both Konami and both in the Top 10 (nor Rocket Knight Adventures). I do think it was a great list overall with an honest but deserving surprise in the top slot. Another interesting thing I observe is that Aladdin and Quackshot were the lowest scoring (8 is still really high - I know), games that made the Top 20. I would agree with both those scores but I also think they deserve to be around where they are all the same.

    Thanks Seingalt for doing all that work!

  5. #230
    Hero of Algol
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    Thanks a lot to everyone who contributed to it and posted here.
    I really enjoyed reading every single post and comments about the picks.

    Seingalt, thank you so much for putting this together. I know it was a lot of effort.
    I tried to rewrite my review of SOR2 a couple times but ended up with something that didn't cover all the bases and that's what I really wanted for it.
    IMO one of the things that separates it from most games, even other top ones in the list, is how well everything was put together. I think it's difficult to point an aspect that wasn't well covered and developed in the game; one thing that I would highlight is how well the characters, their moves and AI behavior match. The way they attack, block, walk matches what they are supposed to be. This is something really hard to achieve and one area where most of the old beat'em ups failed to cover properly.
    I think there are many captivating characteristics in the game and that's why it appeals so strongly to so many people, despite how different their tastes and preferences are.

    I hope you run this again next year.
    I like the Top 30 idea. We could give that one a try and see how it goes. We'll always have this year's result to compare.

  6. #231
    Master of Shinobi Mega Drive Bowlsey's Avatar
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    Yes, thank you so much for all your hard work in compiling this Seingalt. You did an excellent job. 👏

  7. #232
    The Gentleman Thief Baloo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chilled View Post
    IMO both Contra and Castlevania ended up ranked too high when compared to games listed below them for each one. I quite like the list anyway.

    That comment about Cool Spot not been anywhere to be seen is spot on: maybe if you ask for a top 20, the fair thing to do is just list a top 20. The proper thing would be asking everyone for every position you'll list. Cool Spot is on the best 100 games on the system but didn't make it because no one considers it a proper top 20 game, so it got axed from the top 100 which seems unfair.

    Anyway thanks for all the hard work!
    I would agree only in the sense that I think those two brands have only enhanced themselves over the years which is why I think they ended up so high. Still think Castlevania Bloodlines is a Top 20 Genesis game and a marked improvement over the NES games. Contra on the other hand is frustrating as hell compared to even the NES games, I've never gotten past the second level.

    I actually liked that it was only the Top 20 games, it seems to have scaled extremely well considering the diversity of everyone's list. To me, 30 spots gives people 10 spots to effectively be totally creative with their picks, you have to be more selective with a Top 20 list of these games have to be there. And clearly there were more than 100 games that people felt were worthy of being in the Top 100. I mean realistically, how many games were left off of the Top 100 that absolutely deserved to be there? I don't see too many posts like that in this thread, more of the nature that games that did end up on there didn't deserve to be there. Imagine what it would look like with 30 spots instead of 20.
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  8. #233
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingWildside Expert Spendle's Avatar
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    Whilst I made the comment about Cool Spot, I did so recognising that these are top 20 lists and the reality is that there are a number of decent platformers but not many spaces to fill. My list is more platformer heavy than your average list as it's one of my preferred genres - conversely you don't see a single shooter in my list as I really don't get on with them. I'm sure a large number of contributers could make similar arguments for a whole number of shooters as to why they should be in the top 100 as I can for Cool Spot.

    This is why the top 20 list is a good way of doing it, it forces people to really choose what to include and so you get a diverse range of results, and when you end up with a game being selected multiple (tens of) times it means even more. What would have made it a more robust list is more members contributing but that's something you can have little influence over.

    Overall a great job done by Seingalt and all reviewers.

  9. #234
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingWildside Expert RvR's Avatar
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    Does anyone else feel like TF4 has everything that makes you love games but for some reason you dont enjoy it as much as you should? Like the objective part of my brains can see everything amazing about it and that it should probably be in my top 10, but when I play it it just doesnt have that crazy addicting feel that I associate with my favorite games. I think part of it might be because none of the power ups are quite strong enough to give you that beast mode feeling where you eagerly anticipate annihilating the next wave of enemies that enters the screen.

  10. #235
    Master of Shinobi
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    it's the sheer difficulty (losing the powerup when you die, the one hit cheaps deaths with bullets or ships coming from nowhere...) that kills it. Still a top 5 game for me though.

    I understand Baloo's argument, but I still think the final list has its flaws when a game which EVERYONE considers a top 100 game is not in the 100 best games lists just because no one considers it a top 20 game. There's a flaw there. Maybe only posting the resulting top 20 would have been better. But then again we would have much less info and stats to talk about. I don't think Cool Spot is the only game missing among what we consider to be the best 100 games.

    For starters, there's at leat 200 games that are better than Warrior of Rome II, Road Rash 3 or Rock'n'Roll racing...

    ECCO II didn't even make it.
    Lists of MD games: officially licensed (~925) @ cart sizes @ Top 5 @ Top 250 @ Sonic hacks @ best title screens @ Arcade ports (150) @ best European games

  11. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by chilled View Post
    it's the sheer difficulty (losing the powerup when you die, the one hit cheaps deaths with bullets or ships coming from nowhere...) that kills it. Still a top 5 game for me though.
    Yeah, some games are definitely more welcoming than others.
    I play Bio-Hazard Battle a lot more often than TFIV and Raiden (with fusaru's hack) a lot more than any other MD shooter these days. But rationally I know that TFIV is the superior game.


    Quote Originally Posted by chilled View Post
    I understand Baloo's argument, but I still think the final list has its flaws when a game which EVERYONE considers a top 100 game is not in the 100 best games lists just because no one considers it a top 20 game. There's a flaw there. Maybe only posting the resulting top 20 would have been better. But then again we would have much less info and stats to talk about. I don't think Cool Spot is the only game missing among what we consider to be the best 100 games.

    For starters, there's at leat 200 games that are better than Warrior of Rome II, Road Rash 3 or Rock'n'Roll racing...

    ECCO II didn't even make it.
    I really agree with you here. I left out several games that I consider great because I didn't have enough spots in my list.

    Regarding Rock'n'Roll Racing, to me it's difficult to go back to the standard version after playing the hacked one with more AI cars and fixed control issues.
    When they ported the game from the SNES, they left in the code some calculations and stuff which only worked properly on the SNES. And the music is far inferior on the MD.
    I played both the MD hack and the SNES version countless times with my friends, it's an awesome game IMO.

    Maybe we could have a separate top 10 list for hacked/improved versions next time? Sonic 3D Director's Cut and some other extensive hacks are difficult to ignore.

  12. #237
    Mega Driver Hedgehog-in-TrainingMaster of Shinobi Gryson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post
    Maybe we could have a separate top 10 list for hacked/improved versions next time? Sonic 3D Director's Cut and some other extensive hacks are difficult to ignore.
    On that topic - is there a thread for this already? If not, it would be great to put together a 'definitive version' list (I know there might be some disagreement on what should be included). And not just a list of games that have received changes - sometimes the changes are not improvements, despite best intentions.

    It would be great to have a curated list that could be referenced like this.

  13. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gryson View Post
    On that topic - is there a thread for this already? If not, it would be great to put together a 'definitive version' list (I know there might be some disagreement on what should be included).
    I disagree with most lists I've seen 'cause I hate changes which aren't necessary/aren't improvements/aren't pro-level implemented.
    Just the sheer amount of questioning and hate I would get tempts me to put such list together.

  14. #239
    Mega Driver Hedgehog-in-TrainingMaster of Shinobi Gryson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post
    I disagree with most lists I've seen 'cause I hate changes which aren't necessary/aren't improvements/aren't pro-level implemented.
    Just the sheer amount of questioning and hate I would get tempts me to put such list together.
    Do it - call it Barone's List of Definitive Versions or something. People can't complain if you just post your personal recommendations (haha, if only).

  15. #240
    Six Button Shooter Hedgehog-in-TrainingWildside Expert Cafeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post

    Factually wrong:
    https://www.sega-16.com/forum/showth...l=1#post430531

    The US copies were always a bit pricey due to the fact that aren't that many of them but, regarding CGR, we had this discussion here at the time it happened.
    The prices were rocketed right after the CGR reviews.
    Before CGR's departure to his own platform, some of his reviews had MILLIONS of views (his Hang On SMS review had around 10 million views at some point, something unthinkable these days). The MUSHA review really showcased the game for a much larger audience for the first time.
    So yes, he used to have a big influence both on opinion and price of the games.
    And, no, MUSHA wasn't so popular before it. There aren't even enough US copies to back that claim.
    That was interesting, I did not know that, so thank you for the link. I've met Mr CGR a couple times, and I've watched a bunch of the old CGRHD videos but wasn't aware they had so many views and influence. Now I'm wondering at what exact year I discovered MUSHA and started to love it. In my case I suspect it was the earlier 2000's when I started to rebuild my Genesis collection. I owned Robo Aleste CD back in '94 or so and enjoyed the game, but it took years before I realized it was a follow-up to MUSHA.

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