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Thread: Resident Evil 2

  1. #16
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    https://tcrf.net/Resident_Evil_2_(Nintendo_64)
    If using the Memory Expansion Pak, polygon models and textures are of higher quality and resolution compared to the PlayStation version.
    Yes, I have an expansion pak and played the high-res mode.

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    Hero of Algol TrekkiesUnite118's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roce View Post
    https://tcrf.net/Resident_Evil_2_(Nintendo_64)


    Yes, I have an expansion pak and played the high-res mode.
    Take stuff on that site with a grain of salt. It regularly has wrong info. What's most likely happening is the expansion pak is letting it render in a higher resolution, but the assets are being upscaled as I don't think there's any different model data or texture and background data on the cart.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118 View Post
    Take stuff on that site with a grain of salt. It regularly has wrong info. What's most likely happening is the expansion pak is letting it render in a higher resolution, but the assets are being upscaled as I don't think there's any different model data or texture and background data on the cart.
    The difference of higher resolution (and anti-aliasing) is that the 3D models have cleaner, less aliased edges. Assets don't change. I highly doubt they would store 2 different versions of every asset (one for low and one for high-res) on the cartridge were the game is compressed so much that if it was any more it would create a small black hole.

    IMO, neither version is "the best". You pick your poison. On PS1 you have low-res models that wobble and glitch but higher-res assets. On N64 you have lower res assets but the higher-res 3D models are stable and cleaner looking.

    Personally, i would probably choose the PS1 version because the game is 80% 2D/pre-rendered assets and 20% 3D. Plus, if you emulate it you can get both the good quality assets and the high-res stable models (yes, you can fix the wobbling too now), while if you emulate the N64 version you are still stuck with the lower-res assets since these don't get better with emulation unless you use a texture mod pack.

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    The guy is doing a wonderful job with RE2 Saturn.

    Speaking of which, I never undestood the claim back in the days, where RE2 was "technically impossible" on Saturn (I don't remember if it was the official excuse capcom used after sony paid for the exclusive, os if it was just the sony magazines propaganda).
    I mean we are talking about a game with 3 (max 4) 3D models on screen and a jpeg background...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Virtua Hunter View Post
    The guy is doing a wonderful job with RE2 Saturn.

    Speaking of which, I never undestood the claim back in the days, where RE2 was "technically impossible" on Saturn (I don't remember if it was the official excuse capcom used after sony paid for the exclusive, os if it was just the sony magazines propaganda).
    I mean we are talking about a game with 3 (max 4) 3D models on screen and a jpeg background...
    That was just people not taking the time to read what was said and talking it out of context too, so many did just the same with EDGE interview with Yu Suzuki.

    In the SSM interview with Funamizu-san he says the port 'wouldn't' have been impossible, they didn't need more RAM and the port was started, just that Capcom couldn't push the calculations any more and he also states that the reason why the Saturn version was dropped was because of Dreamcast. No doubt SEGA had asked and wanted Capcom to be on the DC early and bring out the RE games and well almost all of retail was also dropping support of the Saturn too
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virtua Hunter View Post
    The guy is doing a wonderful job with RE2 Saturn.

    Speaking of which, I never undestood the claim back in the days, where RE2 was "technically impossible" on Saturn (I don't remember if it was the official excuse capcom used after sony paid for the exclusive, os if it was just the sony magazines propaganda).
    I mean we are talking about a game with 3 (max 4) 3D models on screen and a jpeg background...
    So from the person working on it, there actually are quite a few challenges as stated previously. You actually can get up to 6+ zombies + the player in a few spots which ends up at 1500 polygons or more per frame. Which that can be quite a bit taxing for the Saturn and currently causes this homebrew engine to drop to 20fps.

    The other issue is RAM. The PS1 version uses the MDEC chip to decompress the background images. Each room can have up to 16 different camera angles and background images. Those need to be in RAM so they can quickly transition between them as you go through the room. Without compression those take up a lot of space and can't fit into the Saturn's 2MB of RAM. This is why the dev is currently using the 4MB RAM cart and probably why Capcom was reportedly using it back in the 90s when they were looking into porting it.

    While there are software compression schemes that can be used, we don't know yet how viable they are to get the images down to a good size and if they can be worked into the existing engine's memory footprint.

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    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
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    RE 2 Saturn port did not use the 4-Meg Cart and Capcom also clearly stated in the interview, they did not need more RAM. The 4-MEG rumour was started in the SSM, with SSM staff assuming RE2 would look to use the 4 MEG Cart much like them saying Digital Dance mix was based on a VF3 Saturn engine..

    When people get past fanboys and system bashing, any port is possible, it then just becomes how much is lost in the port. How many SEGA fanboy's said Sonic/2 or SOR2 would be impossible possible on the SNES only for the games to appear on the Master System, Sonic even was on the Neo Geo Pocket

    The Saturn had no right to handle Model 2 ports, when you think of it, SEGA even looked to port VF2 to the Mega Drive
    If Capcom looked to port Dead Rising down to a Wii or even looked at one stage to bring RE out to a Gameboy Colour one can be sure that if Capcom really wanted too, RE2 could have come on out the Saturn, with what cutbacks we will never know

    I think the Saturn port was dropped more for commercial reasons, than technical, given that even in Japan its software wasn't selling in great numbers and also with SEGA having the head of Capcom at its New Challenge conference to make announcements for the DC (and any RE game back then was a big deal). Why have Capcom/SEGA work a port for a dying system, that would no doubt look inferior, when you could have the best port of the game possible and also show off the wonders of Win CE too LOL

    A bet the same sort of thing happened with RE0 on the N64, why waste any more time on a dying format and just look to bring it to the Cube instead
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    RE 2 Saturn port did not use the 4-Meg Cart and Capcom also clearly stated in the interview, they did not need more RAM. The 4-MEG rumour was started in the SSM, with SSM staff assuming RE2 would look to use the 4 MEG Cart
    Hence why I said reportedly using it, though you don't really have the best track record for reading/interpreting old magazine artciles. That said, there is still a clear RAM issue which the current dev behind this homebrew engine is running into and I explained in the post above. I wouldn't be surprised if Capcom was using the 4MB cart at some point in porting just to make it easier to get something up and running before they had a working compression scheme. The same reason this dev is currently using it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    saying Digital Dance mix was based on a VF3 Saturn engine..
    Technically if it used SGL that would be a Saturn Virtua Fighter engine. I believe that particular rumor comes from the game starting with them testing how good they could get character models and animations looking on Saturn to get an idea of if VF3 was possible.

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    I remember actually scanning (that's how long ago it was) in the interview to post on here, way back when. Capcom couldn't be more clear on it when it comes to RAM or the real reason why it was dropped.
    I guess you're referring to bringing up pixel dust?. Scavenger were the 1st one to talk of the cross fade transparency, funnily enough, talking to SSM when SSM covered their games and was looking at Scorcher You play that game and it's nice for a bit of fade in but that's all and Scavenger didn't need to use fancy magic terms either

    RE 2 of course would have been possible on the Saturn, it just becomes then at what cost with quality. I would simply say SEGA was fast dropping the Saturn itself and would have been looking for quality software to sell and promote their system early in and no doubt put pressure on Capcom, to look to bring RE2 to the DC and I bet the same happened with RE0 and Nintendo looking for software on the Cube. Still, interviews are not always the best or age well if you're 'Capcom' ... I remember Shinji Mikami in various interviews, slagging off the PS2: saying he'll never work on it, its a nightmare system way harder to work on than the Saturn, N64! how RE4 would be impossible on it Ect, Ect. Only for RE4 to come out on the PS2 and Mikami-san himself to make GodHand on the PS2.

    Seem to remember Capcom also saying that SF2 would be SNES only in an interview and I fell for that one LOL And had my Auntie buy me a Snes. Stil it was a great system, so not all bad in the end


    And with Digital Dance Mix running on VF3 engine, that was just pure speculation on SSM part (along with the game being finished on the Saturn) photoreal-looking characters were not part of VF3 look, sure it would be running on the same engine, but I would guess that was true for most of AM#2 Saturn games, like how most Sonic Teams games run on the NiGHTS engine. I don't think anything off DDM would have been used on any possible VF3 port. I would have thought VF3 on the Saturn would have looked and been far more like Fighting Megamix and don't see what more the Saturn could have given over FMM on a base system.
    Last edited by Team Andromeda; 06-23-2022 at 04:00 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    I remember actually scanning (that's how long ago it was) in the interview to post on here, way back when. Capcom couldn't be more clear on it when it comes to RAM or the real reason why it was dropped.
    I guess you're referring to bringing up pixel dust?. Scavenger were the 1st one to talk of the cross fade transparency, funnily enough, talking to SSM when SSM covered their games and was looking at Scorcher You play that game and it's nice for a bit of fade in but that's all and Scavenger didn't need to use fancy magic terms either
    You mean this snippet from EGM?:



    Other articles I see don't really have direct statements from Capcom, but all tend to point to the 4MB RAM cart being used or considered. But in this one he clearly states they had technical hurdles that made it difficult and led to them deciding to just drop it and move to Dreamcast. However as usual you're completely focusing on a minor detail and ignoring the actual point. The point is there actually is an actual legit issue with getting Resident Evil 2 to run on the Saturn that could lead to a need for the 4MB RAM cart.

    Each camera angle's background tiles take up about 78KB, and you can have up to 16 different angles in a signle room. You need to have them all in RAM and ready to go to avoid bad pauses going between camera angles. so 78KB * 16 = 1.2MB. That's not going to fit in all of LWRAM, and you most likely don't have room in HWRAM for that as that's where the actual game program, graphics engine, etc. all are. Plus there's more to a Room than just the background image. So you need some form of compression here to free up space, but is also fast enough to be decompressed quickly enough to avoid pauses in transitions. Plus you need to hope there's enough space in HWRAM for decompression buffers. Which if you don't have that, then the 4MB RAM cart is going to be needed. That's what the current dev of this homebrew engine is running into and is why he's using the 4MB cart. I wouldn't be surprised if Capcom did something similar at the time when they were working on it. At the very least I could see them using it temporarily until they came up with a better solution.

    I really don't give a shit about what vague statements and speculation you can pull out of old magazines. They generally aren't very useful for these technical discussions as the info was either BS at the time or is outdated and inaccurate. What matters more is the actual hardware and what developers have learned about the systems.

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    The use of 4-MEG cart was pure speculation on the press part and of course, any game built from the ground up for a system would be difficult to port and it's not just fanboys that say silly stuff, but also developers and programmers too. I remember John Carmack telling PC Zone, how Doom 3 was only possible on the PC, no console could handle it! Only for it to come out on the XBox, John also told EDGE he'll never work with Nintendo again after the Snes, only for Quake, Quake 2 and Doom to come out on the N64 , Sony Europe told EDGE that Wipeout 2097 was only possible on PS hardware only for a very good port to come out on the Saturn, I remember Itagaki-san saying Ninja Gaiden 2 was only possible on the 360, Team Ninja would only work on 360 hardware, only for the game to come out on the PS3

    If we look at Capcom, I remember reading how SF II was only going to be on the Snes, only for it to come out on the MD and PC Eng (and how many of us bought a Snes believing Capcom? I know I did)
    How Dead Rising was only possible on the 360, only for the game to come out on Wii, how RE 4 was only possible on the Cube, only for it come out on the PS2; Speaking of which, that was a system Mikami-san swore he would never work on, or he would leave Capcom! Only for him to work on the PS2 and make Godhand . I remember Capcom saying that X-Men Vs Streetfighter was only possible on the Saturn and would be an exclusive, only for the game to of course, come out on the PS.

    How many SEGA fanboys and fans even on here, said that Sonic was only possible due to Blast Processing and the Snes even wouldn't be able to handle the music, let alone the game. Now thanks to the Homebrew community, Sonic is out on the Snes, music as well and that's to look over no retail MD game ever used blast processing.. But hey, it sounded good and us SEGA fanboy's used it

    When one moves past the fanboy or silliness and looks at it from a business perspective, if a publisher thinks there's a market and they can make 'money', any port becomes possible, its then becomes what you lose or can add, to the port in question If I was to guess, Capcom might have looked to cut the number of zombies on screen at the same time, in a Saturn version of Re2 , much like how they cut the number of enemies on screen at the same time with Fial Fight on the Mega CD or Snes , But any port is possible no matter the hardware.


    I would say that RE2 was moved to DC more to a dying Saturn market and SEGA looking to get quality software on its new system. I bet the same also happened with Capcom for RE0 on the Cube and also Onimusha on the PS2; We've got new systems coming and we need quality games, please... despite them being developed for the N64 and PS originally.
    Last edited by Team Andromeda; 06-24-2022 at 04:58 AM.
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    Isn't it possible to add something simple like RLE compression to reduce the backgrounds to fit into the 1 meg slow ram?
    Or use the SH1 memory as extra buffer.

    Or, worst case scenario, reduce them to 128 color to halve their size.

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    If somebody can get RE2 running on a GBA in their spare time, I'm pretty sure Capcom and SEGA could have got RE2 on the Saturn, where you have a team of 30 full time staff, whose paid job would be to port the game and they'll be given every resource and libraries to get the game done (given it would have been a high profile title at the time)

    Capcom says and do lots of stuff only to change their mind.

    I remember Capcom telling EDGE how Viewtiful Joe graphics was not at possible on the PS2 and I'm sure even Smilbit said that JSR graphics wouldn't be possible on the PS2
    Only for the PS2 to of coruse get a port of Vewtifull Joe and blow apart the notion that the PS2 couldn't do cell shading
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    Completely Missing the Point
    Can you please just read and respond to the actual arguments? If you can't do that then stay out of technical discussions.

    Quote Originally Posted by zyrobs View Post
    Isn't it possible to add something simple like RLE compression to reduce the backgrounds to fit into the 1 meg slow ram?
    Possibly, but part of the issue is HWRAM is full in the current engine he has from all the different buffers he has for the polygon rendering. So there might not be enough space to have a decompression buffer in HWRAM. And again, there's other data that still needs to be loaded in beyond just the backgrounds.

    Quote Originally Posted by zyrobs View Post
    Or use the SH1 memory as extra buffer.
    I think the only person who's shown that being workable was VBT, and it's very finnicky. And that still might not be enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    If somebody can get RE2 running on a GBA in their spare time, I'm pretty sure Capcom and SEGA could have got RE2 on the Saturn, where you have a team of 30 full time staff, whose paid job would be to port the game and they'll be given every resource and libraries to get the game done (given it would have been a high profile title at the time)
    GBA can read stuff directly from ROM, so it might actually have an easier time with this situation if they had a big enough ROM. And I agree Capcom could have gotten RE2 running on Saturn. But seeing what challenges this Dev is having with it I'm starting to understand why the 4MB cart might be necessary.

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    Capcom say a lot of stuff, only to then go back on their world. RE4 was Cube only, SF 2 Snes only, Code Veronica DC only, Dead Rising or Lost Planet were only possible on the 360 and would only be on those systems, much like only the Saturn could handle a home version of X-men Vs Streetfighter and it would be Saturn exclusive, or how Shinji would never work on the PS2, RE4 would never come to the PS2 or he'll leave Capcom.

    Looking over all that.

    If Capcom could look to bring RE to a Gameboy colour, brought RE 2 to a bloody Gamecom. Then you can be sure, where's money, there's a way. If there was a big market for Saturn software and SEGA wasn't looking to bring out a new system. RE2 was possible on Saturn or really any main 32-Bit system. It then becomes only what the porting team look to add or take away from the port, to make it all possible or worthwhile.
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