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Thread: How much was Sega CD's success limited by the fact that it was a $300 add on?

  1. #91
    Raging in the Streets goldenband's Avatar
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    ^To your point, I still bought blank cassettes through the 1990s, until the advent of cheap CDRs. I used them to make mixtapes, record albums from my friends or the library, and tape live performances. Only when blank CDs went down to $2-3/each did I stop buying tapes.

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    I still made music mix tapes (even made a Galactic Attack/Layer Section music tape), from CDs back the 90s. Every car maker was still putting cassette decks in cars well into the late 90s, because they were cheap. Even my high end 1995 Mustang GT had a cassette deck, and I used one of these until I got a 10 disk changer put in the trunk. You plugged a cassette into the player and inserted the tape into your car deck.




    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    Mr Vet,

    I think you're just being condescending. I would say in 1992 the cassette format was more dominant You keep on saying about affordable?. How much did the TurboGrafa CD and Sega CD cost on their USA launches?
    Well, when you keep arguing just for the sake of it, you're going to get put in your place.

    The discussion was not about CD ROM drives. You were saying that people weren't buying CDs, which is totally different. A CD ROM burner for a PC would cost twice as much as both of those ROM drives back in 1992. Hell, even in 2002 a CD ROM Burner would set you back about $200.


    And sorry to you Europeans, but you guys were so ass backwards when it came to media. All of your 80s computer games were mostly on cassettes, while finding a game (not on a floppy in the United States) was near impossible.
    Last edited by gamevet; 01-27-2022 at 07:40 PM.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



  3. #93
    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    I still made music mix tapes (even made a Galactic Attack/Layer Section music tape), from CDs back the 90s. Every car maker was still putting cassette decks in cars well into the late 90s, because they were cheap. Even my high end 1995 Mustang GT had a cassette deck, and I used one of these until I got a 10 disk changer put in the trunk. You plugged a cassette into the player and inserted the tape into your car deck.






    Well, when you keep arguing just for the sake of it, you're going to get put in your place.

    The discussion was not about CD ROM drives. You were saying that people weren't buying CDs, which is totally different. A CD ROM burner for a PC would cost twice as much as both of those ROM drives back in 1992. Hell, even in 2002 a CD ROM Burner would set you back about $200.


    And sorry to you Europeans, but you guys were so ass backwards when it came to media. All of your 80s computer games were mostly on cassettes, while finding a game (not on a floppy in the United States) was near impossible.
    What game delivery mechanism did the C64 use for its Game format ?, I also said nothing about CD burners . Just how in 1991 and 92 many got music from the cassette and far more seemed to use cassettes in their cars .

    Btw it was the silly ass Euro lot , who invited the CD concept.
    Last edited by Team Andromeda; 01-29-2022 at 05:26 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raijin Z View Post
    In my experience, the Sega CD and 3DO were owned primarily by people whose income was sourced through unlicensed urban pharmacology. Legitimately wealthy people skipped directly from cartridges to Saturns and PSXs.
    Not even. If you were a teen at the time, with a job, this was totally within your range. My friends and I, all had at least part time jobs. Enough to save up and buy stuff like this. My friend bought the SegaCD and I bought the Turbo Duo at launch. Both were $299. And after a bit, I was gonna save up for a SegaCD and he was gonna save up for a Duo. I ended up putting off the SegaCD because of the software at the time, but he got a Duo a month later. No of us were rich, and I wasn't even entry-level middle class at the time.

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    I also don't think the price was such a determining factor, even in Brazil where we were always very poor, we saved money or paid in installments to buy the Videogame, of course a Neo Geo AES was rare and was totally out, but 300 on the Sega CD still was at stake.
    It is very obvious that the lack of genuine support was the big problem, this division of attention with the Mega Drive (with an even greater participation for the Mega) was decisive.
    If Sega adopted the CD as the main one, maybe it would be different.
    Imagine that Captain Commando, among others using the Final Fight CD engine, could have made a big noise, or even Rondo Of Blood?
    Even so, I really like the Sega CD and it's an excellent complement to the Mega Drive, Lunar and Snatcher are true gems.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    What game delivery mechanism did the C64 use for its Game format?
    Floppies you silly fool!

    Broke ass Europeans were still using the old ass cassette, while North American developers ditched that old format and used the more flexible floppy disks, that provided far superior storage space for bigger games. You wanted a game in the US, you got a floppy drive.





    I also said nothing about CD burners . Just how in 1991 and 92 many got music from the cassette and far more seemed to use cassettes in their cars .
    How people played their music in their car was never part of the discussion, other than you using that as a means to prove that CDs weren't selling that well. That was made pretty obvious by a post from Centrale, that showed that music CD sales pushed aside cassettes by 1991. Do you need to be reminded, or are your knuckles to big to press the mouse button on the link?

    https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/anima...-1973-to-2019/



    Btw it was the silly ass Euro lot , who invited the CD concept.
    No it wasn't. An American inventor named James T Russell invented and patented CD technology. Philips and Sony agreed to work together to develop it and paid royalties for its use.

    https://history-computer.com/compact-disc/
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    Last edited by gamevet; 01-30-2022 at 09:11 PM.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



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    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    Floppies you silly fool!

    WOW what a collection of games. Most games came on cassettes some of the best C64 games were tape only and I would put to you tape versions sold the best
    The ZX spectrum could also use ROM carts or floppies. Amstrad CPC was one of the 1st systems to ship with a floppy drive as standard, and the Atari ST & Amiga sold well in Euroland

    Also, I never said CD didn't sell well, just it took a bit of time for them to get established due to the high price of the players in the early 90's, not just for music players, but gaming systems too and on the PC. The high price didn't help with the launch of the Mega-CD in the USA or Europe, along with not enough stellar games. Most would have seen that.


