Was Saturn doomed to fail or could it somehow have sold more than the PS1?

[zyrobs]

Actually the X360 vs PS3 is not unlike the comparison of PS1 and Saturn, performance wise. PS3 has theoretically more cpu grunt but it is very hard to max it out and it is arguable if it really is more powerful or not for pure math - just like the Saturn with its double SH2 + DSP.
But both the PS3 and Saturn were significantly outclassed in GPU power, and it took for so long for games to have efficient enough code to close the distance.

I still say the major reason why PS3 caught up graphics wise isn't because the Cell is so magically powerful, but because Microsoft abandoned everything to pursue the Kinect which was a dead end.

[SegaAMD]

Go fuck yourself.

calm down, I already reported.

it was good that you participated in the thread so I could see some compliments that I read of you in other threads do not correspond to reality, you do not have technical knowledge to talk about sega saturn or ps2 or any other console, only common sense, the philosophy of the masses.

[Gryson]

calm down, I already reported.

it was good that you participated in the thread so I could see some compliments that I read of you in other threads do not correspond to reality, you do not have technical knowledge to talk about sega saturn or ps2 or any other console, only common sense, the philosophy of the masses.

So please give us a technical breakdown of the strengths of the Saturn over the PS1 in terms of 3D.

[SegaAMD]

So please give us a technical breakdown of the strengths of the Saturn over the PS1 in terms of 3D.

yes, it's late i will do it tomorrow

[Barone]

calm down, I already reported.

I gave my point of view and you attacked me for no good reason.
That response is what you deserve for being such a toolbox and dense fanboy.

it was good that you participated in the thread so I could see some compliments that I read of you in other threads do not correspond to reality, you do not have technical knowledge to talk about sega saturn or ps2 or any other console, only common sense, the philosophy of the masses.

"the difference between saturn and ps1 is extremely close"
^This statement pretty much sums up how "knowledgeable" and "unbiased" you are.

I really wish the real Saturn was the fanboy Saturn, so I wouldn't have to experience 20 fps 3D games with no transparency, lack of proper lighting, low res dark textures and noticeable popup in most of its 3rd party titles.

[zyrobs]

So please give us a technical breakdown of the strengths of the Saturn over the PS1 in terms of 3D.

Saturn could do a bowtie quad, had less texture distortion for square textures (but more for triangles), and hi-res screen resolution did not affect the amount of textures you could use (however it limited the color count and therefore the lightning).
And you could use the VDP2 to do draw large plains, or an impressive cloudy skybox, or do full screen fading for no polygon charge.

That's about it.

I actually do wonder if hi-res lightning would be possible or not on the Saturn, yeah you are limited to 256 colors but that didn't limit DOS games from having them.

[SegaAMD]

I gave my point of view and you attacked me for no good reason.

I just quoted you, and you felt attacked, I think we started out wrong.

I would like to put a key point in the conversation.

the '' power '' can be interpreted as '' power for what? '' Dead or alive is a good example, the playstation runs a different and simplified version of the game, although the beautiful look it's less advanced. the same is true with the ps3, the cpu cell has high capacity with vector calculations but the processing paradigms in that generation were based on gpu, thing have changed, so a important strenght of ps3 was left aside by third parties due to all lobbies ect. that allowed the paradigm shift.
thats my point

[Barone]

I just quoted you, and you felt attacked, I think we started out wrong.

No, you didn't just quote me. You said my "analyzes are biased".
And I wasn't even replying to you directly.

Also, it's common sense, even among former Saturn developers that the PS1 had better performance and more advanced features for 3D graphics.
I really shouldn't be attacked for stating the obvious.

Dead or alive is a good example, the playstation runs a different and simplified version of the game, although the beautiful look it's less advanced.

Explain "less advanced", please.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

I actually do wonder if hi-res lightning would be possible or not on the Saturn, yeah you are limited to 256 colors but that didn't limit DOS games from having them.

If I remember correctly gouraud shading doesn't work in that mode on paper, but if you set up the palettes just right it kind of works due to a bug?

[gamevet]

Actually the X360 vs PS3 is not unlike the comparison of PS1 and Saturn, performance wise. PS3 has theoretically more cpu grunt but it is very hard to max it out and it is arguable if it really is more powerful or not for pure math - just like the Saturn with its double SH2 + DSP.
But both the PS3 and Saturn were significantly outclassed in GPU power, and it took for so long for games to have efficient enough code to close the distance.

I still say the major reason why PS3 caught up graphics wise isn't because the Cell is so magically powerful, but because Microsoft abandoned everything to pursue the Kinect which was a dead end.

No, the Cell really was a more powerful CPU than the 3 core Power PC CPU in the Xbox 360. It could do calculations for the GPU, and Sony even considered using a second Cell CPU as a GPU.

http://www.redgamingtech.com/ubisoft...u-performance/

In the above image, we can see the results of running cloth simulation on the the system’s CPU. The previous generation – Microsoft’s Xbox 360, and Sony’s Playstation 3 had very robust CPU’s. Naughty Dog (along with many other developers) have often highly praised the PS3’s SPU’s (Synergistic Processing Unit) as they were in effect vector processors Read more on the PS3’s cell processor here. They were in some ways a precursor to the Playstation 4’s GPGPU structure. So, the Jaguar’s lag behind, running the cloth simulation is too expensive.

I can't find the original article that he got those cloth physics numbers from. That article included an i7, and it couldn't keep up with the Cell with this test.

[Leynos]

So please give us a technical breakdown of the strengths of the Saturn over the PS1 in terms of 3D.

The Saturn took up more 3D physical space than PS1.

[zyrobs]

If I remember correctly gouraud shading doesn't work in that mode on paper, but if you set up the palettes just right it kind of works due to a bug?

Gouraud Shading doesn't work on palette modes "on paper", but works in practice (it alters the palette code instead of the color value). That's why I'm wondering - does 8-bit or hi-res mode specifically prohibit the processing of the shading tables, or does the manual says you can't use them in hi-res due to the fact that 8-bit mode forces the use of palettes where the results for shading is "not guaranteed"?