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Thread: JRPGs VS western RPGs?

  1. #31
    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leynos View Post
    Japan invented action RPGs

    I would have thought you would have had more knowledge than that. Like with consoles and so many genre's in games, it was the west who invented RPG's
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  2. #32
    The Future is Yesterday Hedgehog-in-TrainingESWAT Veteran Leynos's Avatar
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    I know the west invented RPGs numbnuts, Read again.

    Life?!...What console is that on?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Leynos View Post
    I know the west invented RPGs numbnuts, Read again.
    Gamevet schooled you. Some of us were playing action RPG's in the early '80s. Still have the game too

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  4. #34
    Death Bringer ESWAT Veteran Black_Tiger's Avatar
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    Japan invented action RPGs
    Is a game an action RPG if you don't have exp points but do have hit points, navigate an overworld seeking out dungeons which contain a boss and a useful item, some of which are necessary to reach the end of the game, the point of which is to collect the shards of a golden macguffin from bosses in order to make it whole again?

    What if you can hear a boss as you get close to it?
    Quote Originally Posted by year2kill06
    everyone knows nintendo is far way cooler than sega just face it nintendo has more better games and originals

  5. #35
    The Future is Yesterday Hedgehog-in-TrainingESWAT Veteran Leynos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    That's debatable. There were action RPGs on the 8-bit computers, starting with Temple of Apshia and then there was Advanced D&D on the Intellivision.
    I read up on this and watched a lot of video. All seem to decribe it and from the looks of it is a hyrbrid. Still on the side of turn based. This does at least further illistrate my point of the genre of turn based systems came in so many forms. Just since Dragon Quest people think every turn based RPG is selecting from a menu. I could be off on Japan creating the first Action based RPGs but not seen any definintive evidence to overthrow the claim. Tho the first Japanese role playing games are ARPGs. My main issue is just people claiming JRPG as a genre just means one type of battle system and one version of it. The battle system doesn't dertmine the region. That's the other details such as world building. Narrative style. Tropes.

    Then yeah we can get into games like Dragon's Dogma which emulates more of a WRPG styled game. Always exceptions like this. Something like Xenoblade which looks very japanese and is, mixes in WRPG mechanics in the gameplay.

    I'll concede that RPGs esp these days become harder and harder to define. I will always argue Zelda in general are not RPGs but one can argue Zelda II and BOTW are. Is Kingdom Hearts an RPG at this point when they feel more like action adventure? I don't know. Ever since games like Call of Duty starting implementing light RPG mechanics and then about every AAA game since has done the same, the line is very blurry now.

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  6. #36
    End of line.. Shining Hero gamevet's Avatar
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    I just refer to them as classic RPGs and then choose what category best describes them. Japan gets lumped into that because they continued on with the turned based style, while Western Developers went with Dungeon Crawlers (Eye of the Beholder) and action/isometric RPGs like Baldur’s Gate, Diablo, The Immortal and Neverwinter Nights. Now pretty much all of the modern RPGs have moved to open world.
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    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Tiger View Post
    Is a game an action RPG if you don't have exp points but do have hit points, navigate an overworld seeking out dungeons which contain a boss and a useful item, some of which are necessary to reach the end of the game, the point of which is to collect the shards of a golden macguffin from bosses in order to make it whole again?

    What if you can hear a boss as you get close to it?
    Even the term Role Playing is up for debate. I mean do you not play a role in any game? I wouldn't even class Zelda on the N64 as an RPG or the likes of PopfulMail on the Mega CD, They play more like adventure platform games and I've played platform games where you have dungeons, puzzles or can power up. Whatever the case or one's view, you can be sure that 95% that the gameplay style, the idea started life in the West, usually on the old PC or 8-Bit micro way back in the day

    Mind you. what do I know? The only reason I asked for Dungeons and Dragons for my Intellvsion in 84 was I thought it was linked to the 80's cartoon... Oh dear
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  8. #38
    Master of Shinobi WarmSignal's Avatar
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    I've since been reading up on a lot of the confusion in today's gaming landscape. Apparently, it's become a lot harder to define what even is an RPG now. So many modern games are taking elements of the RPG, like exp, leveling, skill trees, etc, to add depth to other games, that there is no major distinction now for what isn't an RPG. I think it comes down to distinguishing between the classic and the modern. If you take same basic formulation as the OG Dragon Quest and modernize it, that would be a classic RPG. If it's infused with an open world FPS, then it's modern.

    I don't think there's any denying that Japan still produces more turn-based games today. I guess there's still a market for it?

    Looking at the latest upcoming NIS America title "The Cruel King and The Great Hero", battles are just random, and it's still turn based, even if it's not super slow and menu driven. Then you have The Legend of Heroes: Trails of Cold Steel IV by Koei Tecmo, a classic menu driven turn based. Whatever Blue Reflection Second Light is by Gust, another turn-based affair with really long attack animations during battle. There's the Akiba's Strip remake put out by Xseed, turn-based. SMT III by Atlus, looks turned based to me. Persona 5 wildly popular game, and the combat looks turn-based.

    Point being, Final Fantasy and others might have moved away from it, but I still see this kind of stuff dropping all the time. I don't really think there's a western equivalent unless you count those grid-based strategy RPGs. This is why there's a perception (and perhaps truth) that Japan still prefers turn based, a lot of games are.

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    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WarmSignal View Post
    I've since been reading up on a lot of the confusion in today's gaming landscape. Apparently, it's become a lot harder to define what even is an RPG now. So many modern games are taking elements of the RPG, like exp, leveling, skill trees, etc, to add depth to other games, that there is no major distinction now for what isn't an RPG. I think it comes down to distinguishing between the classic and the modern. If you take same basic formulation as the OG Dragon Quest and modernize it, that would be a classic RPG. If it's infused with an open world FPS, then it's modern..
    Exactly look at the likes of Tomb Raider. Big narrative story, levelling up, skill trees and even puzzles and dungeons Ect.
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
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  10. #40
    Master of Shinobi WarmSignal's Avatar
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    To follow up on this thought, I was doing an audit of my Xbox 360 collection and realized I had a number of god awful JRPGs for that console that I need to purge. A lot of these come from a time years ago when I used to buy them without looking into the game-play first because everyone online raved about JRPGs all the damn time... especially back then. For a while I just blindly accepted JRPG good.... first person shooter bad.... As that was often the mantra of the age, and probably still is in some circles.

    FFXIII - Strange, combat is something I don't really understand. Graphically good, but looks kinda dull in the gameplay / progression. Dunno. Not compelling.
    The Last Remnant - Turn based battles with generic lizard creatures in brown open plains with nonsense cut-scenes in between each, and weird, annoying characters.
    Magna Carta 2 - Whole game looks like someone spilled bleach on it. Really annoying anime characters with corny tropey drawn out dialog scenes, in between dull, slow combat and big empty corridors.
    Enchanted Arms - Super weird and awkward characters, nonsensical plot, super long dialog scenes in between grid-based strategic battles. A wanna be Final Fantasy vibe, but so much worse.
    Blue Dragon - This is kinda like an old school JRPG, normal dialog, tolerable characters, an actual world to explore, straight forward combat. It looks okay, will probably keep.
    Eternal Sonata - It's really whimsical like Dragon Quest, but maybe even a bit more sappy. I give it points for art style and world, combat looks kinda weird though. Seems to be action-based. On the fence.
    Tales of Vesperia - Typical drawn out JRPG, dreadfully saturated with anying dialog. Graphics are okay, action combat but still loads in each battle instance like a traditional game. Maybe a keeper, but I expected better.
    Infinite Undiscovery - Another weird one. A FF knock off, with screwy combat system but it's action based, the story progresses at a tolerable pace without so much inane gibberish. It's almost like a less weird FF XIII. Might actually keep it.
    Star Ocean Last Hope - Kind of looks and plays like a PS2 anime style JRPG. Mega tons of terrible dialog. Frankly looks boring and convoluted. It's like watching a really bad show, with a little bit of dull combat in between. Made for the garbage can.
    Nier - Looks interesting. An action game with a unique feel and world to explore. Not really sure this is a proper RPG, but a keeper.
    Lost Odyssey - Starts off just like Last Remnant, but then you get to actually do something else in the game. Kind of resembles a PS2 era FF game. Kinda dull. Don't think I'd enjoy it.
    Resonance of Fate - Tedious turn based combat, ugly art style. It's another one of these where there's basically nothing else besides the turn based combat in the game. You select battles from an overhead grid, and that's the whole game. What I call crap.


    I also have a shit ton of western style RPGs on the 360. Not a single one I would wanna actually nix, thankfully. Dark Souls, Elder Scrolls, Two Worlds, Overlord, Risen, Witcher, Divinity II, Dragon Age, Sacred, Dungeon Siege, Circle of Doom, Venetica, Fable... most of it was compelling enough. Don't think I wasted any money on these.

    It's all subjective, but JRPGs just waste shelf space in my home (for the most part). I'll say they've gotten better since this era, some of the PS4 ones are an improvement. Like I'd take the Derek Zoolander Final Fantasy over XIII, I'd take the latest Star Ocean over Last Hope any day, the latest Tales game over Vesperia, etc. All vast improvements.

    I've come to the conclusion that I just don't like most JRPGs from the late 90s up until the mid 2010s. Early to mid 90s are fine, but it went through this really awful era that's thankfully mostly behind us now with the newer games, minus the cruddy publishers like NIS and Idea Factory.

  11. #41
    End of line.. Shining Hero gamevet's Avatar
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    I don't get the obsession Japan has with all of their characters being tweeners, with maybe one adult character who usually isn't part of the group. I think it was Radiant Historia, where I just kind of got annoyed with having a fighter in my group that was essentially a 10 year old boy in a large suit of armor. Stupid!
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



  12. #42
    Master of Shinobi WarmSignal's Avatar
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    The characters are almost always a struggle for me. There's nothing likable, or relatable about the teenage anime kids. They're so awkward, and all seem to have suffered some kind of brain damage, as evidence by basically anything that comes out of their mouth. I guess it's somehow lost in the translation. I don't necessarily love the western type characters either, can be kinda bland and generic, but it's hard not to prefer them over the annoying anime kid.

  13. #43
    Raging in the Streets Blades's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    I don't get the obsession Japan has with all of their characters being tweeners, with maybe one adult character who usually isn't part of the group. I think it was Radiant Historia, where I just kind of got annoyed with having a fighter in my group that was essentially a 10 year old boy in a large suit of armor. Stupid!
    I know lol. I just choose to believe they're adults.

    Some of the dialogue makes that impossible though, especially Working Designs titles.

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