    I thought it was the Scots who beat everyone to the punch with optical media BTW .
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  8. #98
    Raging in the Streets Blades's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    No it wasn't. An American inventor named James T Russell invented and patented CD technology. Philips and Sony agreed to work together to develop it and paid royalties for its use.

    https://history-computer.com/compact-disc/
    I didn't know that, Russell's name seems absent from a lot of histories about CD.

    I've always thought CD was a remarkable invention, from the first time I saw a disc and player.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    WOW what a collection of games. Most games came on cassettes some of the best C64 games were tape only and I would put to you tape versions sold the best
    The ZX spectrum could also use ROM carts or floppies. Amstrad CPC was one of the 1st systems to ship with a floppy drive as standard, and the Atari ST & Amiga sold well in Euroland.
    I have over 300 floppies with pirated games and at least 30 floppies with games Iíd bought from retail. I couldnít believe that people were actually able to run The Bardís Tale on a cassette. Iíd read that they had to read the number on the cassette drive to rewind to a spot that the game needed to load from, or to save to. What a pain in the ass that must have been. I actually bought one title from a Dalton books. C64 games on floppies were everywhere, while games on cassette were rarer than the carts. I associate cassettes with the older/cheaper computers like the TRS-80 and Vic-20.

    I know of EA long before the Genesis existed. They brought over a bunch of games from Europe.

    And yeah, Europe got up to date with the 16-hit computer, because they didnít use cassettes. A lot of those 8-bit computer games on cassette were cheap crap and Iíve seen plenty of UK vids talking about the as nothing more than cash grabs and bad licensed games.
    Last edited by gamevet; 02-01-2022 at 12:13 PM.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



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    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    I have over 300 floppies with pirated games and at least 30 floppies with games Iíd bought from retail. I couldnít believe that people were actually able to run The Bardís Tale on a cassette. Iíd read that they had to read the number on the cassette drive to rewind to a spot that the game needed to load, or to save to. What a pain in the ass that must have been.

    I know of EA long before the Genesis existed. They brought over a bunch of games from Europe.

    I doubt that was on the C64. I still got loads of floppies from my ST days.






    I really don't get the EA point either, maybe that's for another thread ?
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  11. #101
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    I wouldnít mention it, if I didnít see it.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/retrogaming..._c64_cassette/

    I brought up EA, because they imported the best games from Europe for the C64 and Atari 400/800 computer in the US. Thatís how the company got started. US Gold also imported games to here.

    Iíll post a pic when I get home.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    I wouldnít mention it, if I didnít see it.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/retrogaming..._c64_cassette/

    I brought up EA, because they imported the best games from Europe for the C64 and Atari 400/800 computer in the US. Thatís how the company got started. US Gold also imported games to here.

    Iíll post a pic when I get home.
    What that's got to do with Foppies I don't now
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
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    Presented for your pleasure

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    What that's got to do with Foppies I don't now
    You were saying that some of the best games were on cassette. I was saying that EA and US Gold brought over the best games from Europe and put them on floppies.

    And, according to what Iíve heard from Europeans, there were several companies that put out a lot of fodder on cassettes and sold them for £10 there.



    Here's the C64 boxes, with many being packaged like records in North America. It was an idea that EA came up with and others followed.




    Here's the Amiga boxes with a few C64 boxes that I'd missed.







    C64 floppies on the left. Amiga floppies on the right.




    American C64 owners would dish out @$200 for the floppy drive and we'd copy games from each other and friend of our friends would exchange with them. This was in the 80s', so buying a CD player for $200 wasn't much different.
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    Last edited by gamevet; 02-01-2022 at 08:17 PM.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



  14. #104
    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
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    I simply put to you that many people on the C64 gamed on the cassette and not many in 1982/3 would be looking to shell out $200 for the Disc drive, given inflation that must have been a huge sum of money back then.
    Still, you overlook that the rival microcomputers also had a Floppy Disc and ROM, but most went with the cassette due to the price and you could copy games on cassette very easy too and I' never had a C64, but the ZX Spectrum floppy wasn't at all that reliable and the cassette versions of the same games were cheaper and the only ROM game I ever bought for it, was Cookie and for much the same reasons I mainly bought cassette games on my Atari 800XL rather than the Carts. You also seem to overlook how well the ST and Amiga sold in UK too


    I just say it took a bit of time for CD's to take off for the masses. Not only were the CD players more expensive in the late 80's and early '90s but to buy music on the CD was double or sometimes triple that for the exact same album on tape. I would imagine that was also true in the USA in the late 80's early 90's?

    The Mega-CD huge price tag was a big barrier for many IMO, not then helped but not enough good games coming out on a regular basis compared to the MD. Very much like the PSVR on the PS4. High price and not good enough support from SONY with its In-House games, very much like the Mega CD.
    Last edited by Team Andromeda; 02-02-2022 at 02:31 AM.
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
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    Presented for your pleasure

  15. #105
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    They did not in the United States. Iím telling you dude, what happens in Europe is not comparable to here. Every Apple II computer was paired with a disk drive and that was twice the price of a C64. A lot of the big games, including Ultima, weíre developed on an Apple Computer. Finding C64 or Apple games on a cassette was nigh impossible. I borrowed my friends C64 cassette drive and when I went to buy some games, I ended up with Forbidden forest (cassette and floppy) and Star Trek on a cart. You wanted to play computer games here, you needed a floppy drive and I saved up to get one a couple of months later. Even the PET computers we had in school were paired with a floppy drive.

    Again, Centraleís link shows CD sales overtaking cassette in 1991, so stop pulling facts out of your ass.
    Last edited by gamevet; 02-02-2022 at 11:29 AM.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



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