Quantcast

Page 6 of 9 FirstFirst ... 23456789 LastLast
Results 76 to 90 of 124

Thread: The Saturn Early Launch in North America - Help Me Understand...

  1. #76
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-Training Trepanned Jam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2022
    Posts
    3
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    An interview that the Sega Saturn Shiro! podcast did with Dave Warhol (Executive Producer of Bug!) does shed some light on the early launch. He states that SoA's "...public face was September, but they were always trying to get it done in May." He also states that his developer contract with Sega was 12 months which was always slated for a May or June release, the project was never rushed a few months to meet an unexpected deadline. The game was to be released as soon as it was the developer contract was finished. The official release date I could find on Bug! was 07/28/1995, so perhaps the decision to do an early NA launch for Saturn was being planned a lot earlier then what is usually said? Or maybe he might be misremembering a few details?

  2. #77
    Road Rasher Folco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    374
    Rep Power
    25

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    I'm really with you on the 32X, but Saturn coverage was in all the main mag's, which is why I always found it silly when some used to make out the Saturn was hidden from SEGA America or how SEGA America didn't have development kits until 1995. Its also funny how Gamefan was going with a early Saturn launch for America too
    Japanese press had early details about all the next-gen consoles since late '93.
    Here an example from a December issue of The Super Famicom:



    (for the PC-FX, there is just a small note about NEC HE announcing their new 32 bit console)

  3. #78
    Mega Driver Hedgehog-in-TrainingMaster of Shinobi Gryson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    1,544
    Rep Power
    73

    Default

    Here's another earlier source for the Saturn - Beep! MD, November 1993:

    https://retrocdn.net/index.php?title...11.pdf&page=34

    Beep! MD and The Super Famicom were published out of the same office, which is why they share the same Saturn mockup art.

    Of course, the first news of the Saturn can be found in regular newspapers. As I recall, the console was announced in September 1993 alongside the partnership with Hitachi, and that was widely reported.

    There's this funny myth going around that Sega of America was surprised when the Saturn was released in Japan - like they didn't get the memo or something. I think this comes from an interview with Scott Bayless, where he claims they were all caught off guard by the Saturn's release in Japan.

    I'm like, dude, it was reported everywhere for over a year! Your own company debuted it at Winter CES in Jan. 1994. And a late 1994 Japan release was also reported everywhere (it was never delayed - the monthly record in magazines and newspapers is consistent about a late 1994 release), so I can only imagine Bayless was really out of the loop, which I think is entirely possible.

  4. #79
    The Future is Yesterday Hedgehog-in-TrainingESWAT Veteran Leynos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    1999
    Posts
    6,062
    Rep Power
    78

    Default

    That mock-up looks very similar to this prototype. I feel this looks better than the final version.

    Life?!...What console is that on?

    [PSN] Segata-S //[Switch] FC-SW 3892 5228 2895 //[XBL]Dogi99

    Remake Geist Force!


  5. #80
    Master of Shinobi
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,626
    Rep Power
    35

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Leynos View Post
    Many successful consoles had weak launch lineups. So not that big of a deal. If it was such a big deal DC would have done better than PS2 or even Gamecube. I will take Astal and Panzer Dragoon over any PS1 launch game. Thet best games PS1 had at the launch were not even exclusive.
    The Saturn had one of the worst launches of all time. That doesn't always doom a console but it certainly doesn't help. I agree the PS1 launch titles were not very impressive though. Battle Arena Toshinden was the closest it had to a killer app. Ridge Racer looked pretty good but didn't play like the arcade. As the graph posted by Folco shows the PS1 didn't really start picking up steam until about two years later.

  6. #81
    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Wales, UK
    Posts
    7,048
    Rep Power
    80

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Folco View Post
    Japanese press had early details about all the next-gen consoles since late '93.
    Here an example from a December issue of The Super Famicom:

    (for the PC-FX, there is just a small note about NEC HE announcing their new 32 bit console)
    I know.

    The amount of ridicule I had from some here for daring to say the Saturn wasn't hidden from SEGA America was laughable looking back. One was told that SEGA America knew nothing of the Saturn, did have not have development kits and should have stuck with the Mega Drive. All SOA had to do was read the likes of any major mag back in the day to learn of the Saturn, SOA showed off the Saturn even before SOJ in the CES show and I needed to scan that in, along with an interview of the Tiger team/Away Team from SSM stating they started development of Saturn projects in 1993.


    Rumours of an early Saturn launch in the West were widely reported and the more people dig now, the more. It's clear the May date wasn't forced on SOA at all and another bit of spin by Tom Kalinske. I still have most of the scans backed up



    This is from the very 1st Issue of EDGE
















    Quote Originally Posted by axel View Post
    The Saturn had one of the worst launches of all time. That doesn't always doom a console but it certainly doesn't help. I agree the PS1 launch titles were not very impressive though. Battle Arena Toshinden was the closest it had to a killer app. Ridge Racer looked pretty good but didn't play like the arcade. As the graph posted by Folco shows the PS1 didn't really start picking up steam until about two years later.
    Some people act like all hardware launches other than the Saturn, we all amazing , when that's not the case, The Series X was worse (with the Mega CD next) and if it was all about having the best launch lineup on day one and the right price in the USA. The DC would have been the best-selling console ever in the USA. There's far more to it all. I will say if you were in a shop, looking at the horrible black Saturn (that showed up dust all the time) playing Daytona USA compared to the nice Grey PS playing RR/Wipeout it was a straightforward sale to the PS, Daytona USA graphics were bad and really hurt the Saturn imagine and rep with gamers IMO.


    The PS had a nice launch lineup and had games that really showed off the hardware and was a clean break from the 16-bit past, which so many people were getting bored of. Talk to mates, you go in the shops (both retail and import) and so many of us had had enough of the 2D games we grew up with, since the ZX Spectrum days and just dreamed of 3D from the Arcades in the home.


    Trying to treat people like mugs (we can offer the full 32 Bit experience for a small price) and hang on the 16 MegaDrive market with the 32X was a fatal mistake
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
    one of the best 3D shooting games available
    Presented for your pleasure

  7. #82
    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Wales, UK
    Posts
    7,048
    Rep Power
    80

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gryson View Post
    I think this comes from an interview with Scott Bayless, where he claims they were all caught off guard by the Saturn's release in Japan.
    .
    It started on the likes of here, Gryson and let's not go there.

    The Scott Bayless interview he's talking about the actual launch date in Japan, not being surprised at the system or its tech specs, SOA was fully aware of the Saturn early in. The issue was with the changes to the Twin SH-2 would the Saturn hit its 1994 date, well after April 1994 or more so June 1994, would be in no doubt it was going to hit its date and his own words the 32X should have been killed off in 'Spring 1994'. I would have killed the 32X and the MD before then myself.

    In keeping with dates. I bet SEGA's plan all along was to go early as possible on the Saturn in the WEST. SEGA would have seen SGI tech and have a rough idea on when it silicon would be ready to go and armed with that would roughly know a 'possible' date for the then Ultra 64 date. Going early against Nintendo worked wonders for SEGA in the West with the MD and I bet that was plan for the Saturn Vs the Ultra 64.

    I think the 32X killed SEGA myself.


    Anyway here's the feature for those that care















    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
    one of the best 3D shooting games available
    Presented for your pleasure

  8. #83
    Master of Shinobi
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,626
    Rep Power
    35

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    Some people act like all hardware launches other than the Saturn, we all amazing , when that's not the case, The Series X was worse (with the Mega CD next) and if it was all about having the best launch lineup on day one and the right price in the USA. The DC would have been the best-selling console ever in the USA. There's far more to it all. I will say if you were in a shop, looking at the horrible black Saturn (that showed up dust all the time) playing Daytona USA compared to the nice Grey PS playing RR/Wipeout it was a straightforward sale to the PS, Daytona USA graphics were bad and really hurt the Saturn imagine and rep with gamers IMO.

    The PS had a nice launch lineup and had games that really showed off the hardware and was a clean break from the 16-bit past, which so many people were getting bored of. Talk to mates, you go in the shops (both retail and import) and so many of us had had enough of the 2D games we grew up with, since the ZX Spectrum days and just dreamed of 3D from the Arcades in the home.

    Trying to treat people like mugs (we can offer the full 32 Bit experience for a small price) and hang on the 16 MegaDrive market with the 32X was a fatal mistake
    Oh that's right. You guys had Wipeout at launch. That would have impressed me more than any launch title we had in North America. I definitely wasn't getting bored of 16-bit though. I'll still take a good 4th gen title from 1994/1995 over almost any early 5th gen game, many of which feel more like tech demos in retrospect.

    If I had to pick one console for worst launch of all time it would be the Wii U. Prior to launch the impression was that the hardware was underpowered and the controller a ridiculous gimmick, both of which were confirmed on day one. It sold more than the Saturn but considering it was released on the heels of Nintendo's two most popular consoles and received a bunch of AAA exclusives I consider it an even bigger failure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    I think the 32X killed SEGA myself.
    In the long run, I agree. It took resources away from Saturn development at the worst possible time so they ended up with two systems featuring rushed games that didn't show the full capabilities of the hardware, in addition to harming consumer confidence.

  9. #84
    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Wales, UK
    Posts
    7,048
    Rep Power
    80

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by axel View Post

    If I had to pick one console for worst launch of all time it would be the Wii U. Prior to launch the impression was that the hardware was underpowered and the controller a ridiculous gimmick, both of which were confirmed on day one. It sold more than the Saturn but considering it was released on the heels of Nintendo's two most popular consoles and received a bunch of AAA exclusives I consider it an even bigger failure.
    I agree, even worse was the Switch launch lineup, other than a simple Wii U Port not much there and yet it went on to sell millions

    Oh that's right. You guys had Wipeout at launch. That would have impressed me more than any launch title we had in North America. I definitely wasn't getting bored of 16-bit though.
    It would depend on your age, but most of my mates and the main gamers, I knew or the ones in the Import shop had all grown up on the 8-Bit consoles or Microcomputers, where 2D by 1994 was getting a bit long in the tooth and you were going to the Arcades and seeing amazing 3D graphics coming out more and 2D looked old hat. Even though I say Street Fighter 2 was a much better game, when VF came out it made the game look old and past it.


    Too many MD and Snes games were all the same right to left scrolling 2D game and it was getting a little stale, even Mode 7 was getting boring by 1994. The 3DO gave a glimpse of the future for home consoles, most of the people I knew couldn't wait for the next gen.

    In the long run, I agree. It took resources away from Saturn development at the worst possible time so they ended up with two systems featuring rushed games that didn't show the full capabilities of the hardware, in addition to harming consumer confidence.
    Agreed and I bet it never helped with the supply development kits, given both need Twin SH-2's, but the worst part was it put SEGA fans against each other... The Saturn camp or the 32X camp, which do you back with your money? and the same for the developers do you back the Saturn camp or the 32X camp? It was sheer madness from the start, along with not having the Sonic Team make a Sonic game.


    I feel SEGA West were just too fixated and worried over price and thought Price alone would win the battle for the 1st two years or so
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
    one of the best 3D shooting games available
    Presented for your pleasure

  10. #85
    The Future is Yesterday Hedgehog-in-TrainingESWAT Veteran Leynos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    1999
    Posts
    6,062
    Rep Power
    78

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by axel View Post
    Oh that's right. You guys had Wipeout at launch. That would have impressed me more than any launch title we had in North America. I definitely wasn't getting bored of 16-bit though. I'll still take a good 4th gen title from 1994/1995 over almost any early 5th gen game, many of which feel more like tech demos in retrospect.

    If I had to pick one console for worst launch of all time it would be the Wii U. Prior to launch the impression was that the hardware was underpowered and the controller a ridiculous gimmick, both of which were confirmed on day one. It sold more than the Saturn but considering it was released on the heels of Nintendo's two most popular consoles and received a bunch of AAA exclusives I consider it an even bigger failure.



    In the long run, I agree. It took resources away from Saturn development at the worst possible time so they ended up with two systems featuring rushed games that didn't show the full capabilities of the hardware, in addition to harming consumer confidence.
    lol yeah, Wii U's only real exclusive at launch was Zombi U but its best game at launch was the Wii U version of Tekken Tag 2 which is the best version of the game. Switch launch was pretty bare outside of BOTW. It took a year of patches before Bomberman R was worth it.

    Series X has the worst launch lineup of all time tho. It had nothing. Zilch. No launch games lol. PS4s was awful aside from Resogun and PS5's all it had was a remake of a PS3 game. But modern systems have proven launch games don't matter as much as they used to with the exception of BOTW.

    Life?!...What console is that on?

    [PSN] Segata-S //[Switch] FC-SW 3892 5228 2895 //[XBL]Dogi99

    Remake Geist Force!


  11. #86
    Master of Shinobi
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,626
    Rep Power
    35

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    I agree, even worse was the Switch launch lineup, other than a simple Wii U Port not much there and yet it went on to sell millions
    I suppose that's one way to describe Breath of the Wild
    Any way you look at it the game was an enormous success. Reviews were nearly unanimous in praising the gameplay and it sold very well.
    It was just the killer app the Switch needed in its early days.

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    It would depend on your age, but most of my mates and the main gamers, I knew or the ones in the Import shop had all grown up on the 8-Bit consoles or Microcomputers, where 2D by 1994 was getting a bit long in the tooth and you were going to the Arcades and seeing amazing 3D graphics coming out more and 2D looked old hat. Even though I say Street Fighter 2 was a much better game, when VF came out it made the game look old and past it.
    It depends on people's tastes. Samurai Shodown II had just come out for Neo Geo, a game with beautiful, hand drawn pixel art.... versus the blocky characters of Saturn Virtua Fighter. For the life of me I could not see how this was supposed to represent an improvement.

  12. #87
    Mega Driver Hedgehog-in-TrainingMaster of Shinobi Gryson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    1,544
    Rep Power
    73

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by axel View Post
    It depends on people's tastes. Samurai Shodown II had just come out for Neo Geo, a game with beautiful, hand drawn pixel art.... versus the blocky characters of Saturn Virtua Fighter. For the life of me I could not see how this was supposed to represent an improvement.
    Did you see Virtua Fighter in motion? I guess I could see someone not thinking it's an improvement if you just see it in a magazine, but seriously:



    The animation is so gorgeous! So smooth and fluid compared to sprite graphics. In motion, I don't get a sense of blockiness - it really looks like a good approximation of two realistic figures fighting.

    I find it a bit hard to imagine anyone seeing that in 1993 and dismissing it as "ugh, blockiness". I really think it's one of the greatest and most influential leaps in video game graphics ever made. And it came out just two years after Street Fighter II.

  13. #88
    The Future is Yesterday Hedgehog-in-TrainingESWAT Veteran Leynos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    1999
    Posts
    6,062
    Rep Power
    78

    Default

    Anytime I was in the mall downtown the Food Court was right next to the Arcade. I'd usually try everything they had but around 1995 when they got a VF2 machine it was my first exposure to VF at the time and was pretty blown away at how it looked, So I kept riding the bus downtown. That 30-minute ride was worth it to play some VF2. Mainly because of the era I didn't appreciate pixel art as I can now. Just as a kid. 3D=Better no matter what.

    Life?!...What console is that on?

    [PSN] Segata-S //[Switch] FC-SW 3892 5228 2895 //[XBL]Dogi99

    Remake Geist Force!


  14. #89
    Death Bringer ESWAT Veteran Black_Tiger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Vancouver
    Age
    45
    Posts
    5,125
    Rep Power
    123

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gryson View Post
    Did you see Virtua Fighter in motion? I guess I could see someone not thinking it's an improvement if you just see it in a magazine, but seriously:



    The animation is so gorgeous! So smooth and fluid compared to sprite graphics. In motion, I don't get a sense of blockiness - it really looks like a good approximation of two realistic figures fighting.

    I find it a bit hard to imagine anyone seeing that in 1993 and dismissing it as "ugh, blockiness". I really think it's one of the greatest and most influential leaps in video game graphics ever made. And it came out just two years after Street Fighter II.
    At the time and to this day I don't understand how Tekken didn't die out quickly with the first game, based on the terrible animation alone. I think that the rest of the visuals were gross, but I understand how so many were duped by early cgi garbage.

    But the animation made it look like a cheap cash grab by a small developer. Some of the ridiculous models don't help.

    Virtua Fighter Remix was released for STV in April 1995. SOA should have been negotiating with SOJ to get a home version asap and packed it in with every Saturn from the early launch onward. During the Playstation launch they should have ran ads with side by side comparisons of VFR and Tekken.
    Quote Originally Posted by year2kill06
    everyone knows nintendo is far way cooler than sega just face it nintendo has more better games and originals

  15. #90
    End of line.. Shining Hero gamevet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Dallas, Texas
    Posts
    10,181
    Rep Power
    141

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Leynos View Post
    lol yeah, Wii U's only real exclusive at launch was Zombi U but its best game at launch was the Wii U version of Tekken Tag 2 which is the best version of the game. Switch launch was pretty bare outside of BOTW. It took a year of patches before Bomberman R was worth it.

    Series X has the worst launch lineup of all time tho. It had nothing. Zilch. No launch games lol. PS4s was awful aside from Resogun and PS5's all it had was a remake of a PS3 game. But modern systems have proven launch games don't matter as much as they used to with the exception of BOTW.
    I'd have to say that the Jaguar, 3DS, 3DO and Turbo Grafx-16 and had much worse titles at launch.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •