Quantcast

Page 11 of 18 FirstFirst ... 789101112131415 ... LastLast
Results 151 to 165 of 264

Thread: Japan execs were upset that Kalinske was allowed to resign w/o taking blame for 32X

  1. #151
    Master of Shinobi
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,626
    Rep Power
    35

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post
    Agreed but this is the crux of the 32X proposition: had to differentiate itself from all the oher options available in order to carve out a market, however, by promoting the 32X as a Doom machine/arcade at home/3D games machine/etc. it also resulted in reducing the number of potential buyers quite a bit.
    I'd assume that people from 15-20+ were the first ones to quit buying dated/run-of-the-mill 16-bit software and start chasing new/more advanced experiences.

    DKC series wasn't exactly for that audience and it sold a lot, created a huge buzz, etc.
    And, uhm, does Chaotix appeal to "an older audience"? I don't think so.
    I think Ristar is a very good platformer and it could have been a much better showcase of the new platform. It even has music tracks that badly need a PWM upgrade for the samples playback.

    I'd pick Mickey Mania or a Mickey Mania 2 over Tempo, Chaotix and Pitfall TMA any day of the week though. Pitfall TMA is quite better than Pinocchio.
    Knuckles as a character was clearly aimed at an older audience than Mickey Mouse fans, I mean he goes around punching other animals Other than that I agree with you. Ristar with more colors and layers and improved music would have been incredible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post
    Pitfall TMA in itself isn't terrible (surely better than Soccer Kid which was ported to the 3DO and Jaguar); it's a competent platformer, however, the 32X version is indeed terrible. And the game has too much regular 16-bit platforming and collecting for a 32-bit system.

    Tempo is such a mess. The camera is really, really bad; you simply can't see the platforms you're supposed to jump to. And the boss fights, lol, they're atrocious. Busy, convoluted visuals too.
    Gex relied too much on the cool phrases and digitized stuff; I think it really was tailored for the CD format.

    The window for raycasting games would've been 1994/1995 (prior to November when PS1 Doom was launched) I believe. In other words, 1 year at most.
    Wolfenstein 3D probably had to be a launch title as well, since both SNES and Jaguar ports were released in 1994.
    SOA could have paid to reskin it as an Eternal Champions FPS in 1995 and make it super violent/gory.
    That's exactly what they should have done. Get an engine that works and reskin it with popular franchises. A consumer in 1994 isn't going to care that it's a clone of Doom if it's got all new characters, power ups and levels.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post
    Jaguar's AvP should have been ported too.

    Doom is quite clear now that could have been (much) better and, probably, Star Wars: Dark Forces was also doable.
    Doom II, Final Doom (and the other expansions) IDK if could run at 320px on the 32X if we were to preserve how the maps are supposed to be structured, but that's something that we may/may not see answered some time from now. Doom II had appeal, for sure.
    Final Doom on the PSX was already panned by some of the magazines for the lack of innovations and the framerate issues (due to more complex maps), so IDK how commercially and technically viable the game would have been for the 32X.

    Hexen: Beyond Heretic certainly had an appeal but IDK about the 32X having enough RAM to run it properly.
    Strife could have been a good swan song if it could fit in the 32X's specs.

    Let's see how far XProger goes with his 32X port of Tomb Raider. I wonder how much ROM is necessary to cover sounds and music; and if it's possible to reach average 12-15 fps on the system. I think that would have the bare minimum for it to be considered playable back then.
    This is a very, very interesting project to keep an eye on.

    Other than that, in terms of action games, something like a less flashy Loaded and something along the lines of 3DO's Captain Quazar (gameplay, not the lame character) could have been good picks for co-op action games on the system that would also deliver something beyond the regular 16-bit experience.
    The other issue with a game like Doom II is that realistically you need at least an 8 MB ROM. That would have been an expensive cart, not good for a budget console. I checked the PC version of Tomb Raider awhile back, take out the FMVs and it's still around 50 MB. Putting it on the 32X would mean cutting a LOT of textures. I think it would have been better to make a simpler 3D platformer that uses a more cartoonish art style and gouraud shading for most objects. Forget having an open world too, go with a more linear design, that would help hide the limitations of the hardware and the lack of buttons for controlling a camera. I'm picturing something like Floating Runner on the PSX but with Sonic characters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gryson View Post
    Here's a fun piece of relevant history. I stumbled across this fanzine archive and found an article from 1994 about the 32X before its release:

    This is a great perspective from the average user on the 32X.
    Absolutely, it was way too expensive even at $150. A few pages back I looked at the price with inflation, it would be like if today the Switch got a $300 dock upgrade that lets it run games in 4k. Not many people are going to buy that, they would rather wait for a brand new system.

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    What's is in no doubt, is how Doom, Quake and Quake 2 made no major impact on the consoles and sadly the same was true for the likes of Duke Nukem 3D (one of the best games of that gen) You look at the Saturn, N64, PS tops sellers and they're not there, Doom isn't even the best selling game on the Jag. I think it was more the prestige of getting an advanced PC game running on the console that really had a bigger impact and is all a smokescreen
    People didn't rush out to buy a PS in 95 or 96 for PC ports compared to the Saturn or 32X IMO. It was more than SONY looked to totally embrace the Nextgen and 32Bit gaming, while SEGA desperately tried to hang on to ageing, oversaturated declining 16bit market, that so many totally bored 2D users couldn't wait to see the back off, add in the ineptitude of SEGA America; not up to the task of 32 bit production and fecking up the most important IP tp SEGA in SONIC
    I agree with you on this part. Most people did not buy a 5th gen console for PC ports, they bought it for the exclusive games. Having good ports was just a bonus.
    Last edited by axel; 05-30-2022 at 02:29 PM.

  2. #152
    End of line.. Shining Hero gamevet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Dallas, Texas
    Posts
    10,181
    Rep Power
    141

    Default

    Citing sales numbers amongst a sea of games doesn't prove much. Final Fantasy III (North America) only sold 650,000 copies on the SNES. It most certainly doesn't mean that it wasn't an impactful RPG.

    The Jaguar, PlayStation and Saturn all had DOOM clones at or near launch for North America.

    The PS had Kileak: The DNA Imperative, Jag had Aliens vs. Predator and Saturn had Robotica.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kileak...DNA_Imperative

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robotica
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



  3. #153
    Hero of Algol TrekkiesUnite118's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Age
    34
    Posts
    8,541
    Rep Power
    145

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by zyrobs View Post
    Except for that interview with Hideki Sato where he said they were losing so much money, they had to cut production. Given that production was going up until 1996 and then reduced in 1997, logically he'd have to talk about 97-98, so the price reductions were clearly not enough. As far as I'm concerned, that's the closest we have to the bottom line, unless you have some documents giving per-component breakdowns of the prices from 1994 to 1998.
    Didn't really catch this but this was a comment I referenced earlier. We don't know what point in time Sato is referencing here. You're assuming he means 97-98. But that doesn't make sense with what he actually says in that interview. He says there was demand but they were holding back production to avoid losing money. This to me instead points to the period of time during and after the initial Japanese launch. During this time it was reportedly very difficult to find a Saturn and they were generally sold out. We can also look at your serial database and see that during this time with VA0 Saturns they were only being made in smaller quantities in just 2-3 plants in Japan, and only PAL and US models being made in Taiwan getting ready for the launch. Once the VA1 comes out, we see production start to ramp up with a lot more plants making Saturns and the overal number of them just goes up. Once the Model 2 comes out, it ramps up even more. Which considering both models were on the market for ~2 years, we should see a pretty even distribution between them if this production cost issue was constant across it's entire lifetime. But we don't see this. Model 2's are far more common than Model 1 Saturns. Both in just common experience as well as from the Serial Number database.

    This leads me to believe that Sato must be talking about that period of time during and immediately after launch when Saturn was hard to find. It just fits the evidence best there. He states there was demand for Saturn, but they had to hold back production due to high costs. During this time Saturns were selling out, and very hard to find. This fits both the comment about there being demand, and having to hold back production since you have a system selling out constantly. Since they obviously were able to ramp up production later on, I'm inclined to believe the cost reductions had to make some kind of an impact. Especially when you consider production seems to ramp up right around when the VA1 comes out, and it ramps up more when the Model 2 comes out. Price cuts also seem to align very closely to when certain revisions come out and well as with falling RAM prices in the mid 90s.

    It doesn't make sense to think this period Sato is referring to is 97-98. By this point there's less demand for Saturn, and it's not really selling out anywhere either. This slowdown in production is instead tied to something completely different. Sega was getting ready to launch the Dreamcast. Remember Dreamcast launched in November of 1998 in Japan. So this slowdown in Saturn production is instead linked to this, not what Sato was referencing in his interview.

  4. #154
    Master of Shinobi
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    1,540
    Rep Power
    49

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118 View Post
    Didn't really catch this but this was a comment I referenced earlier. We don't know what point in time Sato is referencing here. You're assuming he means 97-98. But that doesn't make sense with what he actually says in that interview. He says there was demand but they were holding back production to avoid losing money. This to me instead points to the period of time during and after the initial Japanese launch. During this time it was reportedly very difficult to find a Saturn and they were generally sold out. We can also look at your serial database and see that during this time with VA0 Saturns they were only being made in smaller quantities in just 2-3 plants in Japan, and only PAL and US models being made in Taiwan getting ready for the launch. Once the VA1 comes out, we see production start to ramp up with a lot more plants making Saturns and the overal number of them just goes up. Once the Model 2 comes out, it ramps up even more. Which considering both models were on the market for ~2 years, we should see a pretty even distribution between them if this production cost issue was constant across it's entire lifetime. But we don't see this. Model 2's are far more common than Model 1 Saturns. Both in just common experience as well as from the Serial Number database.

    This leads me to believe that Sato must be talking about that period of time during and immediately after launch when Saturn was hard to find. It just fits the evidence best there. He states there was demand for Saturn, but they had to hold back production due to high costs. During this time Saturns were selling out, and very hard to find. This fits both the comment about there being demand, and having to hold back production since you have a system selling out constantly. Since they obviously were able to ramp up production later on, I'm inclined to believe the cost reductions had to make some kind of an impact. Especially when you consider production seems to ramp up right around when the VA1 comes out, and it ramps up more when the Model 2 comes out. Price cuts also seem to align very closely to when certain revisions come out and well as with falling RAM prices in the mid 90s.

    It doesn't make sense to think this period Sato is referring to is 97-98. By this point there's less demand for Saturn, and it's not really selling out anywhere either. This slowdown in production is instead tied to something completely different. Sega was getting ready to launch the Dreamcast. Remember Dreamcast launched in November of 1998 in Japan. So this slowdown in Saturn production is instead linked to this, not what Sato was referencing in his interview.
    I disagree.
    For the VA0 units, they pushed a million of them in 4-5 months before the VA1s were ready, then continued producing VA0s until at least 1995 May (serial B50403488 that I owned has the plastic stamped as 1995 May). Also those units sold at a much higher price. So it does not look like they artificially held back production, nor does it look like they were losing that much money (as opposed to the later units which sold for a significantly lower prices).

    Model 1 production started around 1994 last week of October (serial B40004930 that I own has time stamp of October 27). The model 2s started production at least as early as 1996 March, possibly earlier (serial B63078990, has a board stamped for 1996 March 29).
    So that's roughly 1.5 years of production for model ones and 2.5 years for model 2s.
    However by 1998 they were only making limited quantities so really closer to 2 years of continuous production, which would correspond to the model 2s being produced in larger numbers like you said. The last time I tallied the numbers, I came to around 2.6-3 million model 1s and somewhere between 4-5 million model 2s, estimated.

    The demand for the Saturn was definitely still there in 1997 and 1998. They had a lot of very big titles released in those years, plus the Segata Sanshiro ad campaign made it very popular. Sega themselves kept releasing demos discs up till mid 1998.

    But, it was in 1998 where production was visibly slowing down. What leads me to believe this is that according to the serials they had much fewer production runs in 1998, and the 1998 units I disassembled or seen disassembled often had 1997 parts being shared with 1998 ones, which has not been the case for any other units from 1994 to 96 that I took apart.
    But it's mostly the board dates that confirm that they had limited production by that time. VA13 units were produced from 1997 April to at least September in pretty much every month of the year (half a year of continuous production). VA15 units, the last production run, was mostly done in 98 March for the Seiyo Denshi run, plus one in 98 July (normal units) and one in 98 September (derby stallion skeletons) for the Sanwa Denki runs. Unfortunately I haven't seen any of the Asahi Electron made machines disassembled but I know those were in production from as early as 1998 April and as late as 1998 September, however this is based on dates on V-Saturns which account for few thousand units at most. I'll need to buy some more units from that run to confirm this, but this would be a problem right now since prices have risen too much.

    Regardless there's still a huge gap, where for the 1997 machines I can find time stamps for nearly every month until the last quarter of 1997, but for 1998 I can clearly identify limited production runs, based on the motherboard dates of disassembled units - not a continuous production.

    Which is why I think that they started limiting the production in late 1997. This would also correspond to the new CEO being appointed, who shifted the finances of Sega to be more profit oriented.

    edit: and, of course, they sold machines far cheaper in 1997-8, and I do not believe that they managed to reduce production prices by the same amount. So there would have been a bigger gap between production and sale prices in later years, which translates to more money lost on production... so they slow down production to offset this. But production visibly shoots up from 1995 so I doubt he was talking about this period, because reducing production introduces a terminal cascade (less consoles sold equals less buyers for your games), and if they recovered from that as early as 1995, then why even mention the problem as something that killed the machine...?
    Last edited by zyrobs; 05-31-2022 at 07:02 PM.

  5. #155
    Mega Driver Hedgehog-in-TrainingMaster of Shinobi Gryson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    1,544
    Rep Power
    73

    Default

    There were severe shortages of the Saturn in 1995. It sold out during the holiday season, and Sega made the decision to prioritize the Japanese market since it was healthier at that point. We don't know what caused that shortage, but the possibility exists that it was the self-imposed limiting that Sato mentioned.

    There's simply no way to know with the available information.

  6. #156
    Hero of Algol
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    8,292
    Rep Power
    199

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    What's is in no doubt, is how Doom, Quake and Quake 2 made no major impact on the consoles and sadly the same was true for the likes of Duke Nukem 3D (one of the best games of that gen) You look at the Saturn, N64, PS tops sellers and they're not there, Doom isn't even the best selling game on the Jag. I think it was more the prestige of getting an advanced PC game running on the console that really had a bigger impact and is all a smokescreen
    People didn't rush out to buy a PS in 95 or 96 for PC ports compared to the Saturn or 32X IMO. It was more than SONY looked to totally embrace the Nextgen and 32Bit gaming, while SEGA desperately tried to hang on to ageing, oversaturated declining 16bit market, that so many totally bored 2D users couldn't wait to see the back off, add in the ineptitude of SEGA America; not up to the task of 32 bit production and fecking up the most important IP tp SEGA in SONIC
    There's absolutely no doubt you're full of shit.

    Please, learn to read and stop derailing the threads with stupid conjectures you state as facts:
    https://www.resetera.com/threads/hel...e-ports.80127/

    Instead of trying to compare absolute numbers of completely different phases of a console's lifespan you just need to accept the *fact* that out of the PS1 games released in western markets in 1995, only these made the OFFICIAL best seller's lists in both US and EU:
    Ace Combat
    Battle Arena Toshinden
    Ridge Racer
    Tekken
    Wipeout

    and Doom.
    Last edited by Barone; 05-31-2022 at 08:05 PM.

  7. #157
    Master of Shinobi
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    1,540
    Rep Power
    49

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gryson View Post
    There were severe shortages of the Saturn in 1995. It sold out during the holiday season, and Sega made the decision to prioritize the Japanese market since it was healthier at that point. We don't know what caused that shortage, but the possibility exists that it was the self-imposed limiting that Sato mentioned.

    There's simply no way to know with the available information.
    True, but there's some implication to that it happened later rather than as soon as 1995, such as mentioning that the losses on hardware would "become a huge problem later", and that "third parties saw it as Sega curbing the sales of the Saturn". I don't think third parties saw Sega as holding back production as soon as 1995, but by 97-98 there were definite signs of the Saturn getting the axe. Sega themselves also treated third parties very badly by this period, the Working Designs CEO told a lot of stories about that (they case with the imported memory cards, giving them the short stick for E3 and so on).

  8. #158
    End of line.. Shining Hero gamevet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Dallas, Texas
    Posts
    10,181
    Rep Power
    141

    Default

    Victor Ireland has a record of pissing on Sony and SEGA when he doesn’t get things his way. Vic did not want to pay for booth space at E3, and since he thought that he was doing SEGA a favor by porting Japanese games to Saturn, that they should have a space in Sega’s booth. Stolar gave in and gave him the back corner of their booth. That’s when he got all pissy and took his ball home with him. He decided to show his support for PlayStation and all was good and fine, until Sony told him that he couldn’t release the Arc the Lad games in chapters and told him they had to be sold as a compilation. Vic proceeded to acting the same way about Sony, as he had previously done with SEGA. He blamed their demand’s as the reason for his company going bankrupt. Seriously, if he didn’t decide that he’d be the last 3rd party title published on the Saturn in North America, he could have sold a lot more copies of Magic Knight Rayearth.
    Last edited by gamevet; 06-01-2022 at 12:14 AM.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



  9. #159
    Hero of Algol TrekkiesUnite118's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Age
    34
    Posts
    8,541
    Rep Power
    145

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by zyrobs View Post
    I disagree.
    For the VA0 units, they pushed a million of them in 4-5 months before the VA1s were ready, then continued producing VA0s until at least 1995 May (serial B50403488 that I owned has the plastic stamped as 1995 May). Also those units sold at a much higher price. So it does not look like they artificially held back production, nor does it look like they were losing that much money (as opposed to the later units which sold for a significantly lower prices).
    Except there were known shortages of Saturns from launch to mid 1995. We know from the Sato interview they were selling at about a 10,000 Yen (~$92) loss at launch. In 1994 RAM is about ~$40-$45/MB. Saturn has 4.5MBs in it so about $180-$200 of the system's cost would be in RAM alone. The Sato Interview seems to confirm a big chunk of the cost was Memory as well. By about summer of 1995, we see RAM prices drop by about $10-$15/MB. That would account for about $45-$70 of the cost. At this point we see the Saturn drop in price in Japan by about 10,000 Yen. So at least half of that drop is probably due to RAM costs going down, the remainder is probably from the VA1 revision and increasing production.

    By the time the Model 2 comes along, RAM prices have dropped by another $15-$20/MB. That's almost $70-$90 they save from RAM alone. The Model 2 drops the price another ~14,000 Yen. So again at least half of that drop again seems to come from RAM prices falling. The remainder is again probably from whatever savings they got from the Model 2 design and board revisions. Now at this point Saturn no longer gets a price drop in Japan. By the end of 1996, RAM drops another $10-$15/MB, so there's another $45-$70 saved in cost, plus they were still making board revisions. So from 1994-1996 we see the Saturn's RAM cost drop by about $160 - $180. So that would lower production cost from ~$500 to about $320-$340. If they're selling for about $200 and are trying to maintain a ~$90 loss, that would be about $30-$50 they'd need to make up in board and model revisions. Which I wouldn't be surprised if the changes from the VA0 Model 1 to the late 1996 Model 2's account for that. From that point forward I wouldn't be surprised if they did start to close the gap from RAM prices continuing to fall, as well as the more aggressive internal revisions they were starting to make.

    Basically Saturn's price cuts in this period seem to align very closely to falling RAM prices. Which could explain how they were able to lower the price without making the loss that much worse.

    Quote Originally Posted by zyrobs View Post
    The demand for the Saturn was definitely still there in 1997 and 1998. They had a lot of very big titles released in those years, plus the Segata Sanshiro ad campaign made it very popular. Sega themselves kept releasing demos discs up till mid 1998.
    But there weren't hardware shortages at this time, at least not ones that are well documented. There were however known hardware shortages for the Saturn shortly after launch and into mid 1995. Sato mentions there was demand and shortages because they were holding back production, this aligns more with the period of 94-95. The titles they released in 1998 were most likely ones that were too far in production to move to the Dreamcast at the time (Sakura Wars 2, Deep Fear, House of the Dead, Shining Force III, etc.) or were such low budget titles that they didn't matter (Mickey and Donald Collection).

    Quote Originally Posted by zyrobs View Post
    But, it was in 1998 where production was visibly slowing down.
    It's almost like they had announced a new system was coming out and were slowing down Saturn production to get ready for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by zyrobs View Post
    edit: and, of course, they sold machines far cheaper in 1997-8, and I do not believe that they managed to reduce production prices by the same amount.
    From what I can tell once Saturn hit 20,000 Yen in March of 1996 in Japan, it stayed there for the remainder of it's life in Japan. There were further price cuts in the US, but not in Japan. So if the savings they got from the revisions up to the model 2, as well as rapidly falling RAM prices was enough to make it so they weren't losing anymore than they already were at launch, I could see the continuing reductions they made and RAM prices continuing to drop closing that gap for them by keeping the price the same in Japan.

    I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Saturn actually started to become profitable by the time the final board revisions came along if they were still selling them at 20,000 Yen.

    Quote Originally Posted by zyrobs View Post
    So there would have been a bigger gap between production and sale prices in later years, which translates to more money lost on production... so they slow down production to offset this. But production visibly shoots up from 1995 so I doubt he was talking about this period, because reducing production introduces a terminal cascade (less consoles sold equals less buyers for your games), and if they recovered from that as early as 1995, then why even mention the problem as something that killed the machine...?
    Just because they somewhat recovered and were able to ramp up production doesn't mean it didn't have long term effects. Anyone who couldn't get a Saturn at that time were going to instead buy a PS1 if they didn't want to wait. That leads to less software sales as less people have the system. This ticks off your third party developers and they stop supporting your system and you get less software released. That then also leads to less software sales, and then possibly less system sales. This is most likely the negative feedback loop he's referring to. And that's not even touching on how it impacted the US launch as they didn't have enough systems and had to be picky with who got the first systems, which pissed off retailers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gryson View Post
    There were severe shortages of the Saturn in 1995. It sold out during the holiday season, and Sega made the decision to prioritize the Japanese market since it was healthier at that point. We don't know what caused that shortage, but the possibility exists that it was the self-imposed limiting that Sato mentioned.

    There's simply no way to know with the available information.
    Right, we don't know for sure. But it seems to be a more logical fit for this period when there were known shortages than late in it's life in 97/98.

    Quote Originally Posted by zyrobs View Post
    True, but there's some implication to that it happened later rather than as soon as 1995, such as mentioning that the losses on hardware would "become a huge problem later", and that "third parties saw it as Sega curbing the sales of the Saturn". I don't think third parties saw Sega as holding back production as soon as 1995, but by 97-98 there were definite signs of the Saturn getting the axe. Sega themselves also treated third parties very badly by this period, the Working Designs CEO told a lot of stories about that (they case with the imported memory cards, giving them the short stick for E3 and so on).
    But we also see in this early period that Sony is getting a lot more third party games than Sega. You can look at the Famitsu sales charts and see that both Saturn and PS1 have about 80-90 games charting in the period from late 1994 to the end of 1995. However over half of Saturn's games are made by Sega, while only about 15-20 of PS1's are made by Sony. This seems to point more to holding back production during this time possibly hurt third party releases on the system.
    Last edited by TrekkiesUnite118; 06-01-2022 at 12:02 PM.

