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Thread: DOOM 32X Resurrection

  1. #121
    Hero of Algol
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulis View Post
    Yeah, level design/engine wise, AVP is like Wolfenstein 3D with higher res textures/sprites and textured ceilings/floors. And even compared to that old game there are some regressions such as slower speed/frame rate and shorter draw distance.

    For these reasons i never understood why this game was chosen as the "killer app". DOOM on the same console does more.
    The Alien franchise was still really hot at the time for video games and it was innovative for the multi-campaign types, the predator vision, the transparent HUD, etc. The textures were "photorealistic" for the time, it really captures that cold eerie vibe of the first movie and mixes it with the more action-oriented and chatty "Aliens".
    Really good sound package too.


    Quote Originally Posted by Soulis View Post
    Evidently though, the 32X seems to handle DOOM much better than a 386. Especially the resurrection mod.
    Although it's on romhacking.net, it's not really a mod. It's a complete rewrite, re-port from the Jaguar Doom and Calico Doom sources with additional pieces of code, bug fixes, and optimization by Vic.
    No less than 1,200 source code commits so far: https://github.com/viciious/d32xr


    Quote Originally Posted by Soulis View Post
    But even the original, rushed port, would run DOOM at a better speed, even if you used low detail and the same sized window on the 386. I remember playing DOOM on a friend's 386 (though i have no idea which exact model that was) and in some parts the frame rate would drop below 5 fps even at low detail + a window as big as a stamp. It was unplayable. It was probably a slower SX but in some YouTube videos i see DOOM struggling hard even on a DX/40.
    Quote Originally Posted by axel View Post
    On those slower systems it really seems to depend on the video card. If you have an ISA card installed Doom is a literal slideshow. If you have an EISA card or better yet VLB (admittedly rare on a 386) the performance gets a lot better. I wish I still had my old 386DX/40 to test. I think it got about 20 fps in low detail mode. It probably was a bit worse than the original 32X game.
    Well, the 1994 release of Doom for the 32X was a really cut-down version of the game in comparison to the DOS original though:
    - Only front-facing sprites.
    - Simplified/cut-down sound propagation algorithm inherited from the Jaguar code, so more stationary enemies and fewer group attacks in general.
    - Simplified geometry.
    - Reduced texture variability, which also favors performance and less RAM usage.

    And it was running at 10-15fps in a bordered screen in low detail mode without most of the lighting effects and with the 32X handling no sound-related tasks AFAIK.

    Still, for how rushed and unoptimized it was, and running off a single CPU; you really have to thank the SH2 processing power for it being a playable version of the game.
    Last edited by Barone; 06-11-2022 at 02:37 AM.

  2. #122
    Underground Sega Nut BonusKun's Avatar
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    Sega CD

    I had a chance to look at this game. I swear to god the differences are beyond amazing. I wish I could just swap out my current cart for this version and pretend the other didn't exist. To me the ultimate version of this game would be on the 32X with the Sega CD being used to play back the soundtrack.
    05/05/15

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post
    Well, the 1994 release of Doom for the 32X was a really cut-down version of the game in comparison to the DOS original though:
    - Only front-facing sprites.
    - Simplified/cut-down sound propagation algorithm inherited from the Jaguar code, so more stationary enemies and fewer group attacks in general.
    - Simplified geometry.
    - Reduced texture variability, which also favors performance and less RAM usage.

    And it was running at 10-15fps in a bordered screen in low detail mode without most of the lighting effects and with the 32X handling no sound-related tasks AFAIK.

    Still, for how rushed and unoptimized it was, and running off a single CPU; you really have to thank the SH2 processing power for it being a playable version of the game.
    Correct, the reduced textures are really noticeable in the later levels, I end up getting disoriented because everything looks brown.
    I never did count the FPS properly, if original 32X Doom is only 10-15 then my 386 definitely wasn't hitting 20.
    What I noticed on older PCs though is that if you make the game window tiny then it renders 60 fps, so the game engine is not a problem at all, it's the rendering time that kills performance.
    It's been a long time so I could be wrong but I thought with most ISA cards the CPU can't run game logic and render the screen at the same time, it has to do one then the other.

    My point though is that this is where the 32X had the chance to shine back in the day, it could have been an inexpensive platform for DOS ports at a time when PCs typically cost $1500 to $2000.

  4. #124
    Underground Sega Nut BonusKun's Avatar
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    I agree with you Axel. If some serious development time was spent on this game seeing the results we're seeing now, this could have really pushed more people into buying this failed add-on.

