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Thread: Do you guys like Eternal Champions CD?

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    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingWildside Expert RvR's Avatar
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    Default Do you guys like Eternal Champions CD?

    I replayed it for the first time in about 2 years and I can appreciate all the cool visuals, characters, and guitar solos, but I was pretty disappointed they nerfed Xavier so hard. He moves like hes in molasses compared to the original EC. I do also like that its harder to accidentally do your special moves, but there is no practice mode and the steep difficulty makes it hard to practice in a contest. Basically I have mixed feelings on whether or not I like it compared to the original. What do you guys think?

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    Could this be of any help?

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    Yes. IIRC the cart version had basically no combo system, flagrantly cheating AI, and just didn't play as well overall. It's still a flawed game, but I prefer it to the original.

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    Japanese Sonic CD FTW!!! Master of Shinobi Ecco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silanda View Post
    Yes. IIRC the cart version had basically no combo system, flagrantly cheating AI, and just didn't play as well overall. It's still a flawed game, but I prefer it to the original.
    Does the AI really cheat, in EC? Like, do u know that for sure?

    I was wondering that recently -- I heard that arcade SFII was a huge cheater against players, so I wonder how different fighters might have different amounts of cheating against human players?

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    In my experience basically every 90s fighting game the AI reads your inputs and reacts in well under half a second to them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ecco View Post
    Does the AI really cheat, in EC? Like, do u know that for sure?
    Unless I'm misremembering things in my old age, in one respect it's certain, which is what I'm referring to. If the AI taunts you, you lose the ability to do special moves as your inner strength gauge is exhausted. If you taunt the AI, the gauge is exhausted but it carries on regardless. I'd call the AI ignoring one of the game's (almost) unique gameplay mechanics in a way the gives it the advantage, cheating. I can't remember if this is still true in ECCD, but I don't remember it bothering me there.

    Outside of that it supposedly plays quite cleanly except it has impossibly fast reactions (one frame reactions apparently). To be fair to it, it's hard but I don't notice obivous cheating in the AI behaviour itself outside of the inner strength exploitation. It's nothing like the unfair dickery that is the arcade version of Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo (Chun Li just cancelling her spinning bird kick, WTF?).
    Last edited by Silanda; 03-13-2021 at 11:53 AM.

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    Love it. Probably my favorite fighting game of all time. The story, backgrounds and character designs were far more interesting than SF2 and MK imo. The fatalities were much better than MK as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silanda View Post
    Unless I'm misremembering things in my old age, in one respect it's certain, which is what I'm referring to. If the AI taunts you, you lose the ability to do special moves as your inner strength gauge is exhausted. If you taunt the AI, the gauge is exhausted but it carries on regardless. I'd call the AI ignoring one of the game's (almost) unique gameplay mechanics in a way the gives it the advantage, cheating. I can't remember if this is still true in ECCD, but I don't remember it bothering me there.
    There were certain moves that required inner strength and used up inner strength, but you seemed to be able to do them any time even if you had no IS left. Or at least that was the case with some of the moves of Slash, anyway - I'm fairly certain his throws used up IS but I could always do them even if your meter was empty. I think the manual even mentioned them as special attacks.

    Also Slash can cheese the Eternal Champion with his jumping HP, which always lunges forward in the air no matter what. Jump back, the AI will try to follow you, then press HP in the air to dash forward and get an almost guaranteed hit. I think. It has been over 20 years I did that - but I do remember that Slash was the only character I could beat the game with due to this trick, and his throws being special attacks but working even when you had no inner strength.

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    Six Button Shooter Hedgehog-in-TrainingWildside Expert Cafeman's Avatar
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    I remember that forward-jumping hard punch move with Slash! I didn't own EC but owned EC CD mind you. I beat the Eternal Champion with a few characters, Trident was my main guy. He could turn liquid to pass through and enemy or projectile, and he also had a shot which would freeze the opponent. Then you (on the CD version) you could go do a multi move combo after the freeze, and try to keep repeating that pattern. It's been 20 years, hard to remember, but I played the game a lot 1994-1996 ish. I kept waiting for the Saturn sequel which never came but was promised on the box!

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    In my experiences, SF and MK felt a ton more accessible than EC (for a gamer that didnít gravitate towards this kind of game). I ended up loving the Soul Calibur and Virtua Fighter series, but could never adapt to what EC was trying to do.

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    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
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    Both aren't great fighters. The art style is horrible, the characters feel slow and clunky to use and control. I do admire the depth and sheer amount of content put into the Sega CD version mind
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cafeman View Post
    I remember that forward-jumping hard punch move with Slash! I didn't own EC but owned EC CD mind you. I beat the Eternal Champion with a few characters, Trident was my main guy. He could turn liquid to pass through and enemy or projectile, and he also had a shot which would freeze the opponent. Then you (on the CD version) you could go do a multi move combo after the freeze, and try to keep repeating that pattern. It's been 20 years, hard to remember, but I played the game a lot 1994-1996 ish. I kept waiting for the Saturn sequel which never came but was promised on the box!
    Yup, I remember Trident a lot too. The dizzy projectile was a fireball, and he could spin his trident around to do 30% damage. He had these strange cartwheel kicks too.
    Xavier also had great moves, some kind of slide that looked like his staff made him rocket forward, I think his HP attack had the staff spinning around to have great range, the standing LP did a multi-combo that could very easily dizzy the opponent, and he had the hold back -> forward+punch attack that could either freeze the enemy by turning them into gold (!) or summon a green energy snake that bit them repeatedly. The background music on his level was based on Tubular Bells, of all things.

    I don't think I liked the other characters too much, only those three. Larcen had a dope spiderman-style flying kick, and Blade had a hand slap and some weird-ass disc projectile that flew around completely randomly and it also had a totally random hitbox. The british Vampire dude could drain your life to refill his own, and Jetta was impossibly fast and a pain to deal with when controlled by the AI. The characters names were an odd bag too, on one hand you have Mitchell Middleton Knight aka "Midknight" for short, on the other hand you have a buff black guy named Blade...
    I think I spent as much time dicking around in the training room fighting those mini robots and just reading the character biography screens as much as the actual main game. Great music too, even with the poor GEMS default patches.

    Mind you I only played the original, not the CD version.

    Still, this could easily be one of those properties that could be successfully rebooted.

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    Both games are tough but Challenge from the Darkside is at least fair on the player. I like to think of myself as fairly good at a pretty even cross section of fighting games, but the original Eternal Champions on the Mega Drive just kicks my arse every single time by virtue of the AI spamming special moves and apparently possessing a tiny hit box while mine feels like it takes up half the screen.

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    I think most fighting games (and racers) cheated with their AI back then. I remember SNK fighters being so bloody hard. I just don't think both EC were that great, not terrible just not outstanding
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    The AI definitely cheated in the cart version, because it could pull off all special moves all the time regardless of Inner Strength, so fighting opponents like Jetta (who would just immediately double her speed n constantly) would get pretty annoying unless you found a working simple exploit against her and cheesed the heck out of that. Playing like that isn't really that much fun.

    I prefer "Challenge from the Darkside". Yes, Xavier has been nerfed (he was my favorite character in cart EC as well), but IMO the original characters are now better balanced, it has a ton of new content, and some of the new characters are pretty cool. The game has still a few balancing issues, and the special move system is a bit too awkward. I liked it back in the day, but I can relate why people preferred SF2 or the original Mortal Kombat trilogy offer the years - on top of their better balancing, these games were just more accessible.
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