  10. #160
    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Wales, UK
    Posts
    7,048
    Rep Power
    80

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    Citing sales numbers amongst a sea of games doesn't prove much. Final Fantasy III (North America) only sold 650,000 copies on the SNES. It most certainly doesn't mean that it wasn't an impactful RPG.
    You asked for facts and those were the facts. I would say, that it wasn't until the 360/PS3 era that PC FPS became a big deal on consoles and could outsell console specific games. I don't mean that as a dig or to be clever against the PC. For me, Duke Nukem 3D is still one of the best games of all time and should have been a multi-million seller on the PS alone, I still play Rise of the Dragon on the Mega CD to this day. Looking at console sales, PC games weren't that big of a deal.

    What was clear, was how so many people were ready to embrace a new generation and leave the 16-bit gen behind, that for me was the real issue; SONY and Nintendo were looking forward, while SEGA was still desperate to hang on to its 16-bit past, when so many gamers had just got bored of the same old style of games and how almost every game looked the same: a platform game, film licence

    SEGA America was just not up to the task and outdated with its thinking, even to the point of thinking that having some pet scream the words SEGA!!! was still cool and hip in 1995. Just look at SOA PR.. That big Saturn video promotion for retail, where you had a woman with a Bald cap, with what I take it to be Saturn rings around her head (That looked like something made for a School nativities play) along with a man in make-up talking utter crap, while you had some tool, dance around like a jerk.

    If that wasn't bad enough, the next year (1996) ready for hype for Sonic X. SOA thought it would be so cool to have two plebs dress up as Mario and Luigi, walking around with 'Mario Who', 'Unemployed Plummer looking for work'. Only for Mario to turn out to be amazing and SOA Sonic game, never to make out the door. Nice one SOA!.

    The ineptitude of SEGA America in almost every dept, for the 32bit era was a disgrace
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
    one of the best 3D shooting games available
    Presented for your pleasure

  11. #161
    End of line.. Shining Hero gamevet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Dallas, Texas
    Posts
    10,181
    Rep Power
    141

    Default

    Don’t waste your time responding to me TA. You’re all over the place with your nonsense posts.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



  12. #162
    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Wales, UK
    Posts
    7,048
    Rep Power
    80

    Default

    Take a look at the top 20 selling N64 games in the USA, the top 50 top selling PS games in the USA and the top 10 selling Sega Saturn games in the USA and see the likes of Doom, Quake and Duke nowhere to be seen.
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
    one of the best 3D shooting games available
    Presented for your pleasure

  13. #163
    End of line.. Shining Hero gamevet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Dallas, Texas
    Posts
    10,181
    Rep Power
    141

    Default

    Shut up!

    I noticed that you’re not replying to Barone, because you know good and well that he’d nail you to the cross.
    Last edited by gamevet; 06-01-2022 at 10:42 AM.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



  14. #164
    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Wales, UK
    Posts
    7,048
    Rep Power
    80

    Default

    Ok, Mr Facts
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
    one of the best 3D shooting games available
    Presented for your pleasure

  15. #165
    End of line.. Shining Hero gamevet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Dallas, Texas
    Posts
    10,181
    Rep Power
    141

    Default

    Okay, Mr. dumbass!

    Barone, Gryson and several others have pointed out why you are wrong. Barone’s last post pointed out exactly why listing best sellers on a console doesn’t mean anything, especially for a game that was over 4 years old by the time it came to N64 and a top launch title on the PlayStation.
    Last edited by gamevet; 06-02-2022 at 01:14 AM.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •