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Thread: Japan execs were upset that Kalinske was allowed to resign w/o taking blame for 32X

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    AKA Mister Xiado Master of Shinobi Raijin Z's Avatar
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    I recall people being a bit wary of PDS, instead wanting more Phantasy Star and Shining Force games, but my sample size was about a half dozen regulars who visited the local used/import game shop. Didn't have a computer back then, so I dunno what the USENET peeps thought of it. People were still going crazy about Diablo, Chrono Trigger, Ogre Battle, and Final Fantasy 6/3 at the time.
    - Where it's always 1995 (or so).

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    Raging in the Streets Moirai's Avatar
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    Sega of Japan baſically approved e 32X o. ey very well could have canned e whole project couldn't ey?

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    Mega Driver Hedgehog-in-TrainingMaster of Shinobi Gryson's Avatar
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    Read the thread?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    I'm afraid I can't agree over Arcade ports They were still important and a big thing for console gamers at that time. Tekken and RR did help sell the PS to the world and Tekken 3 was a massive seller on the PS
    Yeah, I can see your point. By 1995 the arcade scene was in decline but there were some good games that year like MK3 and Area 51. Arcades just got too expensive, I saw cabinets that were 50 cents or even $1 per credit, with extreme difficulty that guaranteed most players wouldn't last a minute. So yeah, having good arcade ports was a plus for consoles. That's the one area where I always felt the Saturn beat the PSX and N64.

    Was any arcade port considered a killer app in the U.S. though? That's what I mean about the market having moved on, I still love arcade style games but in the 90s it seemed like most gamers were moving more towards adventure, RPG or FPS. I looked at a sales list and saw that VF2 and Daytona had good numbers, until I remembered they were bundled with the console so most of those don't count.

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    End of line.. Shining Hero gamevet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by axel View Post
    Yeah, I can see your point. By 1995 the arcade scene was in decline but there were some good games that year like MK3 and Area 51. Arcades just got too expensive, I saw cabinets that were 50 cents or even $1 per credit, with extreme difficulty that guaranteed most players wouldn't last a minute. So yeah, having good arcade ports was a plus for consoles. That's the one area where I always felt the Saturn beat the PSX and N64.

    Was any arcade port considered a killer app in the U.S. though? That's what I mean about the market having moved on, I still love arcade style games but in the 90s it seemed like most gamers were moving more towards adventure, RPG or FPS. I looked at a sales list and saw that VF2 and Daytona had good numbers, until I remembered they were bundled with the console so most of those don't count.
    The PlayStation started out with a lot of arcade ports and of course, the 6 month exclusive deal on MK3. People were obviously still into fighting games. Blockbuster had Battle Arena Toshinden on display in many of its stores and people gobbled that garbage fighter up, even though it was an inferior fighting game to Virtua Fighter. Sony being aligned with Namco certainly helped them keep up with Sega's arcade ports to Saturn. They did have Tekken, Ridge Racer and Time Crisis, which were visually better than Virtua Fighter, Daytona and Virtua Cop on Saturn.

    I was excited about having Virtua Fighter and Daytona at home, when I bought my Saturn in May of 1995. My Saturn had Virtua Fighter as a pack-in and I immediately bought Daytona USA within a week of purchasing the console.


    Quote Originally Posted by zyrobs View Post
    CPU production prices go lower as yields increase on one particular node. However Ryzen chips are all relatively small and consequentially have extremely good yields. I don't know the particulars of that one Ryzen model you mentioned, but I doubt the yields increased so dramatically that they could sell that chip for half the price on that alone. It sounds more like they were clearing out stock.
    Ryzen uses a chiplet design. They basically designed a CPU housing that they could drop the 4/8 core chiplets into. They would drop a couple of chiplets into the core chip and as many as 4 chiplets to make a CPU like the Threadripper. It was very cost effective, and because the cores were on separate silicon, the yields were very high. It isn't really comparable to the old way of making CPUs.



    Last edited by gamevet; 05-23-2022 at 02:22 PM.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



  6. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    The PlayStation started out with a lot of arcade ports and of course, the 6 month exclusive deal on MK3. People were obviously still into fighting games. Blockbuster had Battle Arena Toshinden on display in many of its stores and people gobbled that garbage fighter up, even though it was an inferior fighting game to Virtua Fighter. Sony being aligned with Namco certainly helped them keep up with Sega's arcade ports to Saturn. They did have Tekken, Ridge Racer and Time Crisis, which were visually better than Virtua Fighter, Daytona and House of the Dead on Saturn.

    I was excited about having Virtua Fighter and Daytona at home, when I bought my Saturn in May of 1995. My Saturn had Virtua Fighter as a pack-in and I immediately bought Daytona USA within a week of purchasing the console.
    Oh yeah, I remember there was a brief time when Battle Arena Toshinden was huge. It was the PSX game everyone was talking about. I could never get into it myself.

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    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by axel View Post
    Yeah, I can see your point. By 1995 the arcade scene was in decline but there were some good games that year like MK3 and Area 51. Arcades just got too expensive, I saw cabinets that were 50 cents or even $1 per credit, with extreme difficulty that guaranteed most players wouldn't last a minute. So yeah, having good arcade ports was a plus for consoles. That's the one area where I always felt the Saturn beat the PSX and N64.

    Was any arcade port considered a killer app in the U.S. though? That's what I mean about the market having moved on, I still love arcade style games but in the 90s it seemed like most gamers were moving more towards adventure, RPG or FPS. I looked at a sales list and saw that VF2 and Daytona had good numbers, until I remembered they were bundled with the console so most of those don't count.

    In 1995 PC's were also very expensive and out of reach for many. Arcade games were still a big deal and also a great way to show off your console power back in those days. It also wasn't like SEGA Japan looked to only the Arcades. Panzer Dragoon was SEGA most expensive game of all time and some mags ever said the most expensive console game at the time too That to go along with the likes of Clockwork Knight, Victory Goal, Astal and others showed that SEGA Japan wasn't look to just its Arcade games to sell the Saturn and IMO if AM#2 Daytona USA port was had the graphics of Sega Rally or Daytona USA CE the Saturn would have flown off the shelf's for me and I loved the fact that SEGA was getting its Arcade divisions to work on the Saturn and home ports themself's. Tekken was a bid deal on the PS, Tekken 3 sold in huge numbers and look at how well Crusin USA did on the N64, never mind the game was utter crap on the N64 and in the Arcades

    The 32X was just a massive distraction , it split SEGA studios and the SEGA fanbase and then also its 3rd parties and retail and SEGA never was able to recover that ground, you also they had SEGA America screwing up Sonic and just not up to the task of 32Bit production. You didn't need to be a brilliant games producer to see that Ghen War, Mr Bones, Congo were crap, that its PR was sh8t and why when you work so hard to build up a brand and gets fans into to it, do you not look to have a Joe Montana game in development for the Saturn? I'll not be able to prove it, but to me too many inside SEGA, were hoping and expecting that NiGHTS would be the new Sonic and sell the system and were relying on that game far too much. It doesn't always work out mind, not matter. People talk about Doom, but for me Exhumed looked better and was (and still is) the best FPS ever made, but many didn't care even Saturn fans


    SEGA couldn't beat SONY they had the better hardware and $500 million behide it, but IMO the N64 was there for the taking. Its just a crying shame many Saturn users in the west, never got to see what the system could really do or get to play some of its amazing software in 1997 but without marketshare and people like Berine at SEGA you were never going to get many of them brought over
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
    one of the best 3D shooting games available
    Presented for your pleasure

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    Mega Driver Hedgehog-in-TrainingMaster of Shinobi Gryson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    In 1995 PC's were also very expensive and out of reach for many.
    You're not understanding the situation - probably for a few reasons. First, I assume you aren't really aware of the PC gaming explosion that began around 1994 in the US. I don't know how much this hit the UK, but I have heard for example that the large majority of Warcraft II sales occurred in the US. Second, it doesn't matter how expensive PCs were - people still wanted to play PC games. There's a reason why Doom was considered the 32X's killer app. Games like Dark Forces, Warcraft II, Doom II, and so on were all million-seller titles.

    Of course arcade games still had a large presence, but the multimedia-style / 3D-action focus of PC games was drawing a lot of attention, and Sony was just better at getting Western developers who catered to that style, especially early on. Twisted Metal, Warhawk, Destruction Derby, Wipeout, Alien Trilogy, etc. Plus a huge, huge number of games ported to the PS1 that were previously released on PC.

    I'm actually curious what percent of PS1 games are PC ports...

  9. #114
    End of line.. Shining Hero gamevet's Avatar
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    Diablo came out for the PlayStation. Its pretty rare, like Star Craft on N64.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



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    XCOM, Warcraft II, Dark Forces, Doom, Duke Nukem 3D, Sim City 2000, Command & Conquer, Descent, MDK, GTA, Wing Commander III, bunch of racing games, on and on. Too many to remember.

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    Myst, Dune, Rebel Assault 2, Ultimate Doom
    Last edited by gamevet; 05-23-2022 at 10:59 AM.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



  12. #117
    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gryson View Post
    You're not understanding the situation - probably for a few reasons. First, I assume you aren't really aware of the PC gaming explosion that began around 1994 in the US. I don't know how much this hit the UK, but I have heard for example that the large majority of Warcraft II sales occurred in the US. Second, it doesn't matter how expensive PCs were - people still wanted to play PC games. There's a reason why Doom was considered the 32X's killer app. Games like Dark Forces, Warcraft II, Doom II, and so on were all million-seller titles.

    Of course arcade games still had a large presence, but the multimedia-style / 3D-action focus of PC games was drawing a lot of attention, and Sony was just better at getting Western developers who catered to that style, especially early on. Twisted Metal, Warhawk, Destruction Derby, Wipeout, Alien Trilogy, etc. Plus a huge, huge number of games ported to the PS1 that were previously released on PC.

    I'm actually curious what percent of PS1 games are PC ports...
    I was well aware of the PC getting more popular I could see that in the CVG sales charts and I've consistently made that point,t when it was very clear the 16bit market was in decline and the 1995 UK charts starting to be dominated by PS and PC CD-Rom titles PC was still out of reach for many, which is why it was a big deal getting the likes of Doom on the consoles, same for Duke, Doom was even consider a killer app for the Jag too

    The issue was you had SEGA America still thinking the 16-bit market was KING and having teams waste their time money and efforts on the 32X, while SONY showed SOA people were not only ready to move on, they were willing to spend big on the console. The Saturn also had a number of PC ports too, sadly quite a few would remain in Japan only Like I said if not for that 32X. The Saturn would have Doom years before the PS, same goes for Fifa, never mind how having many western developers make their work 1st on the Saturn

    So much of it goes back to the brian dead call to push ahead with the 32X and still think the 16-bit market 2D games was a winner in 1994 & 1995
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
    one of the best 3D shooting games available
    Presented for your pleasure

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gryson View Post
    XCOM, Warcraft II, Dark Forces, Doom, Duke Nukem 3D, Sim City 2000, Command & Conquer, Descent, MDK, GTA, Wing Commander III, bunch of racing games, on and on. Too many to remember.
    Quite of few of them were on the Saturn and I dare say if SEGA America had built up enough of a decent userbase, the likes of WC III and GTA would have came out, since they were down to be Saturn tiles as well and with out Berine pissing off Dave Perry and Co maybe we 'might have got MDK as well

    Its a shame about GTA the Saturn's VDP2 could have made short work of that games flat Mode 7 style floor , it could have been even better than the PS version really
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
    one of the best 3D shooting games available
    Presented for your pleasure

  14. #119
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    The point wasn't about the PS1's PC ports (of which there were far more than the Saturn).

    The point was that arcade games alone did not have the pull in the American market in 1995 to dominate.

    Sony's Western developers offered something vital. They built off the then-dominating PC market, tapped into that energy to bring it somewhere new. The PC was slow to get many 3D action games. Remember that the first Voodoo card didn't release until late 1996. For at least two years, the PS1 was pushing the frontier in terms of Western game development.

    There was very little of that to be found on the Saturn, whose dominant library was essentially a collection of Sega's Japanese-developed games.

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    I think that you'll find that a lot of the gaming consoles early releases were home computer ports. Even the NES had a ton of 8-bit home computer ports in the West, that probably weren't released in the east. Just looking at the NES you have Maniac Mansion, Arcon, MULE, Silent Service, The Bard's Tale, Shadowgate, Spy vs. Spy, The Immortal, Winter Games and Summer Games, just to name a few. Even Impossible Mission made its way the the Atari 7800 and Master System.

    The same thing happened (16-bit computers and PC) on the SNES and Genesis/Sega CD with games like The Vikings, Chaos Field, Another World, Power Monger, 688 Attack Sub, M1 Abrams, Lotus Racing, Heimdale, Secret of Monkey Island, DOOM (SNES), Wing Commander, The Immortal, Eye of the Beholder, SimCity 2000, Populous, Lemmings, StarFlight and Rise of the Dragon.


    The Saturn launch did include Myst for both Japan and North America.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



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