    Honestly I liked the 32X for what it was but the timing of it's release along with SoJ already preparing to bring out the Saturn really left a very sour taste in people's mouths.

    God damn shame since I felt the 32X deserved better.
    05/05/15

  5. #125
    Master of Shinobi Soulis's Avatar
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    PC DOOM was locked at 35 fps so even on a Pentium with a tiny window you couldn't hit 60. Only on modern source ports you can do that AFAIK.

    32X DOOM is pretty smooth, around 20 fps average. It can hit 30fps but also drop below 20. On a 386 DX/40 you get a bit worse performance (with much lower lows) with low detail/same sized window. But as mentioned before, PC Doom has more texture variety and more complex geometry than the console versions.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulis View Post
    PC DOOM was locked at 35 fps so even on a Pentium with a tiny window you couldn't hit 60. Only on modern source ports you can do that AFAIK.

    32X DOOM is pretty smooth, around 20 fps average. It can hit 30fps but also drop below 20. On a 386 DX/40 you get a bit worse performance (with much lower lows) with low detail/same sized window. But as mentioned before, PC Doom has more texture variety and more complex geometry than the console versions.
    OK thanks I learn something new every time I'm here

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulis View Post
    PC DOOM was locked at 35 fps so even on a Pentium with a tiny window you couldn't hit 60. Only on modern source ports you can do that AFAIK.

    32X DOOM is pretty smooth, around 20 fps average. It can hit 30fps but also drop below 20. On a 386 DX/40 you get a bit worse performance (with much lower lows) with low detail/same sized window. But as mentioned before, PC Doom has more texture variety and more complex geometry than the console versions.
    Back then, PC monitors were 70Hz, that's why it was locked at 35 fps and not 30 fps like would be common later on.

    The framerate is lower depending on the difficulty setting you're using due to the amount of enemies (sprites) and even the amount of AI entities you activate at once.

    As a side note, DF Retro's episode on Doom measured framerates apparently using the "Hurt me plenty" difficulty level which is not what actual Doom players use. It's either Ultra-Violence or Nightmare (which in the Jag and 32X ports is the equivalent of Ultra-Violence Fast on PC).

    When I discuss Doom framerate, I'm using Ultra-Violence performance as the parameter.


    Quote Originally Posted by axel View Post
    OK thanks I learn something new every time I'm here
    To be honest, I don't think it makes sense to play the original Doom at 60+ fps. The physics, the movement speed, and the timings on doors/lifts were adjusted for 35 fps and not 60 fps.

    The same can be said about the textures. With 64x64 flats it doesn't really make sense to play it at an internal resolution higher than 640 x 480 (or actually 640 x 400) IMHO.
    The texture resolution, the texture complexity, the geometry complexity, the palette "resolution", the number of shading levels, and the Monitor/TV native resolution and their definition (which is a separate thing for CRTs) are supposed to go hand in hand.

    Several of the original PC Doom textures look like a noisy mess when imported to the old console ports running at 160px wide (doubling pixels horizontally). At 160px wide, you simply don't have enough horizontal resolution to visually describe those textures properly.
    OTOH, 64x64 flats with heavy filtering and blown up to 4K also look like crap.

  8. #128
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingOutrunner Stifu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BonusKun View Post
    To me the ultimate version of this game would be on the 32X with the Sega CD being used to play back the soundtrack.
    Just to clarify in case you did not know, this is already supported. It has been fixed in version 2.1.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stifu View Post
    Just to clarify in case you did not know, this is already supported. It has been fixed in version 2.1.
    True... its been fixed and the patch was released on romhacking today June 13th.
    And while its also been pointed out that following the WIP is best, its also not something most even know about.
    https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/6269/

  10. #130
    Road Rasher Assault9's Avatar
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    I had a quick question regarding both version 2.0 and 2.1 of Doom Resurrection. I recently tried running it through my Mega Everdrive on a S-Video modded Genesis model 2 and found that the game runs, I can hear the sound effects and music and hear the manipulation of the menus with my controller and even start the game, but all I have is a black screen the whole time. Any other 32X game I try using this unit with works perfectly so I'm not quite sure what could be affecting Resurrection. Does anyone have an idea what could be causing the black screen here?
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  11. #131
    Master of Shinobi Pyron's Avatar
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    I don't know if it's already been mentioned, but on Linux Tech tips Doom Ressurection was cited as one of the best reasons for you use rom hack from the community.



    Visit my youtube channel Pyron's Lair
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  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Assault9 View Post
    I had a quick question regarding both version 2.0 and 2.1 of Doom Resurrection. I recently tried running it through my Mega Everdrive on a S-Video modded Genesis model 2 and found that the game runs, I can hear the sound effects and music and hear the manipulation of the menus with my controller and even start the game, but all I have is a black screen the whole time. Any other 32X game I try using this unit with works perfectly so I'm not quite sure what could be affecting Resurrection. Does anyone have an idea what could be causing the black screen here?
    First of all, thanks for reporting it.

    One question though: Are you able to see the Doom fire animation logo screen and the opening credits screen or even those are not displayed to you?

    Well, it reminded me of this (from AtariAge):





    So, seeing that you cited using a Genesis 2, I'd begin by suspecting that it may be causing the issue. It would be interesting if you could identify which board revision of Genesis 2 is yours.

    The fact that other 32X games work on your setup does not automatically mean that the D32XR is the actual culprit.
    The 32X games vary a lot in terms of how they use the Genesis + 32X resources, and D32XR is using some features that other games are not using.

    I usually use JP Mega Drive 1-based 32X setups. I did extensively test D32XR on both a JP VA0 Super 32X and a US VA1 Genesis 32X; the game runs rock solid on both; that includes stress testing, etc.
    I don't own a working Genesis 2 (the one I have here died years ago and no one managed to fix) but I now own a Genesis 3. I'll test D32XR on it and report back here.

    EDIT: I just tested it with my Genesis 3 and it works fine. Vic owns a Genesis 2 and it works fine for him as well.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pyron View Post
    I don't know if it's already been mentioned, but on Linux Tech tips Doom Ressurection was cited as one of the best reasons for you use rom hack from the community.
    NICE!!! I wasn't aware of that (just shared it with Vic). Thanks for sharing it!
    Last edited by Barone; 06-16-2022 at 06:57 AM.

  13. #133
    Master of Shinobi Soulis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulis View Post
    32X DOOM is pretty smooth, around 20 fps average. It can hit 30fps but also drop below 20. On a 386 DX/40 you get a bit worse performance (with much lower lows) with low detail/same sized window. But as mentioned before, PC Doom has more texture variety and more complex geometry than the console versions.
    I'm quoting my own post to correct myself. 32X DOOM is actually smoother than 20fps on average. It stays at 30fps most of the time to be frank. And i don't think it drops below 20fps, except maybe some very intense scenarios in Ultra Violence?

    This proves the 32X handles DOOM much better than a 386 DX/40. Sure, Console DOOM games have some simplifications as Barone mentioned, like a somewhat less complex level geometry. But DOOM on the 32X is also a rushed port and Resurrection proves it. While the PC version of DOOM was made and optimized specifically for PCs. Even with the slightly simplified level geometry i highly doubt a 386 would run DOOM Resurrection as fast as the 32X.

  14. #134
    Hero of Algol TrekkiesUnite118's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post

    EDIT: I just tested it with my Genesis 3 and it works fine. Vic owns a Genesis 2 and it works fine for him as well.
    I just tested on my Model 2 Genesis with a Model 2 CD and it works fine as well. My 32X is actually one of the earlier ones with a buggy SH-2 so it's had quite a bit of trouble running this in the past. However since Vic tracked down the issue it hasn't had a problem since.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soulis View Post
    I'm quoting my own post to correct myself. 32X DOOM is actually smoother than 20fps on average. It stays at 30fps most of the time to be frank. And i don't think it drops below 20fps, except maybe some very intense scenarios in Ultra Violence?
    Well, it depends on what settings you're running. If you run full screen in high detail mode the 32X hovers around 15-20fps. Now if you're in full screen low detail mode it pretty much stays at 30fps with only a few dips it seems.

  15. #135
    Road Rasher Assault9's Avatar
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    Thanks for the reply Barone. I don't see any of the opening animation as the screen is completely black from the time I turn the system on.

    I'm pretty sure the model 2 Genesis is a VA4 revision. However, I swapped the 32X to my Model 1 HDG Genesis that's been modded for S-Video, Region Free and full cap replacement and it had the exact same issue as the model 2 which could mean my 32X might be the real culprit here. I just wish that 32X adaptor for the Mega SG had come out so I could test it out on that system to be sure. I'll have to look at those adapter cables from the UK or invest in a new 32X to see if that might clear up the issue.

    Update - I just tested pausing the game and hitting the Mode button several times as you suggested and the debug information such as the FPS counter and other numbers did appear.
    Last edited by Assault9; 06-16-2022 at 02:08 PM.
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