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Thread: Sega-16's Top 100 Mega Drive/Genesis games (please read post #5 before posting)

  1. #31
    The Gentleman Thief Baloo's Avatar
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    I went and looked through all the lists and I havent seen anyone put anything weird in their top 20, let alone top 5.
    Quote Originally Posted by j_factor View Post
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  2. #32
    Master of Shinobi
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baloo View Post
    I went and looked through all the lists and I havent seen anyone put anything weird in their top 20, let alone top 5.
    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post
    I'm curious to know what do you consider "oddball" and "very weird" choices.
    Sorry if I sounded disrespectful, far from my intention. I don't find them wrong, just a bit audacious at times, I think it's great people are choosing not so consensual games, at least not consensual in these positions. Allow me to combine some of the choices :

    1 Revenge of Shinobi (as the best game)
    2 Panorama Cotton
    3 Greatest heavyweights
    4 Shining in the darkness / Super Hang On
    5 Batman / Road Rash
    6
    7 Star Flight
    8 Toejam & Earl
    9 EA Hockey
    10 Splatterhouse 3
    Lists of MD games: officially licensed (~925) @ cart sizes @ Top 5 @ Top 250 @ Sonic hacks @ best title screens @ Arcade ports (150) @ best European games

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by chilled View Post
    Sorry if I sounded disrespectful, far from my intention. I don't find them wrong, just a bit audacious at times, I think it's great people are choosing not so consensual games, at least not consensual in these positions. Allow me to combine some of the choices :

    1 Revenge of Shinobi (as the best game)
    2 Panorama Cotton
    3 Greatest heavyweights
    4 Shining in the darkness / Super Hang On
    5 Batman / Road Rash
    6
    7 Star Flight
    8 Toejam & Earl
    9 EA Hockey
    10 Splatterhouse 3
    IMO you didn't sound disrespectful; I was honestly curious.
    I like to discuss lists like this.

    Regarding the games you highlighted, I'll advocate a few:
    Greatest Heavyweights - I almost put this one in my list. Why? Well, it's one of the most advanced sports games I've played. The AI is so good it mimics the moves and attitude of the boxers they are representing. Rocky Marciano fights like Rocky Marciano, it's a work of art. And the presentation with all the voice clips, it's amazing.
    And it's really fun to play; you need to have a different strategy for each different boxing style and physical attributes you're going to face next.
    To this day there's not a game which captures the aura of the golden era of Heavyweight Boxing better than this one. Also, probably, the first game to immortalize Michael Buffer's legendary ring announcements.
    The presentation is really above and beyond anything we had at the time.

    Super Hang On - Another one that I only removed due to the low framerate (20 fps), but it's an amazing port which trashes all other attempts including the X68000 one.
    The CPU traffic and obstacles are identical to the arcade. The handling is very close to the arcade and very complex in a lot of ways (how the sliding is calculated, how the collision impact is calculated, how the angling of the bike relates to the grip, etc. All in 32-bit calcs.); it's quite probably the most advanced engine of the line scrolling-based racing games of that era.
    And then there's the track design on top of that. The track design is amazing and perfectly adjusted to the traffic (which is different for each difficulty level); to the point that if you're playing the game on maximum difficulty you'll have to use all the track, all the tangencies and plan ahead the overtakes.
    The harder you push the game the brighter its design shines.
    Far better than OutRun and way better than most motorcycle games of both 4th and 5th gen eras.
    There's also the great exclusive original mode, which truly expands on how detailed and advanced the underlying game engine was; you can see how grip and frame weight were accounted for.
    The MD version loses a lot in speed sensation and it is more forgiving/simplified in terms of high speed crashes (another highlight of Yu Suzuki's brilliance) when compared to the arcade. Those are the only factors that made me not include it, but I really respect who still thinks it's good enough to be there, because it's really a genius design.
    Last edited by Barone; 01-03-2021 at 10:15 PM.

  4. #34
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    Shakespeare

    Shining in the Darkness! It is FANTASTIC! No other 16-bit RPG can compete with its immersive, cinematic narrative. It practically feels like you are living a fairy tale. The game does so much to drag you into the story. A few examples:

    *The music gets louder when you go into the tavern, as if a real band was playing there. Wow!
    *The enemies are almost animated!
    *When you try to use an item with no effect, there is a dramatic pause before "... but nothing happened!"
    *Pyra casts slow on the crocodile man, just like in battle!
    *You join forces with the crocodile man and other characters too!
    *Milo has the same last name as me.
    *The screen has a thundering shake when Darksol appears.
    *Enemies shout at you. The more perilous enemy, the harsher the scream.
    *You don't use these shitty auto-maps like today's n00b gamers do, you use real grid paper for the immersion!!
    *The characters speak, just like in Punch Out!! for the NES.
    *The dungeons are in real 3D with a higher polygon count than -1!
    *The music is epic!
    *An old man introduces the game for you every time you boot it up, it feels just like having a grandfather doing it, despite both of my grandfathers being dead before I was born.
    *The story is classic!
    *Pandora's Box! WOW!
    *and so on, etc. and more!
    *see the line above and the repeat it a few times!
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  5. #35
    Master of Shinobi
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    Paprium is Shipping in the Darkness

    sorry had to do it.
    Lists of MD games: officially licensed (~925) @ cart sizes @ Top 5 @ Top 250 @ Sonic hacks @ best title screens @ Arcade ports (150) @ best European games

  6. #36
    counter of beans Hedgehog-in-TrainingWildside Expert Cafeman's Avatar
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    Re: Super Hang On. It is on my top 20 Genesis list. At first, I wasn't sure if it really is a top 20 quality game, so I replayed it over last weekend quite a bit including the career mode. This reminded me of why I always want to play it when I hook my Genesis up again. The game is very fun and well programmed with a great sense of speed and challenge. I'd be happy with just the arcade mode myself, but you also get a career mode. I could see people being impatient with the career mode since you have to play each track for 5 wins before progressing to the next rival/ track/ sponsor. Those five or so replays let you really learn the track and learn how to use your initially unimpressive equipment to get a win. You have to manage your money because once you get to the one female rival, you need to be able to afford to Turbo Bike or you will not progress any more. Even though it's a early Genesis title, it's scaling and sense of movement are quite good, superior to many other games from that time. And finally, the music selections are awesome and truly increase the fun and enjoyment and quality of the game.

    I am mostly of the opinion that sports games and racing games for the Genesis, even if they were fantastic in the day, probably don't belong in the top 20 because they were so quickly dated. Playing most of the racers now is usually an underwhelming experience without the Nostalgia from playing them back in the day. But Super Hang On, and also Super Monaco GP for me, still have the quality of gameplay and visuals and sound which make them top 20 games for me, unlike all other Genesis racers.

    Now by way of contrast, one of my favorite Genesis games is Arnold Palmer tournament golf. I replayed a lot of it too and I loved it all weekend long. However it's a bit too simplistic in gameplay and has complicated passwords to re-enter, and it was far surpassed by the PGA Genesis golf games. So even though I prefer Arnold Palmer tournament golf, because this list is about the top 20 highest quality or best Genesis games, I couldn't in good conscience put it on my top 20 list.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zebbe View Post
    *You don't use these shitty auto-maps like today's n00b gamers do, you use real grid paper for the immersion!!
    I love drawing dungeons on grid paper! My favorite excuse in school when I had not done my math homework: "That's not my fault. Shining in the Darkness used up all my grid paper."

  8. #38
    Master of Shinobi
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    yes Super Hang On would mostly be an RPG racer. It's probably the game I have put the most time into, along with World Cup Italia 90 which not coincidentally was on the same cartridge. It's a great game indeed, but the low framerate, simplistic gameplay (you can turn left and right, brake, accelerate, and accelerate more, and that's it, even if as Barone said, the gripping physics are not that simple) and graphics can't make it a top 20 (yet alone a top 4!) imho if you take into account the whole library. There are even 3-4 aftermarket homebrews that I think are better than this game. Now if I had to make a top 20 list of my personal favorites, which often equals to a top 20 most played games, it would be right there of course.
    Lists of MD games: officially licensed (~925) @ cart sizes @ Top 5 @ Top 250 @ Sonic hacks @ best title screens @ Arcade ports (150) @ best European games

  9. #39
    Mega Driver Hedgehog-in-TrainingMaster of Shinobi Gryson's Avatar
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    It's interesting, as always, to see the near-complete discrepancy between the titles that Sega of America heavily pushed and that topped the U.S. sales charts vs. the titles that Sega-16 users choose.

    My list:

    1. Landstalker
    2. Dynamite Headdy
    3. Gunstar Heroes
    4. Streets of Rage 2
    5. Monster World IV
    6. Shining Force
    7. Alien Soldier
    8. Langrisser II
    9. Battle Mania Daiginjou
    10. Flashback
    11. Sonic the Hedgehog
    12. Thunder Force IV
    13. Shining in the Darkness
    14. Shinobi III
    15. Rocket Knight Adventures
    16. Contra Hard Corps
    17. Gley Lancer
    18. General Chaos
    19. Beyond Oasis
    20. MUSHA

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gryson View Post
    It's interesting, as always, to see the near-complete discrepancy between the titles that Sega of America heavily pushed and that topped the U.S. sales charts vs. the titles that Sega-16 users choose.

    My list:

    1. Landstalker
    2. Dynamite Headdy
    3. Gunstar Heroes
    4. Streets of Rage 2
    5. Monster World IV
    6. Shining Force
    7. Alien Soldier
    8. Langrisser II
    9. Battle Mania Daiginjou
    10. Flashback
    11. Sonic the Hedgehog
    12. Thunder Force IV
    13. Shining in the Darkness
    14. Shinobi III
    15. Rocket Knight Adventures
    16. Contra Hard Corps
    17. Gley Lancer
    18. General Chaos
    19. Beyond Oasis
    20. MUSHA
    best list so far in my very personal opinion. Neither Sonic 2/3 nor PSIV though
    Lists of MD games: officially licensed (~925) @ cart sizes @ Top 5 @ Top 250 @ Sonic hacks @ best title screens @ Arcade ports (150) @ best European games

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by chilled View Post
    yes Super Hang On would mostly be an RPG racer. It's probably the game I have put the most time into, along with World Cup Italia 90 which not coincidentally was on the same cartridge. It's a great game indeed, but the low framerate, simplistic gameplay (you can turn left and right, brake, accelerate, and accelerate more, and that's it, even if as Barone said, the gripping physics are not that simple) and graphics can't make it a top 20 (yet alone a top 4!) imho if you take into account the whole library. There are even 3-4 aftermarket homebrews that I think are better than this game. Now if I had to make a top 20 list of my personal favorites, which often equals to a top 20 most played games, it would be right there of course.
    The only let down of the original mode is that you don't get to visually race against your rival; you don't get to dispute a position with him.
    But given how heavy the game is in terms of calcs, they really didn't seem to have any room for a AI implementation.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gryson View Post
    It's interesting, as always, to see the near-complete discrepancy between the titles that Sega of America heavily pushed and that topped the U.S. sales charts vs. the titles that Sega-16 users choose.
    Eternal Champions anyone?


    Quote Originally Posted by chilled View Post
    Neither Sonic 2/3
    I bet Gryson's response will be interesting but I will offer you this:
    - The sequels were, to some extent, stretched out in order to add value to the product and make it more appealing for those who already owned and played the first game a lot. But such a thing brings its own set of issues: pacing problems in stages that drag for too long, some uninspired stages, repetition of the same kinds of challenges over and over again, etc.

    - Sonic 1 IMO has the best soundtrack overall and the drowning music is rather iconic. Invincibility music also the best one of all. Some Sonic 2's tracks are my favorites, but overall, I still put the first one on top.

    - Sonic 2's first stage went backwards in terms of pixel art. It looks flat; less detailed and far more confined than Sonic 1's Green Hill Zone. Other stages look good but it also shows how Sonic 2's art is a roller coaster. Sonic 3 & Knuckles have similar issues IMO, some stages look awesome, some look mediocre; actually I prefer Sonic 3 alone 'cause the Knuckles side of the game has more dips than good moments to me.

    - Spin dash is a gimmick which hurts, shortcuts and cheapens out the level design and makes the gameplay shallower IMO. With that you can reach areas without carefully planning to build and preserve momentum, it's feels hacky to me. The springs were already there for those "unreachable" areas but they still required better skills and maneuvering than just hammering a button.

    - Sonic 2's special stages look nice but play very, very poorly. Sonic 3's are good enough but still focus a lot more on speed and visuals than physics and skilled maneuvering as Sonic 1's.

    - Sonic 1's stages are more distinctive and gameplay-wise each one provides a unique skill challenge/upgrade test. And there's proper mood changing to each one of them. Star Light Zone feels like a dream while Scrap Brain Zone is super tense and threats you with death all the time.
    Last edited by Barone; 01-05-2021 at 12:23 PM.

  12. #42
    counter of beans Hedgehog-in-TrainingWildside Expert Cafeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chilled View Post
    It's a great game indeed, but the low framerate, simplistic gameplay (you can turn left and right, brake, accelerate, and accelerate more, and that's it, even if as Barone said, the gripping physics are not that simple) and graphics can't make it a top 20 (yet alone a top 4!) imho if you take into account the whole library..
    Disagree. Frame rate and animation could have been improved with a bigger cart, but what is there is fine and does not impeded the gameplay. I'm sure I haven't played the "entire library" nor whatever aftermarket game you refer to, but given other Genesis racers I suspect I'd still prefer the fun Super Hang On style of game. The graphics are just one part of a game's appeal. There are games with impressive graphics and effects on Genesis that I have never enjoyed playing and wouldn't include on my top 20. Ranger X is one of them.

    Also, a game should not be mentioned if it has "simplistic gameplay"? Like the more SIM aspects a racer has, the higher it should be on a list? I feel the opposite, IMHO. I stand by my top 20 recommendation of SHO.

  13. #43
    Mega Driver Hedgehog-in-TrainingMaster of Shinobi Gryson's Avatar
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    About choosing Sonic 1/2/3:

    That's always an issue on lists like these. They're all great games, but part of what factors into my list is the uniqueness of each game relative to the others on the list. I chose Sonic 1 because I think it captures the idea of "Sonic" in the most straightforward, pleasurable terms, even though it is less refined. I would place the other two games slightly below 20, along with PSIV.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seingalt View Post
    Made an addition to post #5 today:



    The "official" ranking that will be posted at the front of the thread will of course still incorporate the Rep Power multiplier.
    I encourage you to go the egalitarian route and drop the rep power provision altogether.

  15. #45
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    I admit my list was tough to put together, but I think it's primarily because I'm not a big shooter fan, and that knocks out a lot in a genre that the Genesis does very, very well.
    Hardcore Retro Gaming - Discuss games ten years old or older!

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