Quantcast

Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 78

Thread: Saturn Vs. 3DO FMV

  1. #46
    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Wales, UK
    Posts
    6,378
    Rep Power
    73

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118 View Post
    The improvement is probably that they switched to using sequenced music instead of CD Audio which left more space on the disc. I'd also have to look and see if they changed the framerates at all.
    Like I said it was an old interview it was only in audio and it was like 4 AM in the morning. I just remember parts of the team talking a lot about the improvements done in Zwei like the better FMV and how Ueda-san (who wasn't at the interview) had a huge impact to the art direction/look of the game and was behind most of the bosses, how special addition was put on things like the tail animation, They also joked and said how they wanted 'Moebius' to do the art again, but the top brass rejected it due to the costs and how they had plans to make a new game outside of Panzer, but it was rejected by SEGA top brass as well sadly.

    I always found it disappointing that Saga didn't look to use Truemotion

    and the 30fps Frame rate isn't helping anything
    Thanks for clearing that up. You would think and hope SEGA Japan knew better and that faster isn't always better. Not quite the same, I remember Jackie Chan hating the work on the Protector and sore never to work in America again after not being able to undercrank the camera
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
    one of the best 3D shooting games available
    Presented for your pleasure

  2. #47
    Hero of Algol TrekkiesUnite118's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Age
    33
    Posts
    8,301
    Rep Power
    137

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    I always found it disappointing that Saga didn't look to use Truemotion
    TrueMotion isn't always better. It comes at the cost of being limited to 15-bit RGB which can cause noticeable banding. To avoid it you have to do a lot of tweaking with the colors, dithering, etc. to try and make it look decent. It's a lot more complicated to work with. And even then the results can end up looking worse than Cinepak. It also has a much higher CPU footprint than Cinepak. Cinepak is very light weight on one SH-2 while Truemotion uses both CPUs to do the decompression. While there later was a 24-bit RGB version of Truemotion, it was a lot more demanding to decompress which is why most games you see using it like SotN run in a small window at a low frame rate. It was also very expensive to license and use.

    Basically unless the people who made the codec were the ones doing the encoding, Cinepak will usually beat out Truemotion.

  3. #48
    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Wales, UK
    Posts
    6,378
    Rep Power
    73

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118 View Post
    TrueMotion isn't always better. .
    Yep, it's always down to the ones doing the encoding. I didn't like the Truemotion videos in Dead or Alive or the pointless FMV in Dracula X and Virtual Fighter 2 Cinepax FMV was rather crap and wasn't impressed with Fighting Vipers Truemotion (Fighting Megamix was intro was ace mind) so it's up to how it's used for both formats i guess , Yes, There's plenty of brilliant examples of Cinepak, but when you saw the best of Truemotion like in Lupin the 3rd it just seemed better with fewer artefacts. It would have been nice to see something similar for Saga. That said I always wished that SEGA would have done a separate Mpeg version of Saga and Enemy Zero on the Saturn to go along with the standard editions

    I remember an interview with of all people Acclaim talking about Truemotion and how the makers of it had made a version of an improved version of TrueMotion for the DC (to the one used in Tee off on the DC) that not only bettered Mpegsoftdec on the DC but DVD's too.
    The issues were it needed a lot of disc space and the licences was more expensive. I'm not sure if any DC actually made use of it. Speaking of Softdec, CRI also said that they had developed a version of Mpegsoftdec for the Saturn too but it came too late.
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
    one of the best 3D shooting games available
    Presented for your pleasure

  4. #49
    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Wales, UK
    Posts
    6,378
    Rep Power
    73

    Default

    Some more 3DO stuff for Blades











    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
    one of the best 3D shooting games available
    Presented for your pleasure

  5. #50
    Raging in the Streets Blades's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    3,625
    Rep Power
    97

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    Some more 3DO stuff for Blades
    I wonder how much Trip had to do with the demise of 3DO. Seems like he "embellishes" the truth in almost every situation.

  6. #51
    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Wales, UK
    Posts
    6,378
    Rep Power
    73

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Blades View Post
    I wonder how much Trip had to do with the demise of 3DO. Seems like he "embellishes" the truth in almost every situation.
    He's just a typical salesman, Takes all the credit for the good, none the bad and looks to blames others. I still have a lot of time and respect for Trip mind.
    I don't agree with views and opinions a lot of the time. But he was a forward thinker and what he did with EA was really incredible and I liked the idea behind the 3DO; low development fee's, no region locking, no need for games to go through so called quality control. I just didn't like the price or the concept that hardware manufacturers only made a profit from the hardware sales and not the software.

    I love my 3DO. I couldn't get it on its USA launch and had to wait for the 1st price drop for the system in the UK (sadly 50 Hz only). I snapped it up as I was so desperate to get one for Super Wing Commander. It a great system with some amazing games, sad more people don't give it much time
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
    one of the best 3D shooting games available
    Presented for your pleasure

  7. #52
    Hero of Algol TrekkiesUnite118's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Age
    33
    Posts
    8,301
    Rep Power
    137

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    Yes, There's plenty of brilliant examples of Cinepak, but when you saw the best of Truemotion like in Lupin the 3rd it just seemed better with fewer artefacts.
    Lupin works for Truemotion because it's low color. That said, Cinepak I'd say easily beats it in the likes of Tengai Makyou or Lunar 2:



    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    Speaking of Softdec, CRI also said that they had developed a version of Mpegsoftdec for the Saturn too but it came too late.
    Yes, and it was used in a few games. However the results aren't great. It runs in a small window and at a low frame rate:



    I'd say EA's MPEG like codecs beat it as well as Grandia's custom MPEG DCT based codec. Grandia's may still be 10-12fps, but they're higher resolution and fullscreen:

  8. #53
    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Wales, UK
    Posts
    6,378
    Rep Power
    73

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118 View Post
    Lupin works for Truemotion because it's low color. That said, Cinepak I'd say easily beats it in the likes of Tengai Makyou or Lunar 2:]
    I was always super impressed with the quality of Truemotion in the likes of Digital Dance Mix, Riven and Harukaze Sentai which along with Lupin were for me the best examples of FMV. Digital Dance FMV looked like it was being played on the PS it looked so impressive more so for the live films, where it would always show up poor quality fmv


    Yes, and it was used in a few games
    Thanks for that, You know I never knew it was in Vatlva LOL. I own the game and played it a lot back in the day, but that was on my Saturn with the Video Card in it . Like I said before I so wished more games on the Saturn looked to use the Mpeg card for FMV

    I also have to say that I wasn't that impressed with FMV on the 3DO myself. I didn't think it was great in Madden, Need for Speed looked rough and Mad Dog Mcaree was horrible. It gets little credit, but back then I was super impressed with the quality of the FMV to Microcosm on the CD32. One of my biggest regrets is giving away my CD32 for nothing to make room . I would have liked to own an FM Towns Marty as that had some nice games and FMV in it too, but even back then it was a little out of my price range.
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
    one of the best 3D shooting games available
    Presented for your pleasure

  9. #54
    The Gaming Gangsta Master of Shinobi profholt82's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    2,106
    Rep Power
    85

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    I also have to say that I wasn't that impressed with FMV on the 3DO myself. I didn't think it was great in Madden, Need for Speed looked rough and Mad Dog Mcaree was horrible. It gets little credit, but back then I was super impressed with the quality of the FMV to Microcosm on the CD32. One of my biggest regrets is giving away my CD32 for nothing to make room . I would have liked to own an FM Towns Marty as that had some nice games and FMV in it too, but even back then it was a little out of my price range.
    Man, I had the exact opposite reaction to 3do FMV. My buddy, who lived down the street growing up, had a high end PC and we played a lot of contemporary games on it. What comes to mind for me was playing several of those same games on the Sega CD later, and being severely disappointed with their quality by comparison. Off hand, Star Wars Rebel Assault and Mad Dog McRee come to mind as games in which the SCD experience was painful by comparison. I'd say Willy Beamish as well, but my gripe was with the slow loading as that game actually looked pretty good on the SCD. Star Wars and Mad Dog were blurry, pixelated messes on the SCD however, and I found them unplayable after having played them on a competent PC.

    That said, several years later (I didn't get to play the 3do until another buddy got one in 96 or 97 after it was on its death knell), I played those same two games on the 3do and was very impressed with the quality. Wow, I thought, these games actually look and play like they did on the PC. I couldn't believe a console could match the PC, it seemed unheard of at the time. We also played a lot of Road Rash and Fifa Soccer on that thing, and I was smitten with 3do. I ended up getting a Playstation shortly thereafter, but it was only because 3do had either been discontinued by then or was impossible to find in stores.

    Incidentally, I am now the proud owner of that exact 3do, it's an FZ-10. About 5-6 years ago, that same buddy and I got together for the first time in a while and I asked him about it. He said it was still in his parents' basement, and we made a trade for it. I'm still a big fan of the console, although I'll admit that it was probably for the best that I got a Playstation in 97/98 than a 3do. It would have been the 32x disappointment all over again if I had to watch the plug get pulled on my new console right after getting it.

    Perhaps if I had access to a CD32 I would have felt differently, like you, but my only real comparison at that time of FMV on consoles would have been on the Sega CD. And the 3do blew my expectations out of the water by comparison.

  10. #55
    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Wales, UK
    Posts
    6,378
    Rep Power
    73

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by profholt82 View Post
    Man, I had the exact opposite reaction to 3do FMV. My buddy, who lived down the street growing up, had a high end PC and we played a lot of contemporary games on it. What comes to mind for me was playing several of those same games on the Sega CD later, and being severely disappointed with their quality by comparison. Off hand, Star Wars Rebel Assault and Mad Dog McRee come to mind as games in which the SCD experience was painful by comparison. I'd say Willy Beamish as well, but my gripe was with the slow loading as that game actually looked pretty good on the SCD. Star Wars and Mad Dog were blurry, pixelated messes on the SCD however, and I found them unplayable after having played them on a competent PC. .
    The Mega CD was a add on and given the MD palet it was amazing half of the FMV games looked as good as they did. Willy Beamish wasn't really an FMV and while I loved a lot of the old dos PC CD from games the FMV was poor at times, I agree
    The trouble was I was seeing the FMV stuff like the FM Towns Marty was doing in my import shop and that impressed me and I had the Philips CDI which wiped the floor with any system for FMV (ok you had have the Video Card). 3DO FMV was nice but in a lot of games it wasn't always good and I was more impressed with the Batman FMV that came on the sample disc. I was quite impressed with the FMV in Microcosm on the CD32 I will say I thought it looked better than the Marty version

    3DO blew my mind for graphics and sound mind. I a massive a huge step up and a totally wonderful system. I have to say that while I never owned one, my import shop used to have a display model and the FMV on the PC FX was some of the best I had ever seen at the time, incredible quality and so fast and smooth.

    I also have to say when it comes to Saturn FMV Road Adv/Cobra Commander and TimGal/Ninja really impressed me. My import shop used to have that Laserative system and it was amazing how close the Saturn version of Road Avenger was to the Laserdisc with its FMV to the LaserDisc I still rather the Mega CD version mind and think it's the best LOL
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
    one of the best 3D shooting games available
    Presented for your pleasure

  11. #56
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingRoad Rasher
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Posts
    420
    Rep Power
    17

    Default

    Yeah, the SegaCD FMV games were impressive.. for like a week or so, and then it's like lets get some real games. Out of all the FMV SCD games though, Silpheed did it best. Road Avenger was 2nd. I didn't like any of the others. FMV is fine, just not as a core part of the game.

    Back on topic. I was really disappointed at early and mid release Saturn FMV. As in, it should have looked at least near PS1 quality. I really hated the cine-pak artifacts. Even on PC games that displayed it. I didn't own a 3DO, but a friend had it. I borrowed it for a bit, and decided not to buy one. The graphics were indeed amazing, but all the games just sort of sucked IMO. All of them. But yeah, I was reading over the official tech docs for the 3DO because I was curious as to just how capable it was. It had some neat features, but definitely no acceleration for FMV. If it looked better, it was down to tools/software like trekkie said. Everything trekkie said is right spot on.

  12. #57
    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Wales, UK
    Posts
    6,378
    Rep Power
    73

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by turboxray View Post
    But yeah, I was reading over the official tech docs for the 3DO because I was curious as to just how capable it was. It had some neat features, but definitely no acceleration for FMV.
    It was a step up, but that was no doubt also helped by the move to the double speed drive and expanded colours. I was very impressed how some Sega CD FMV was given its issues with the limited colour's and also slow drive. I loved quite a lot of the old Dos FMV games and I remember when I got a Pentium MMX being rather impressed with the FMV in Jonny Mnemonic, a shame the game was poor. The CDi gets no love, but I can't tell you how impressive it was, when The 7th Guest launched on the system, it was like laser disc quality. Philips really put some effort into their Mpeg decoding.

    Sometimes mind getting full quality FMV could hurt. I loved Dracula Unleashed on the Mega CD its one of my old time fav games and bought the DVD version, but the quality of the FMV is so good, the cheap sets stook out like a soar thumb and it lost it's B-Movie feel and look that you got in the Mega CD version.
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
    one of the best 3D shooting games available
    Presented for your pleasure

  13. #58
    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Wales, UK
    Posts
    6,378
    Rep Power
    73

    Default

    Some of 3D0 for Blades. The other 2 interviews and 1 supplement are in my mums garage and I can't be bothered to go there at the moment sorry





    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
    one of the best 3D shooting games available
    Presented for your pleasure

  14. #59
    Hero of Algol TrekkiesUnite118's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Age
    33
    Posts
    8,301
    Rep Power
    137

    Default

    Ok TA, how does this look?:



    Not sure if in the end it's actually better than Sega's attempt being that the best I could find was a promotional Video CD encode, but I think it turned out looking decent.

  15. #60
    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Wales, UK
    Posts
    6,378
    Rep Power
    73

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118 View Post
    Ok TA, how does this look?:



    Not sure if in the end it's actually better than Sega's attempt being that the best I could find was a promotional Video CD encode, but I think it turned out looking decent.
    Much better than SEGA's pathetic offering still some artifacting thanks to the original source material but nothing you can do about that, great work boss
    I was playing replaying Digital Dance Mix the other day and I have to say that possibly the best example of Saturn FMV I have ever seen, really holds up well even today. Totally full screen and epic quality that matches the best of the PS FMV. I was also playing Harukaze Sentai recently its True motion is stunning too, though not quite fullscreen and back in the day I really liked how many PS titles had wonderful FMV at fullscreen

    After what you said too I played VATLVA on one of my Saturn's without the FMV card and while the MpegSoft Dec is of nice quality the window is super small and not the smoothest, I think both Cinepak and True FMV were more impressive, Looks stunning mind when using the Mpeg Card. Speaking of the Mpeg Card LOL

    I was also recently playing Moon Cradle again, not really sure why it really needed to use Mpeg but I so wished it got translated I was really getting back into it and its music is just stuck in my head
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
    one of the best 3D shooting games available
    Presented for your pleasure

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •